Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[TheBGreene]

We were allready wanred that this Coffee with the Devs article wouldn't hold anything we didn;t know, so not surprised by any of it.

Still have my butt clenched for the inevitable nerfs though. >.<

I sit here and wonder what else there is to nerf...then I get nervous they will just nerf things that do not need it.

[Deleted]

If Incin / Conflag / Chaos bolt / Shadowburn / Immolate all had there spell co efficients ramped up by about 20% we would actually be in a fine spot number wise, the problem then is that the spec is actually quite mind numbing ;p

You cant change the co efficients of certain spells to much without throwing the balance of the spec off, this is incredibly noticed in pvp where conflag can do the same damage as chaos bolt already.

[Hatelocker]

I do agree destro could use a proc or something else to spice it up a bit (hopefully that comes in 6.0 because its too late for 5.4). However, I don't think adding RoF into the single target was the spice it needed.

[TheBGreene]

I do agree destro could use a proc or something else to spice it up a bit (hopefully that comes in 6.0 because its too late for 5.4). However, I don't think adding RoF into the single target was the spice it needed.

I agree, I do not think that was what was needed at all. I think something along the lines of some kind of CB proc for extra dmg on it in a small time window or something would be cool. Anything to make the spec more reactive and exciting. As Ajay states above you, removing RoF from the ST rotation makes is even that more mind numbing.

[Gohzerlock]

I agree, I do not think that was what was needed at all. I think something along the lines of some kind of CB proc for extra dmg on it in a small time window or something would be cool. Anything to make the spec more reactive and exciting. As Ajay states above you, removing RoF from the ST rotation makes is even that more mind numbing.

A reticule aoe spell on single target wasn't that spice the spec needed to be more engaging.

Make haste lower the cd of conflag, immolate to be a stacking debuff like agony (stacks increased by backdrafted incin casts), increase crit for backdraft charges and not cast time OR heaven forbid a chaos bolt proc... ANYTHING, geez I wish they'd listen to peoples ideas. The reaction seems to be "hand up in the air, can't do anything until expac time beyond number tuning sorry your spec is clunky live with it.

[Dumaw]

and there will be no ember regen compensation for the RoF nerf...

[Hatelocker]

and there will be no ember regen compensation for the RoF nerf...

It's still too early to tell. I had been hoping for the first tuning ptr patch today but it looks like it may not happen. If they don't buff destro in some form (they either make our stuff hit REALLY hard (the cries in pvp would be fun but seems unlikely) or they can give us more embers and a small spell coefficient buff) its going to be a dead spec next tier and not by just the 1% less dps spread blizz complains about.

[pokeadott]

Kind of a weird thought, but from a pvp standpoint only I'm kinda hoping they decide to just buff Incin or Conflag coefs. With the KC change + the -25% pvp CB damage adjust + loss of RoF embers, I think I just won't bother casting many (any?) CBs in arenas. I'll probably just save embers for heals/burns and live off incin/FF spam.

Glyphed Havok + DS/Procs is already some nice pressure - boosts to our fillers will just make that stronger.

[Deleted]

For Destro to be balanced just thanks to Inci & Conflag coefs (with the added nerf to RoF embers + MF), it would take huuuge buffs. I'm pretty pessimistic.

[Werst]

Problem with destro buffs is that the spec needs significantly bigger coef on its ember generator spells (conflag/incin/immo/maybe FF) but to do so means ember spenders have to be significantly better than ember generators. PVE that isn't so much of an issue but it makes for a pvp nightmare. Devs have already shown a prejudicial bias against destro having burst in pvp when any empirical measurement of ranged burst dmg shows destro clearly lacking. (eg ele/mage/etc) Also with so few spells in the arsenal there are only so many places to put damage back in.

I think better fixes are to work some mechanics like having backdraft have a minor glyph to swap its 30% haste bonus for a 30% crit bonus, let conflag's recharge scale with haste, and maybe making a proc similar to fulmination/instant aimed shot where you can get a shadowburn at any HP level that doesn't consume embers. PVP is another ball of issues but suffice to say if CB has a subjective soft cap for how hard its permitted to hit someone it needs to be more frequently used and far more reliable/easy to use in pvp.

I like destro in some ways in that it lets new players get into locks which the other specs certainly are not as user friendly. It also has more finesse about when to use what than just having a plethora of buttons to define its skill.

[Dumaw]

It's still too early to tell. I had been hoping for the first tuning ptr patch today but it looks like it may not happen. If they don't buff destro in some form (they either make our stuff hit REALLY hard (the cries in pvp would be fun but seems unlikely) or they can give us more embers and a small spell coefficient buff) its going to be a dead spec next tier and not by just the 1% less dps spread blizz complains about.

I twitted holinka about the RoF ember regen and he replied "It gives you almost unlimited embers on live"

I don't think he has intentions to compensate it.

[Gohzerlock]

I twitted holinka about the RoF ember regen and he replied "It gives you almost unlimited embers on live"

I don't think he has intentions to compensate it.

*cough* unless it's single target

[Ectothrix]

I think they hate us warlocks.

[Jetjaguar]

If they hated us we wouldn't be vastly more powerful than every other class not named mage on PTR

[Saferis]

I think they should leave the RoF ember generation rate where it is, but make it that it needs at least 3+ targets to come into effect. That will prevent it from being used single target.

A cool proc for destro would be something like: Your incinerate hits have a chance to make your next Shadowburn usable over 20% hp and not cost any burning embers. Similar to the warrior tier bonus for execute. With RoF removed from single target, destro needs something else to spice up it's damage just a bit.

[Brusalk]

I think they should leave the RoF ember generation rate where it is, but make it that it needs at least 3+ targets to come into effect. That will prevent it from being used single target.

A cool proc for destro would be something like: Your incinerate hits have a chance to make your next Shadowburn usable over 20% hp and not cost any burning embers. Similar to the warrior tier bonus for execute. With RoF removed from single target, destro needs something else to spice up it's damage just a bit.

A 2 target requirement would be better as (supposedly) that's what Destro should be good at. (Never mind that it's actually worse than Demo and Aff at it....)

That proc would be somewhat nice. It should definitely stack to 3 and give you roughly 3 procs per 25 seconds though. (*cough*)

[PickleballAce]

The topic of Destro procs came up during the MoP Beta and a free Shadowburn was one of the suggestions, maybe even as a non-crit only. Xelnath countered that Shadowburn would likely have to be toned down if it were a non-execute proc as well, but with Destro's issues I'm not even sure Shadowburn's damage would be much of a concern anymore. I love Destro but it really needs something to spice life up a little bit without RoF. I like the idea of giving Shadowburn some use other than basically just a Chaos Bolt replacement under 20pct.

I think the RoF generating embers when striking X number of targets was tweeted a few times to Ghostcrawler, but it's probably worth bringing up again. Keeps it out of single target without punishing cleave and AoE situations.

[Lethl]

A cool proc for destro would be something like: Your incinerate hits have a chance to make your next Shadowburn usable over 20% hp and not cost any burning embers. Similar to the warrior tier bonus for execute. With RoF removed from single target, destro needs something else to spice up it's damage just a bit.

Would probably be way too good for pvp with a shadowburn proc like that, but i always felt that Soul Fire belong to Destro, been there since vanilla. I felt kinda sad when they removed it from destruction. A Soul Fire proc is something i want, as there is so few abilities (dps wise) available live for destruction. Buffing Incinerate and Conflagrate would be bad for the balance of the specc it self. They already hit for alot for fillers. And its hard to balance everything around immolate, inc and conflagrate, without making them to heavy hitters.

[pokeadott]

A few people in this thread remember, but for those that didn't see it, locks have been bitching about Destro needing some proc/etc love waaaaaaaaay back in MoP beta. We received approximately 0 feedback on those numerous threads/posts in the beta forums. The only reason that topic hasn't been continued further is the emergence of Rain of Fire.

I'd like to think of this as an opportunity to see some changes, but sadly, if bliz's lack of previous response is any indication, they are completely content with our 'rotation'.


PS - from the main page GC interview: Valor Points will not be converted to Justice Points for Patch 5.4. "Players who want to stockpile their 3,000 Valor before Patch 5.4 hits will be able to do that, and probably should start thinking about that." Signals the patch isn't too far off (not shocking), so we probably won't see anything new to our rotation any time soon.

[Zevoa]

Is the procing of Chaos Wave, rather then Hand of Gul'dan, from the 4pc bonus while in Metamorphosis intended?