Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Xorn]

its dog shit. Let your fellow raiders enjoy their 4pc, get 2pc and be happy.

Yeah. Here's the thing. A lot of people have been speculating that it will be "dog shit," yet there aren't any numbers to back that up. I can see where that is probably true for Affliction, but Demo doesn't sound completely terrible as long as the bugs are worked out.

My advice is to reserve judgment until we have a definitive answer via simcraft.

[Jetjaguar]

I'm more concerned about 4pc on multi target fights rather than single target. Lately I've been using 90% of my shards on PTR on haunt since the new Soul Swap so 4pc proccing off rolling haunts on multiple targets might be nice depending on how strong it is multi target

[a C e]

Atleast, are we mid high on dps rankings on most fights in SoO??

[Zevoa]

My advice is to reserve judgment until we have a definitive answer via simcraft.

LOL! 10chars

Infracted for minor spam

[Deleted]

What is the current consensus regarding the imp swarm glyph? On live the imps did nice damage when under dark soul, and were vital to maintaining fury and molten core stacks on the pull, but I'm interested how the changes to rppm and duration of wush/hydra will change that. Especially if we have trinkets that most likely won't proc straight away.

[sasofrass]

What is the current consensus regarding the imp swarm glyph? On live the imps did nice damage when under dark soul, and were vital to maintaining fury and molten core stacks on the pull, but I'm interested how the changes to rppm and duration of wush/hydra will change that. Especially if we have trinkets that most likely won't proc straight away.

I haven't done any math to go with what I'm about to say, but I assume because you only spawn 4 imps and the cooldown remains the same that it will be a DPS loss to use the glyph unless you need to burst something down.

[Deleted]

I haven't done any math to go with what I'm about to say, but I assume because you only spawn 4 imps and the cooldown remains the same that it will be a DPS loss to use the glyph unless you need to burst something down.

i assume that when you say "the coolddown remains the same" that the cooldown is still reduced by haste, atleast thats how it is on the ptr.

also, from what ive read, the imp swarm will still be a dps buff, just a lot less compared to live, as on live there really wasnt any way you could use imp swarm without it being a dps boost, on the ptr, you'd pretty much have to line it up with dark soul or its a dps loss.

[Deleted]

Yeah I should have clarified that I'm aware that it now only provides 4 imps, just trying to work out specific situations where it will be worth it.

When trinkets will still proc on the pull, say for example wush or the amp or even timeless isle, and whilst we're still using 2 pc t15, I would presume the extra fury and molten core procs would be much sought after. But once we transition back to using ToC more during meta (and especially on the pull, where we might not have stuff proc) it won't be worth it.

Like you said, I guess the tradeoff is burst vs sustained, but my main question lies in how much it will gimp our opening burst if we drop the glyph in situations where we will still dark soul on the pull.

P.s. sorry if this comes across a bit incoherent, on my phone and it's hard to edit large paragraphs!

[Werst]

Just screwing around on dummies I'm actually seeing no glyph demo doing a bit better than with the glyph. Especially with an aff haste/mastery setup. That said I'd use the glyph on fights with intense burn phases. I also think professions will make a difference...ie eng+herb might favor glyph use while a pair of passive 320 int professions will favor going glyphless. Amp almost always procs in the first few spells but I think the days of 600K+ demo openers are gone. Aff however opens really hard. I was testing w' 5xT16 though I wouldn't pursue the set bonus beyond the 2pc/soulfire buff. Aff I'd forget sets completely and just find the highest ilvl haste/mastery piece I could get.

Demo still gets less from KTT and cleave trinkets due to imps not functioning with those trinkets (nor the amp's crit bonus). Timeless is a fine trinket to pair with amp but we really have no heroic equivalent. Then again aff can't get its hands on a heroic BBoY till progression is done.

Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....

[Xanatas]

for PVP "new" soul link+lesser healing is a very good talent... HOT baseline is great...

but "new" soul link is cancelled if the demon is banished?

[Deleted]

Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....

its kinda sad that destro is in such a bad spot single target wise, i like the spec better than demo but with destro being so bad, there is really no point in speccing destro at all. they really need to give it some much needed love or it will only be used on niche fights. there are so many ways of buffing destro's single target dps without it buffing its aoe.

[Schma]

Anyone play on the ptr this weekend and have some warlock thoughts? target dummy 'tests' mean absolutely nothing. Glyph of havoc gives us 2 chaos bolts I can confirm (i was dreaming 3, too good to be true).. will try out destruction vs affliction on flex tonight a few times.

[Xorn]

LOL! 10chars

I know, right? How dare I suggest we get some actual numbers before deciding whether it will be viable or not?

But thank you so much for your insightful, in depth, and constructive feedback!

[Jessicka]

I know, right? How dare I suggest we get some actual numbers before deciding whether it will be viable or not?

But thank you so much for your insightful, in depth, and constructive feedback!

"Actual numbers" from a sim that's been pretty poor for all three specs this entire expansion?

[Nicola]

for PVP "new" soul link+lesser healing is a very good talent... HOT baseline is great...

but "new" soul link is cancelled if the demon is banished?

Not sure about the healing, but the damage reduction will be removed while your demon is banished or cycloned.

[Deleted]

Not sure about the healing, but the damage reduction will be removed while your demon is banished or cycloned.

it doesnt technically say, but i assume that you're correct.

[Xanatas]

Not sure about the healing, but the damage reduction will be removed while your demon is banished or cycloned.

tnx for the info

[bugzilla3]

For destro, is Sac going to be viable or are we just going to have to use Sup?

[Deleted]

For destro, is Sac going to be viable or are we just going to have to use Sup?

doesnt really matter atm as you'd be better off playing pretty much any other spec but afaik GoSac has only changed for afflic, so it should be about as viable as it is on live.

[Kagecamia]

Just screwing around on dummies I'm actually seeing no glyph demo doing a bit better than with the glyph. Especially with an aff haste/mastery setup. That said I'd use the glyph on fights with intense burn phases. I also think professions will make a difference...ie eng+herb might favor glyph use while a pair of passive 320 int professions will favor going glyphless. Amp almost always procs in the first few spells but I think the days of 600K+ demo openers are gone. Aff however opens really hard. I was testing w' 5xT16 though I wouldn't pursue the set bonus beyond the 2pc/soulfire buff. Aff I'd forget sets completely and just find the highest ilvl haste/mastery piece I could get.

Demo still gets less from KTT and cleave trinkets due to imps not functioning with those trinkets (nor the amp's crit bonus). Timeless is a fine trinket to pair with amp but we really have no heroic equivalent. Then again aff can't get its hands on a heroic BBoY till progression is done.

Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....

With the loss of UVLS, how is demo doing on the fights? What about affliction? Are they top ranking specs or are we going to be middle of the pack this tier?