Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Deleted]

To add something to the AV discussion, a few of you may not be aware of the changes to Vengeance on the PTR. Void Zones and generally avoidable damage no longer grants Vengeance. If they did that for Vengeance, they're obviously going to do it for AV.

Yeah I guess they are taking advantage of the new system they created for Tanks' Vengeance.

[Shadowygoodness]

To add something to the AV discussion, a few of you may not be aware of the changes to Vengeance on the PTR. Void Zones and generally avoidable damage no longer grants Vengeance. If they did that for Vengeance, they're obviously going to do it for AV.

Which in PvE makes me wonder what damage is in fact suppose to be a gain with the exception of having an add beat on you an entire encounter -simply unavoidable aoe, debuffs and the occasional mechanic where a boss targets random players for damage?

[God8010]

The new swap allows you to inhale dots and exhale dots the same as the glyph on live currently does but without a cooldown, so you will only need 1 shard for instant dots and then simply go about inhaling and exhaling.

If that's the case then I understand the filler nerf. We'll be able to multidot more than 4 targets before the first start to fall off again due to no shards. hit the first set, get all trinket, proc, pots lined up. tag the next ten with that snap-shot set. Might even be better than the filler now, cept on any single target boss, like always.

[Zargul]

Which in PvE makes me wonder what damage is in fact suppose to be a gain with the exception of having an add beat on you an entire encounter -simply unavoidable aoe, debuffs and the occasional mechanic where a boss targets random players for damage?

Your pet's incoming damage is included in the new AV mechanic, and pets take 90% reduced damage from area attacks. You could have your pet hold position in front of a boss's breath weapon or just soak up all of his whirlwinds/novas/cleaves etc while on auto-attack from behind. Also, if your pet is tanking something, free spell power.

[Count Zero]

So, I just hopped on PTR (new patch is up), and tested AV: I popped Sac Pact and engaged a mob, and I did gain SP from AV before my shield broke.

There you go.

Dammit, just noticed I'd forgotten to put my pet on passive, so it may have been attacking it. Retesting with no pet and Dark Bargain

edit/update 2:

Very interesting ... with Dark Bargain and my pet dismissed, I gained no AV while DB was up. However, a void zone the mob left behind did refresh my AV buff ... it was hard to tell if it was actually contributing to it because there was continual decay of the spellpower bonus ... it seems like they just literally copy/pasted Vengeance for now.

edit 3:

Sac Pact w/o pet was granting the buff while the absorb held. I guess flat-out immunities just don't count. I couldn't replicate the buff decay (I swear it was just slowly going down), but the void zone is in fact adding to the buff.

[Deleted]

I feel like we will test AV the first week (or on PTR) on every fights, and then just take it on the fights it is overpowered and forget about it.
It might be fun to sync with resources / buffs on big damage phases though.

[Dr. Wuky]

AV works EXACTLY like tank vengeance atm: http://i.imgur.com/zt6ru9v.jpg (warlock is fine!)

[Arganis]

wow, you guys sure can argue about the dumbest shit... Only thing that's really relevant in 5.4 is the end of KJC. Now that's something to bitch and argue about.

[Deleted]

wow, you guys sure can argue about the dumbest shit... Only thing that's really relevant in 5.4 is the end of KJC. Now that's something to bitch and argue about.

Or to be happy something like positioning is finally back to the gameplay?

[Arganis]

Or to be happy something like positioning is finally back to the gameplay?

Sorry I'm not one of those people that like to be flagellated.

[Szarala]

AV works EXACTLY like tank vengeance atm: http://i.imgur.com/zt6ru9v.jpg (warlock is fine!)

so question... is it a rolling buff (like Soul Leech)?

[Tweet this]

My main issue with the changes (assuming av is going to be shit still) isssssss that i cant cast soul fire on the move in demo form u should be able to at LEAST

- - - Updated - - -

Or to be happy something like positioning is finally back to the gameplay?

Then they need to give range the old advantage again. Theres so much stuff goin on in todays encounters positioning is erratic

[Deleted]

wow, you guys sure can argue about the dumbest shit... Only thing that's really relevant in 5.4 is the end of KJC. Now that's something to bitch and argue about.

How is it the end of KJC?

Afflictions fine.
Demonology is fine.
Destro will have some issues with chaosbolt, but by the sound of it - we'll be casting less of them next tier due to the ember nerf from ROF / GC hinting at compensating us in ways other than ember gen.

If anything, it's arguably buffed since the snare is gone, breaks even at worst. We've also had a length thread to lament KJC prior to them giving it back for filler as a passive, so I think everyones got it out of their system without starting it up again.

My main issue with the changes (assuming av is going to be shit still) isssssss that i cant cast soul fire on the move in demo form u should be able to at LEAST

Demo is mobile enough as is.

KJC is supposed to be a movement buff, not removing all penalty for movement ever while allowing you to cast anything you want. Yes, shock horror, there may be times where you need to use a suboptimal spell while moving! While it may not be the optimal soulfire / drain soul / chaos bolt, be grateful that's going to be incin / MG / shadowbolt / TOC instead of fel flame or nothing.

[Tweet this]

How is it the end of KJC?

Afflictions fine.
Demonology is fine.
Destro will have some issues with chaosbolt, but by the sound of it - we'll be casting less of them next tier due to the ember nerf from ROF / GC hinting at compensating us in ways other than ember gen.

If anything, it's arguably buffed since the snare is gone, breaks even at worst. We've also had a length thread to lament KJC prior to them giving it back for filler as a passive, so I think everyones got it out of their system without starting it up again.

Ya but demo soulfire and av is good everyone will take av

1000%

[Count Zero]

so question... is it a rolling buff (like Soul Leech)?

Yes -- new damage refreshes the duration and increases the SP buff

edit/update:

Also, in case anyone was wondering ... it is a passive-only effect. There is no active portion, currently.

[Deleted]

Does AV have a cap?

[Shadowygoodness]

Ya but demo soulfire and av is good everyone will take av

1000%

AV will only be taken in serious PvE if it actually gives back a decent amount of spellpower throughout an encounter, and that's really only gonna happen if you are taking some sort of qualifiable damage within 20s periods; otherwise, the vengeance spellpower will just fall off and start from scratch and ultimately be useless.

The only thing I really see AV being useful for at this point is soloing rares and old content.

Does AV have a cap?

Probably caps at your health, since it seems to be a cut and paste of tank vengeance.

[Xploit]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9453685514#20

Archimonde's Vengeance has been further adjusted, as you'll see in a forthcoming PTR build. We agree with the general concern about incentivizing a pure DPS class to seek out sources of damage and make healers' lives harder in exchange for a damage boost. Even though we can filter out "standing in the fire," so to speak, and plan to do so for tank Vengeance as well, there are plenty of cases that can't be easily handled (e.g. Lei Shen's Thunderstruck, which isn't really avoidable damage, but where a warlock with the current PTR Archimonde's might find it optimal to stand just close enough that they barely survive it, rather than properly trying to get far away).

The current plan is a replacement that will make Demon Soul significantly more potent, though, of course, that is subject to change, it being PTR and all.

Thank fuck. Current iteration of AV on PTR is completely retarded.

[Deleted]

Really happy about the change.

I hate the idea of having to try and take damage to maximise performance.

[Shadowygoodness]

Something to make DS better? Holy hell, what did we do to get so lucky?