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  1. #1
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    Destro Haste or Crit? (tier question)

    So I'm wondering why I'm seeing many top warlocks geared for mastery and haste with very little crit when all my sims ar putting me Mastery > Crit > Haste.

    Is it because these warlocks have four set? I'm wondering if the crit gained from the 4 set devalues crit and gives us better haste scaling or can I be shooting for these high haste marks with just 2 set?


    Also I've seen a few destro locks gemming expertise gems in orange sockets. Is this only on gear with no hit that has an intellect socket bonus?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    So I'm wondering why I'm seeing many top warlocks geared for mastery and haste with very little crit when all my sims ar putting me Mastery > Crit > Haste.

    Is it because these warlocks have four set? I'm wondering if the crit gained from the 4 set devalues crit and gives us better haste scaling or can I be shooting for these high haste marks with just 2 set?



    Also I've seen a few destro locks gemming expertise gems in orange sockets. Is this only on gear with no hit that has an intellect socket bonus?
    If there is burst AoE in the fight, its probably best to go mastery > haste > crit. Single target, probably mastery > crit > haste

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    Also I've seen a few destro locks gemming expertise gems in orange sockets. Is this only on gear with no hit that has an intellect socket bonus?
    Getting to 5100 hit rating is mandatory. If you are not at hit cap, you can reforge to hit/expertise or gem for hit/expertise.
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  4. #4
    Secondaries are worth more than int, so if you can gem / reforge expertise in spots while not going over hit cap its better than raw int.

    Haste has a smoother ember generation increase than crit (though crit *could* generate more but its all RNG). Haste also makes it easier to game procs by fitting more spells into them etc which is pretty freaking huge with how strong procs are these days.

  5. #5
    actually you want as little haste as possible. go mastery >crit>haste.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Warlock-guide all explained in here. start reading for the more up to date info towards the back end of the posts.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    actually you want as little haste as possible. go mastery >crit>haste.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Warlock-guide all explained in here. start reading for the more up to date info towards the back end of the posts.
    So why do I see many top locks including sparkuggz, blatty etc going for as little crit as possible? The only explanation I can think of is the 4 set devaluing crit.

  7. #7
    My own gear setup makes it possible to hit as low as ~2k haste (I have mastery/crit or mastery/hit on nearly everything except the legendary, just how my luck turned). However, no sim I run beats out reforging Mastery > Haste > Crit. My best results come with 15k Mastery, ~6k Crit and ~5k Haste.

    I'm personally inclined to believe that Haste and Crit are more synergistic than one dominating the other. That's only based off my anecdotal results, so yours might vary, but forsaking all Crit or forsaking all Haste probably gives worse results than having a ratio between the two or having a certain value of Haste and Crit.
    My style is rich, dope, phat; in which we'll bake a cake today that looks rich.

  8. #8
    You may see the top locks with alot of haste, but idk if u have actually seen but they also have an affliction spec, and my guess is that they still play affliction and dont bother to reforge properly and just log out as destruction. the thing with all the haste is, it becomes bad when you are globaling yourself, and ultimately loosing dps. the problem with reforging like that means u cant swap between affliction and destruction.

    i personally go mastery > crit > haste, with my gear I am still sitting at like 5.2k haste

  9. #9
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    when i sim myself in my current gear, im getting crit and haste to have the same scale factors with mastery about 10% ahead of haste and crit(3.84 vs 4.18) so either way i cant really go wrong with any of those stats altho i dont have any tier 16 yet except legs, but personally, i would stack more crit but in my case its a personal preferance, but i think generally speaking it is mastery>crit>haste.

  10. #10
    I'd disagree about the global cap destro was so worried about before.

    With RoF as part of your single target rotation you were actually fairly rarely casting incinerate without backdraft as you were generating enough embers AND spending gcd's on RoF that this was possible. Now you quite frequently cast non-back draft incinerates due to generating embers at a much much slower pace. You also have a 15% chance per incinerate to generate additional embers, so the more you get out the more embers you flat AND rng gain as opposed to just rng gain from crit.

    I like zynx's take on it a lot, haste and crit are extremely close in value (I have a .1 difference in scaling per point)and overly favoring one or the other is probably not the healthiest solution. Realistically though all 3 stats are so insanely close in value that you could reforge / regem completely random and see pretty much the same single target dps. Mastery is just sooo much stronger for aoe / burst that it makes no sense not to stack it in a situation where all 3 stats are practically equal.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Secondaries are worth more than int,.
    Not a true statement. When it comes to gemming because of the 1 - 2 point values you get from mastery gems as opposed to intellect gems it is worth it, especially if you need to reach the 5100 hit cap. However when thinking of things like bracer enchants always go with intellect. As long as the values of the enchant/gem are equal intellect will always be more overall dps.

  12. #12
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    I don't know if someone has suggested it already. Best way to know what is after mastery is by using Simcrafts "Reforge Plot" option . When you are going to sim yourself (let's say for single target) go to reforge plot tab and click crit and haste (nothing else) and choose like 3-4 k rating with 100 pace . and the results will take some time to get BUT they are worth the time . trust me
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  13. #13
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    Don't listen to people that say crit is king. The jury is still out atm. Watch for Brusalk's new posts in his sticky, he is working it out right now. I am a haste advocate, in my gear, 13500 haste>mastery>>crit is siming the highest for me. Ilvl 556 with 4pc.

  14. #14
    It makes no sense to ever gear haste over mastery for actual raiding.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    So why do I see many top locks including sparkuggz, blatty etc going for as little crit as possible? The only explanation I can think of is the 4 set devaluing crit.
    Spark has been pro haste and negative towards crit since 5.3. Read the destro sticky here and ask your questions there.

  16. #16
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    Huh, nice to see all these pro-haste destro posts.

    I've been wanting to change my OS to destro since the demo nerfs / destro buffs, but figured my almost 100% haste + mastery gear would be problematic, guess I'll give it a shot and hope my huge haste values and complete lack of crit works out.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Huh, nice to see all these pro-haste destro posts.

    I've been wanting to change my OS to destro since the demo nerfs / destro buffs, but figured my almost 100% haste + mastery gear would be problematic, guess I'll give it a shot and hope my huge haste values and complete lack of crit works out.
    It'll work out, I honestly have not noticed any sort of difference in damage.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    Spark has been pro haste and negative towards crit since 5.3. Read the destro sticky here and ask your questions there.
    I think I'll ask my questions where I like thanks.

    Someone further up said "they have high haste for aff OS" but I very much doubt players of that caliber would switch specs without reforging between. At least on progress.

  19. #19
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    If your mainspec is affliction you usually want the mastery/haste gear and avoid the crit gear, which automatically leads to a less crit heavy destruction offspec. Besides that the difference between a full mastery/8k crit/4k haste and a full mastery/8k haste/4k crit destruction warlock is almost negligible on most fights. Since simcraft isnt able to take adds into account its quite different to exactly tell whats right or wrong.

    I would judge current reforge/spec combinations in the armory cautiously, most people dont care and do dailies/heroic scenarios etc. without reforging if they change their spec.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    I think I'll ask my questions where I like thanks.
    Why this forum is such a mess.

    On the very first page (after the stickies) we have two threads discussing AskMrRobot results, two threads about destro trinket choices, two threads about set bonuses, two threads about warlocks in 5.4. Nobody needs to actually read anything or educate themselves generally when everybody can just create a new thread for their specific question of the day.
    Last edited by zey; 2013-10-13 at 03:17 PM.

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