Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Deleted]

For those of you that haven't tried the "Demonic Breath" yet, let me be the first to say...it's terrible in its current state. Don't even try to compare it to shadowflame.
Flaws:
1. The range is only 10yrds and about 5 yrds wide
2. The spell itself doesn't move, it stays in the place it is cast. So basically if you are running and use it, It will spawn behind you and spray.
3. Latency is a massive cockblock with this. You can do a do an aerial 180 press it and will completely miss, even if the target is directly in it.
4. 50% slow is not enough. With so many passive melee slows being 50% or more, this is just not enough. Hell even when combined with Port and Glyphed Coex melee are right back on you.

Did some testing with my pally friend and tried hitting him while running, jumping, and even walking. It's really really hard to aim.

Can't say I really expected it to be a compelling choice, the main benefit was getting howl baseline, a 50% slow with it's aiming / range requirements isn't particularly useful considering the baseline slows available and the AOE stun / coil that it's competing with.

[Deleted]

well they should just remove kjc completely, make MG, drain soul and incinerate castable while moving and then put in a new ability in place of kjc, for example a talent that changes our life tap, sacrificing your pet's hp and granting you mana equal to your own "sacrificed hp", basically like the old demon pact(or whatever it was called) but granting you mana equal to 15% of your own hp and not the pet's.

[Deleted]

I'd change the talents to something like this:

AV: Causes an enemy to suffer 75% of all damage you take. Lasts 4 seconds. 1.5 min CD
KJC: Active: You can run while casting for 10 seconds. 50% movement speed increase. 1.5 min CD Passive: Malefic Grasp, Incinerate and Shadowbolt can now be cast while moving.
MF: Unchanged.

[Shauni]

This is a cross post from the official FR forums. Can't post on the US forums (yeah, the one that are actually listened to) so I need your help
/conspiracytheory

We will survive the disappearance of "casting while moving"
We must admit we were a little bit over the top when it comes to DPS. One must be pretty biased to deny it.

I'm gonna speak as an affliction PVE warlock.

Our DPS mainly comes from Malefic Grasp (MG). Our DOTS were purposely neutered for PVP purposes so only MG-channeling makes our DPS worthwhile. Too worthwhile. So losing our ability to cast while running impact us greatly. One could say that all casters are impacted the same way, the main difference is that BECAUSE this talent exists, the theoretical Affliction DPS is calculated with that in mind when raids are designed.

I mean, nobody at blizzard could not have seen that every affliction warlock will take it.
Mannoroth ? With our lackluster AOE ?
Archimonde ? With the fact that warlock is the best class when it comes to... Not taking any damage ?

Without this talent, our DPS suffers greatly more than the DPS of any other ranged DPS (not mentioning hunters)

I am not again a KJC-nerf. Right now it's overpowered. I'm just saying we need a compensation elsewhere.

About haunt being castable while moving, it's NOT a good idea. Affliction 101 says that we must cast haunt WHEN our dots are supercharged AND we can channel MG for the whole duration of the debuff. During movement, cast haunt without being able to cast MG behind is a DPS loss. Like casting haunt then MG but stop-cast to avoid something. Same DPS loss.
Casting haunt while moving is NOT an answer. At best it's a band-aid with 50% chance to infect the wound.

But at last, what I don't accept, is the sacrifice of fun for balancing. Blizzard, with this nerf, is not only killing our DPS, it's killing our way of life. We are ACCUSTOMED to cast while running, we are ACCUSTOMED to react quickly. We are ACCUSTOMED to not being like every other caster in game.

People can cry about being FotM, people can mock our habit of being different, of feeling special and having fun of it. But in the end, isn't it what make this game great ? Having fun ?

I'm speaking to the developers. Give this ability to everyone. With penalty, with restriction, that's just common sense, but please, just try it.
We, warlocks, have discovered that pleasure and we LOVED it. Players WILL love it and it allows your design team to come up with GREAT encounters ideas.

The old "Turret-Mode" is a thing of the past, we must move forward !
I know many non-warlock will mock us, saying we shouldn't complain because blizz took from us something that should never have been given to us in the first place. that we are nothing but brats and spoiled children, but know this :

Casting while moving is FUN. Overpowered as it is, so I'm not arguing against a nerf, but fun.

Everyone should want it, like the shaman's lightning, like the hunt's abilities. We want fun.

PS : oh, about Mannoroth being a trinket...Plz me do not want !

[Deleted]

The old "Turret-Mode" is a thing of the past, we must move forward !

I'd be fine having the old turret-mode back if we were able to pull it off, the problem is we can't really perform that role at the moment, nor can we perform the slippery-caster that mages are.

[Shauni]

That's why I said that we need a compensation. Even if they remove KJC completely we must be buffed elsewhere.

[Deleted]

I agree KJC has to go. Not even the new design is good. Just give us a completely different talent utility. The problem lies within the fact that already affliction lags behind the other 2 speccs on real perfomance in TOT as it is and also affliction is very movement depentant due to the channeling spells (malefic grasp and drainsoul). Removing KJC will even more streatch the gap between the other to speccs. Making haunt to be able to cast it on the move does not change absolutely nothing. We do need haunt to be an on the move cast. Its a 1.5 sec cast and i think any decent warlock can manage to stand still 1.5 sec and cast them. What the affliction talent needs in order to compete and survive its to be able to cast malefic grasp and drain soul on the move. Both spell are 4-6 sec (approx) channeling spells and they both significantly suffer from movement. A big % of the dmg comes from these 2 spells for affliction. Almost every single fight in TOT requires medium to heavy movement. Having a 15 sec move immunity on 1.5min cd will seriously solve nothing. Not to say its better not having at all.
Solutions:
1)Nerf the dmg from malefic grasp and drainsoul and move a bigger % of the dmg on dots.
I cant see this happening as PvP will be affected by this.
2) Make Malefic Grasp and DrainSoul be able to channel cast and move. Leave haunt as it is, a castable stand still spell (people can manage casting and moving with a 1.5sec spell)
3) Remove KJC from the game. Think something else and replace it (another utility ability)

Some issues with affliction to be addressed
1) Afflictions aoe. The mechanic is horrendous. Its pretty lame from blizzard not to be able to improve the way affliction does aoe. Spamming a single button specially the way seed of corruption works its a big fail. Give an additional cd based aoe spell for somne snap aoe.
2) Adjust drain soul ticks to tick every 1 sec and not every 2 as baseline (they will give a shard every 2 ticks so the generation remains the same. This way you improve slightly the execute of affliction in pvp as well and you do not panish the interruption of drain soul as much.

Tys

[NytemareRulez]

Demo is already outperforming other specs and KJC don't really factor in it, while other 2 specs will get gutted, affli w/o moving, and destro w/o moving or massive ember gen with manny fury and prolly with upcoming rof change. In order for all specs to be viable they either need to buff both of them, or just put nerfbat on demo. I wouldn't hold breath...

Are you on drugs? Demo is only top once you get int T15 heroic/bis are really close to it, until then Affliction is still King like it been all expansion, while Destro stuggles to do any real damage - Destro needs buff - in BIS all 3 specs should be doing same or very close (no more then 1K or less) off from each other.

On subject of nerfbat I vote that mages specs get glutted and nerf, as it BS mage specs are the top 3. Can you say favoritism with mages, and bias/hating for locks

[Cebel]

Are you on drugs? Demo is only top once you get int T15 heroic/bis are really close to it, until then Affliction is still King like it been all expansion, while Destro stuggles to do any real damage - Destro needs buff - in BIS all 3 specs should be doing same or very close (no more then 1K or less) off from each other.

On subject of nerfbat I vote that mages specs get glutted and nerf, as it BS mage specs are the top 3. Can you say favoritism with mages, and bias/hating for locks

actually.... demo is far more forgiving on the gear front than affliction ( except for the UVLS part obviously ). Demo becomes better earlier, and becomes even more better later.

[Grizelda]

1)Nerf the dmg from malefic grasp and drainsoul and move a bigger % of the dmg on dots.
I cant see this happening as PvP will be affected by this.

It would be GOOD if PvP were affected by this. Aff could use help getting back to its PVP glory.
PvP being affected is a GOOD thing.

[Bonkura]

actually.... demo is far more forgiving on the gear front than affliction ( except for the UVLS part obviously ). Demo becomes better earlier, and becomes even more better later.

demo is almost equal to affli for me at 530 ilvl without UVLS. destro slightly behind both.

[Rayaleith]

It would be GOOD if PvP were affected by this. Aff could use help getting back to its PVP glory.
PvP being affected is a GOOD thing.

They have already gone into that field despite always saying the do not want to ever do that. They already modified spells according to enemy. Player or Mob. And they have done it harshly on Chaos Bolt for instance. Well, the suggestion to transfer the damage % from MG to the dots is very logical. Well if there are PvP implication, they can solve it like they did with chaos bolt... /sarcasm

[missbrooklyn25]

As much as I want to comment on the KJC i'll leave that alone for now. One can hope that with the change they will give us something worth while in return. I had a ton of fun being able to cast and move. But has no one mentioned the shitty tier set for pve? Is it just me or do those look like warrior shoulders from earlier on? Even the mages look like there getting a rehash of an older set of theirs. The pvp set looks pretty awesome though!

[xskarma]

But has no one mentioned the shitty tier set for pve? Is it just me or do those look like warrior shoulders from earlier on? Even the mages look like there getting a rehash of an older set of theirs. The pvp set looks pretty awesome though!

It is my opnion that Blizz has a limited amount of awesome they can dole out in each expansion and our tier 14 set used up all of it, and even put us in debt. We're paying for it with 2 shitty tier sets in a row. Going to have to wait till next expansion OR start PvPíng to get that one.

[Supernex]

This is a cross post from the official FR forums. Can't post on the US forums (yeah, the one that are actually listened to) so I need your help
/conspiracytheory

We will survive the disappearance of "casting while moving"
We must admit we were a little bit over the top when it comes to DPS. One must be pretty biased to deny it.

I'm gonna speak as an affliction PVE warlock.

Our DPS mainly comes from Malefic Grasp (MG). Our DOTS were purposely neutered for PVP purposes so only MG-channeling makes our DPS worthwhile. Too worthwhile. So losing our ability to cast while running impact us greatly. One could say that all casters are impacted the same way, the main difference is that BECAUSE this talent exists, the theoretical Affliction DPS is calculated with that in mind when raids are designed.

I mean, nobody at blizzard could not have seen that every affliction warlock will take it.
Mannoroth ? With our lackluster AOE ?
Archimonde ? With the fact that warlock is the best class when it comes to... Not taking any damage ?

Without this talent, our DPS suffers greatly more than the DPS of any other ranged DPS (not mentioning hunters)

I am not again a KJC-nerf. Right now it's overpowered. I'm just saying we need a compensation elsewhere.

About haunt being castable while moving, it's NOT a good idea. Affliction 101 says that we must cast haunt WHEN our dots are supercharged AND we can channel MG for the whole duration of the debuff. During movement, cast haunt without being able to cast MG behind is a DPS loss. Like casting haunt then MG but stop-cast to avoid something. Same DPS loss.
Casting haunt while moving is NOT an answer. At best it's a band-aid with 50% chance to infect the wound.

But at last, what I don't accept, is the sacrifice of fun for balancing. Blizzard, with this nerf, is not only killing our DPS, it's killing our way of life. We are ACCUSTOMED to cast while running, we are ACCUSTOMED to react quickly. We are ACCUSTOMED to not being like every other caster in game.

People can cry about being FotM, people can mock our habit of being different, of feeling special and having fun of it. But in the end, isn't it what make this game great ? Having fun ?

I'm speaking to the developers. Give this ability to everyone. With penalty, with restriction, that's just common sense, but please, just try it.
We, warlocks, have discovered that pleasure and we LOVED it. Players WILL love it and it allows your design team to come up with GREAT encounters ideas.

The old "Turret-Mode" is a thing of the past, we must move forward !
I know many non-warlock will mock us, saying we shouldn't complain because blizz took from us something that should never have been given to us in the first place. that we are nothing but brats and spoiled children, but know this :

Casting while moving is FUN. Overpowered as it is, so I'm not arguing against a nerf, but fun.

Everyone should want it, like the shaman's lightning, like the hunt's abilities. We want fun.

PS : oh, about Mannoroth being a trinket...Plz me do not want !

Casting while moving is fun indeed, and I hope that they don't get rid of it completely. Also, I hope they don't keep adding more things to keybind, as I have something like 50 keybinds as it is, and some of them are getting awkward, lol.

[Deleted]

It is my opnion that Blizz has a limited amount of awesome they can dole out in each expansion and our tier 14 set used up all of it, and even put us in debt. We're paying for it with 2 shitty tier sets in a row. Going to have to wait till next expansion OR start PvPíng to get that one.

eh, WOTLK, TBC and classic were all pretty kind to warlocks, I can't really think of any tier sets that I dislike from those, even Cata had some nice ones (yes, I'm the guy that likes T11).

I'm just bummed out that out of the cool looking pvp sets, the alliance one looks great, but the horde one is that horrible shade of maroon - the other good looking set is the elite one, which I doubt I'll be able to get my mitts on.

[Deleted]

If only we had a filler that has a chance to become instant, while having an instant spell that we can use that is worthwhile casting.

And Hunters don't get touched at all, despite getting the same treatment with Patch 5.1. Also, making Haunt castable while moving (as mentioned in the bluepost) is totally compareable to something like Lightning Bolt from Shamans, because we have infinite shards i guess.

I just don't get it why they couldn't wait until 6.0 and give it a whole make-over, instead of experimenting with us in the middle of an expansion. :/

[Szarala]

If only we had a filler that has a chance to become instant,

while I believe you're referring to the old Nightfall, I'm adamant against (bringing) this (back) for warlock. If I wanted to do that, I could play my mage.. or my spriest.. or my moonkin.. or my shaman..

[Deleted]

I just don't get these people saying thy want to return to turret mode. In pvp its impossible as it is with kjc, to chase down a flag carrier or healer with the 30% snare. Ive been waiting all this time for them to remove the snare not remove mobility... even in arena all people have to do is pillar hump and you can do NOTHING to stop them or get uptime on them.litterally all you have to do in pvp is run away from the lock and he is screwed. This change will compound that fact.
every other class has far too much mobility now or like mages the ability to remove that mobility almost completely. As others have mentioned hunters can move and cast freely as can ele shammies with a myriad of instant procs etc that we do not have. in arena even fake casting doesn't help esp when the other team can shove 4 interrupts silences and stuns down your throat. At least with kjc you can TRY to do some cc or dps while trying to reposition yourself. The chaos bolt nerfs have left destro only incinerate worth using and even then for laughable dmg with no pressure. Its like the people posting want locks to be worthless and are justifying them being made worthless simply because they want to roll over them even more on their mains. I like lock lore and play style though im not fond of the current form of affliction thanks to soul shard starvation( haven't played aflic since green fire patch ) Now I know many arena snobs dnt consider rbgs or bgs to "Matter" but for some of us they really matter and I just don't see anyone wanting to take locks to rbgs after this patch we will be the new retpally/arms wars. I can see no reason to continue playing lock after the change other than a martyr complex or these guys who seem to think being a "diehard noble loyal lock for life means more than my own kids lves o be alock yeh!!!" types.
As you can see this is my first post here and its only because im so pissed off at this.

[Deleted]

while I believe you're referring to the old Nightfall, I'm adamant against (bringing) this (back) for warlock. If I wanted to do that, I could play my mage.. or my spriest.. or my moonkin.. or my shaman..

Yes, i am referring to Nightfall, and i don't want it back either - but having cool stuff (KJC) is apparently a crime, so i guess we have to be like everyone else.