Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Deleted]

Am I misunderstanding something here? 0,92 RPPM means that it proccs once every 65sec, so with a 90sec setting on pull it got 25sec over this proccrate, that would mean it already got an increased proccrate on pull.
And BTW, I guess you misunderstood the wording "procc protection", since it doesn´t mean that it can´t procc before this time is over.
Lets say Trinket XYZ got this RPPM of 0,92, so it proccs every 65sec. So lets say it got a 50% chance to procc in the first 10 seconds of the pull (attention: It´s NOT 0!!!), that would mean with a timer of 30sec it got a LOWER proccrate (lets say 25%, I don´t know the actual formular for this calculation, but I can post it for you after work if you want to ), and after a timer of 130 sec it got a HIGHER proccrate (100% for example).
Trinkets ALWAYS have a chance to procc and it´s getting higher the longer you havn´t got a procc

You misunderstand. Most trinkets are able to proc immediately after the previous proc, except the ones like Wushoolay and BBoY, because it would mess with their stacking system. For that reason, those trinkets have 0 chance to proc when their proc is already up.

After those 10s, or immediately for other trinkets, the proc chance is simply based on its RPPM. For example, with an RPPM of 0,92 the chance to proc in any given 10s is 0,92/6 (10s being 1/6 of a minute) = ~15,3%.

The proc rate stays that way for a long time, until 1,5x the expected time to proc has passed since your last proc. So, for 0,92 RPPM, the expected time to proc is 60/0,92 = ~65,2s. Then 1,5 times that is ~97,8s. So for 97,8s after your last proc, the chance to proc remains the same at 15,3% per 10s.

After that, the multiplier it goes up by is 1 + ((time since last proc / expected time to proc) -1,5) *3. For example, after 110s, the multiplier is 1,56 so the chance to proc in 10s is ~23,4%. This keeps going up until you get close to 100%, and at that point your trinket will almost certainly proc on your next spell (or whatever it procs off).

Note that regardless of the RPPM, you only have 1/4 odds of reaching the point where the proc rate starts increasing per proc.

TL;DR trinket proc rate starts at a certain number due to RPPM, and doesn't start increasing for a long time.

[Cloche]

well, in theory, in our pre-ilvl 553 gear atleast, sac will prolly not be worth it coz you need a very high uptime on MG with the nerf to it, and the amount of uptime needed might not even be possible.

Right, Wish there was some solid info on possible stat weights to support GrimSac or Sup but from what I am seeing its most likely going to be Mastery - Haste - Crit, the uptime on MG is going to vary depending on the fight obviously so it might be usable on fights with minimal adds, otherwise you'd take supremacy for multi targets it seems, hopefully with more gear that comes from SoO we will get some good info.

[Deleted]

Right, Wish there was some solid info on possible stat weights to support GrimSac or Sup but from what I am seeing its most likely going to be Mastery - Haste - Crit, the uptime on MG is going to vary depending on the fight obviously so it might be usable on fights with minimal adds, otherwise you'd take supremacy for multi targets it seems, hopefully with more gear that comes from SoO we will get some good info.

There are only 2 fights though that are somewhat single target: Juggernaut and Thok. Along with Sac being nerfed and MG/DS being a way smaller part of our damage, I don't see Sac being good in any situation. Add to that you will likely replace some MG/DS with Fel Flame for moving.

[Cloche]

There are only 2 fights though that are somewhat single target: Juggernaut and Thok. Along with Sac being nerfed and MG/DS being a way smaller part of our damage, I don't see Sac being good in any situation. Add to that you will likely replace some MG/DS with Fel Flame for moving.

I don't see us using Fel Flame that often actually, our only AoE is our SoC + Soulburn for it to be empowered, and thats just padding and not doing the actual fight mechanics, so I don't see Affliction taking MF at all unless your padding, we will most likely not be using Archimonde's Darkness unless the fight involves almost no movement. KJC on the other hand we will most likely be using most of the time, Fel Flame costs more mana than MG does, and Fel Flame might have an increased damage output compared to MG, the MG ticks still causes our dots to do instant damage equal to 30% of their damage, just does not do as much damage as the old MG compared to 50%, from what i'm seeing sacrifice still increases our MG damage which should(Correct me if I am wrong) increase our dot damage as well. With Affliction now appearing to be focusing on dots, we should capitalize on the fact that MG still does damage and if we have super powered dots from procs and what not up, our dots are going to hurt so why not cast MG instead of FF when it does damage only instead of increasing or refreshing the dot duration.

...not sure if that makes sense but w/e.

[Deleted]

I don't see us using Fel Flame that often actually, our only AoE is our SoC + Soulburn for it to be empowered, and thats just padding and not doing the actual fight mechanics, so I don't see Affliction taking MF at all unless your padding, we will most likely not be using Archimonde's Darkness unless the fight involves almost no movement. KJC on the other hand we will most likely be using most of the time, Fel Flame costs more mana than MG does, and Fel Flame might have an increased damage output compared to MG, the MG ticks still causes our dots to do instant damage equal to 30% of their damage, just does not do as much damage as the old MG compared to 50%, from what i'm seeing sacrifice still increases our MG damage which should(Correct me if I am wrong) increase our dot damage as well. With Affliction now appearing to be focusing on dots, we should capitalize on the fact that MG still does damage and if we have super powered dots from procs and what not up, our dots are going to hurt so why not cast MG instead of FF when it does damage only instead of increasing or refreshing the dot duration.

...not sure if that makes sense but w/e.

i can see your reasoning for this, but sac will only be a dps increase after a certain amount of uptime with MG, that wont really change at all, now add the nerf to sac and MG, the uptime needed for making sac worth taking will only get higher. in 5.3 it was around 60-70%(correct me if im wrong) uptime on MG for sac being a dps gain, so you can see that with nerfs to MG and sac, the uptime needed will only increase. GoSup will be your grimoire of choice atleast until you get full 560+ gear and even then its going to be a BIG maybe if GoSac is even worth it.

also i think you're wrong in your assesments on the lvl 90 talent for afflic. from what ive seen, MF will be an incredible good talent on fights like galakras, kor'kron dark shamans and spoils of pandaria off the top of my head and that is with 0 padding at all. KJC is mainly quality of life talent now, sure its usable on all fights but it isnt needed on all fights. AD will be our main "go-to" lvl 90 talent that we'll use, it will be mandatory on anything that remotely look like single target multidotting fights, and for the rest we'll most likely be using MF for aoe burst as afflic. trust me when i say, it will be mainly MF and AD we'll be using in 5.4.

[TheBGreene]

AD will be our main "go-to" lvl 90 talent that we'll use, it will be mandatory on anything that remotely look like single target multidotting fights, and for the rest we'll most likely be using MF for aoe burst as afflic. trust me when i say, it will be mainly MF and AD we'll be using in 5.4.

I agree 100%. Having 2 charges for multi-dot fights that you can line up with procs is going to be really good. I have never been a fan of affliction AOE because it is just not as "fun" as something like demo, etc so I tend to think MF will have limited use (maybe =< 3 fights) because AD is going to be that good. I think we have really seen the end of KJC in general unless there is a fight where we are moving a TON.

[Deleted]

i can see your reasoning for this, but sac will only be a dps increase after a certain amount of uptime with MG, that wont really change at all, now add the nerf to sac and MG, the uptime needed for making sac worth taking will only get higher. in 5.3 it was around 60-70%(correct me if im wrong) uptime on MG for sac being a dps gain, so you can see that with nerfs to MG and sac, the uptime needed will only increase. GoSup will be your grimoire of choice atleast until you get full 560+ gear and even then its going to be a BIG maybe if GoSac is even worth it.

also i think you're wrong in your assesments on the lvl 90 talent for afflic. from what ive seen, MF will be an incredible good talent on fights like galakras, kor'kron dark shamans and spoils of pandaria off the top of my head and that is with 0 padding at all. KJC is mainly quality of life talent now, sure its usable on all fights but it isnt needed on all fights. AD will be our main "go-to" lvl 90 talent that we'll use, it will be mandatory on anything that remotely look like single target multidotting fights, and for the rest we'll most likely be using MF for aoe burst as afflic. trust me when i say, it will be mainly MF and AD we'll be using in 5.4.

MF is very good on Sha of Pride, large amount of adds that spawn every 1m. The other fights you mentioned I am not so sure about. Galakras has AoE adds all the time combined with burst phases for the mini-boss, making Demo very powerful. If you insist on affliction, I think AD/MF will be close. Dark Shamans adds spawn slightly under twice a minute, not lining up with MF at all. For that fight I believe other classes will be way better at dealing with the adds (hunter, elemental, priest, balance, fire mage... basically all the range except us). With 2 targets on the whole fight, AD will be very good there. Spoils I'm not sure, I don't think there is all that much AoE. You also have targets that need to die quick, favoring AD.

Overall I think AD will be the best for the large majority of fights. Being able to line every DS up with a large intellect proc is a huge boon to dots, which benefits us even more with almost all fights having more than one target to run dots on.

The multiple targets also means you will MG less, making KJC and Sac worse. I don't think either one has any chance in the current version.

[Cloche]

i can see your reasoning for this, but sac will only be a dps increase after a certain amount of uptime with MG, that wont really change at all, now add the nerf to sac and MG, the uptime needed for making sac worth taking will only get higher. in 5.3 it was around 60-70%(correct me if im wrong) uptime on MG for sac being a dps gain, so you can see that with nerfs to MG and sac, the uptime needed will only increase. GoSup will be your grimoire of choice atleast until you get full 560+ gear and even then its going to be a BIG maybe if GoSac is even worth it.

also i think you're wrong in your assesments on the lvl 90 talent for afflic. from what ive seen, MF will be an incredible good talent on fights like galakras, kor'kron dark shamans and spoils of pandaria off the top of my head and that is with 0 padding at all. KJC is mainly quality of life talent now, sure its usable on all fights but it isnt needed on all fights. AD will be our main "go-to" lvl 90 talent that we'll use, it will be mandatory on anything that remotely look like single target multidotting fights, and for the rest we'll most likely be using MF for aoe burst as afflic. trust me when i say, it will be mainly MF and AD we'll be using in 5.4.

I honestly don't know, I just don't see MF being all that good for afflict unless your padding...AD on the other hand, I wasn't using that at all when I was testing it earlier, maybe I need to? I don't know, there are too many variables at this point even with the patch coming within two weeks, we don't know what trinkets will be BiS minus the bindings from Immersius, one trinket could potentially make MG Mandatory. Why would AD be mandatory on fights where there will most likely be movement?

I like how when I posted this, several other posts were posted xD

[sasofrass]

Why would AD be mandatory on fights where there will most likely be movement?

because most of your damage comes from your dots instead of MG and having 2 dark soul charges means you can line up your dark soul with near every large int proc, making high ticking dots that you can spread to all the targets with the new soul swap. basically, the less you have to MG, the less valuable KJC is.

[Cloche]

because most of your damage comes from your dots instead of MG and having 2 dark soul charges means you can line up your dark soul with near every large int proc, making high ticking dots that you can spread to all the targets with the new soul swap. basically, the less you have to MG, the less valuable KJC is.

In what case then would you use KJC? Boss wise and assuming if we are using AD/MF most of the time?

[Deleted]

In what case then would you use KJC? Boss wise and assuming if we are using AD/MF most of the time?

Never. Maybe if there were a fight that's pure single target and moving all the time, but there is no such fight in SoO.

[TheBGreene]

In what case then would you use KJC? Boss wise and assuming if we are using AD/MF most of the time?

TBH with the knowledge I have of the fights and taking into consideration the increase of dmg to our dots and the decrease of MG, I do not see myself taking KJC on any fight in SoO. AD and MF to a lesser extent are much better on each and every fight.

[Cloche]

Never. Maybe if there were a fight that's pure single target and moving all the time, but there is no such fight in SoO.

I see... so dots, move onto the next target, dots rinse and repeat huh Lol

[TheBGreene]

I see... so dots, move onto the next target, dots rinse and repeat huh Lol

Well they are making it quite clear that they want our dots to be the catalyst of the class and not the channeling, while you make it sound bland in your description, yes, MOAR DOTS.

Also keep in mind haunt is going to play an ever bigger role as well, I think the uptime is going to be quite high (higher than now) and that will also push the damage of our dots through the roof.

So to your earlier point...AD (2 DS procs) + massive int procs + pandemic + haunt = NIIIIIIIIICE. This is why KJC is not as good but quite a large margin. Enjoy it for the next week and a day because once 5.4 launches, it will be going bye bye.

[Cloche]

Well they are making it quite clear that they want our dots to be the catalyst of the class and not the channeling, while you make it sound bland in your description, yes, MOAR DOTS.

Also keep in mind haunt is going to play an ever bigger role as well, I think the uptime is going to be quite high (higher than now) and that will also push the damage of our dots through the roof.

So to your earlier point...AD (2 DS procs) + massive int procs + pandemic + haunt = NIIIIIIIIICE. This is why KJC is not as good but quite a large margin. Enjoy it for the next week and a day because once 5.4 launches, it will be going bye bye.

Lol, why do you say that? And I didn't mean it blandly, I don't mind that :P

[TheBGreene]

Lol, why do you say that? And I didn't mean it blandly, I don't mind that :P

Why do I say what? That they want our dots to be the catalyst of Affliction? Or the part about KJC going bye bye?

[Cloche]

Why do I say what? That they want our dots to be the catalyst of Affliction? Or the part about KJC going bye bye?

Whoops, read that wrong, meant the KJC part, now I understand haha, my bad, if its going to be focusing on the dots, then shouldn't we have diseases at this point? Lol :P

But nah, if thats the case then are we spending a lot of our time spreading our dots and casting instant ones + Haunt whenever there's no adds up?

[Werst]

It is also worth pointing out that the UA glyph is going to be a good bit better since it means being able to move again sooner (even if it doesn't reduce GCD/etc). No KJC = a buff for the UA glyph. Then again with SoO ilvl budgets we will likely be getting to at least the 13K haste point with even higher mastery (at 550'ish ilvl) so its not that big just something to consider for a post KJC affliction. That said, I still wish we could get a minor glyph to trade FF's dmg bump for dot renewal. While I'm obviously a pve'er not everyone is and the change is as much bane to pvp as it is buff to pve. At the very least it enables a playstyle choice which should be encouraged.

[Brusalk]

It is also worth pointing out that the UA glyph is going to be a good bit better since it means being able to move again sooner (even if it doesn't reduce GCD/etc). No KJC = a buff for the UA glyph. Then again with SoO ilvl budgets we will likely be getting to at least the 13K haste point with even higher mastery (at 550'ish ilvl) so its not that big just something to consider for a post KJC affliction. That said, I still wish we could get a minor glyph to trade FF's dmg bump for dot renewal. While I'm obviously a pve'er not everyone is and the change is as much bane to pvp as it is buff to pve. At the very least it enables a playstyle choice which should be encouraged.

I'd be very surprised if that's not what Glyph of Everlasting Affliction turns into. (And I hope that they DO. Fel Flame refreshing is a staple of Destro Havoc gaming for certain fights.)

[Deleted]

iirc Glyph of Everlasting Affliction was already changed into something else (they could modify/create another Glyph though).