Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Brusalk]

Do you think FnB should be rolled back into MF? or perhaps RoF & FnB have a slightly bigger radius (as standard) to compensate?

I'm of the opinion that MF should provide the AoE range increasing effect while MF is off cooldown, and provide ONLY the damage increase when used.

It would solve not only Destro problems, but also Demo ranged-AoE problems as well.

[lichanator]

I'm of the opinion that MF should provide the AoE range increasing effect while MF is off cooldown, and provide ONLY the damage increase when used.

It would solve not only Destro problems, but also Demo ranged-AoE problems as well.

This is so Right on many levels, hopefully this can happen, but unlikley

[pokeadott]

Honestly, there should be zero issues with buffing CB damage as relates to PvP. As is, I'm pretty sure it's never worth casting in 5.4 arena (sans KC, 3 sec cast time, -25% hidden reduc, GoSac component = DoT). In 5.4 gear, a Dark Soul CB might hit for 30% of a players healthbar before damage reduction/absorbs? Factor in the now now stationary wind-up and the rest of the drawbacks, and the spell kills itself. Not to mention that embers are harder to come by thanks to RoF.

Destro pvp is going to just be FF/Conflag spam, occasional drafted incins depending on positioning, and gaming everything you have for Shadowburn snipes. The can buff the hell out of CB without hurting pvp in the slightest. Consequently, I'd rather see buffs to Conflag/Incin/FF coefs because of this.

[Ogawdspider]

What spec are people gonna be turning to when 5.4 hits? Just curious

I am gonna go with affliction, i don't really want to go demonology but it seems like it could be a good idea.

[Moggie]

What spec are people gonna be turning to when 5.4 hits? Just curious

Same as now. Aff/Demo. I'm sure one or the other will do fine. =P But could change since we have two resets until next patch...

[Werst]

I agree with Brusalk in the theory behind MF for destro. After the RoF change something needs to give. That and/or a fix relating to aoe sustainability of F&B use on say 4-6 targets (which is a very common grouping size).

My suggestions for destro are pretty simple but would fix quite a bit.
*Incin, conflag, FF (dest only) buffed 10% to match immolate
*Conflag's recharge reduced by haste rating
*Backdraft minor glyph trading 30% haste for 30% crit to incinerate
*Ember consumers buffed about 30%
*T16 4pc loses the ICD
*T16 2pc is 100% conflag crit or 30-33% conflag hit

Those are pretty standard. I would consider scraping the 2pc bonus for something like "each time you conflag you gain a stack of ____, at 5x stacks you gain a emberless shadowburn (or cb) useable at any HP". Could add a "can't proc or be used vs players" if its that much of a problem. I also still kind of feel like the RoF change exposes some fundamental flaws in the destro aoe system now that MF is a cooldown. So either Brusalk's suggestion or just make RoF "spellweave" cleave from each target it hits in its radius to other targets. This would give enough hits that a lower ember generation per hit is no problem but be useless for single target while allowing sustainability. Another "nice to have" would be a minor glyph for fel flame to trade its 5.4 14%'ish dmg gain for its old dot renewal allowing locks to pick their playstyle.

Clearly destro needs help in pvp too but there is just too much bias against the big green dildo of doom regardless of what other classes do in terms of burst....

[shinewaylee]

Incinerate cast time and damage increased 10% is likely.
2.2s is not too long.

[sasofrass]

Incinerate cast time and damage increased 10% is likely.
2.2s is not too long.

what would this accomplish? destro needs buffs, this would just make KJC seem just ever so slightly more important but that's really it. DPS in general wouldn't change at all.

[Deleted]

I'm back from hibernation and sad as buck. Excuse my lack of thread-related knowledge, but for now, I just glanced at the changes and would like to issue a bounty of 50.000 Gold to anyone who brings the person responsible for the KJC change to the middle of VoEB and shoots him in his right temple with a large caliber bullet. Not to QQ too much though, will do some soul-searching and decide, if my doubleaffli is the way to 5.4. Off to read the most of the thread.

Have a fine friday folks.

[Akakishin]

But, buffing Incinerate too, could be a pvp concern aswell.

cast an incinerate in arena and you will see what is PVP's concern atm

[Jessicka]

Well this just annoyed me:

Israel Ibanez ‏@Loco_Cubano 11h

@Ghostcrawler @holinka @CM_Zarhym What happened to Mastery being the knob you guys can turn to buff or nerf a class?

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 9h

@Loco_Cubano @holinka @CM_Zarhym That was a miscomm somewhere. If we buff mastery, it becomes your best stat and everyone has to reforge.

This after Demo's reforge rollercoaster as we regear for roll back to Crit as soon as 5.4 lands :|

/rage

[Resentful]

Been following my rogue haven't kept with the lock changes if the RoF to ember generation noticeable in terms of casting RoF on like a billion mobs?

[Lethl]

cast an incinerate in arena and you will see what is PVP's concern atm

He he, True :=)

[Betrayerx]

Well this just annoyed me:

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 9h

@Loco_Cubano @holinka @CM_Zarhym That was a miscomm somewhere. If we buff mastery, it becomes your best stat and everyone has to reforge.

This after Demo's reforge rollercoaster as we regear for roll back to Crit as soon as 5.4 lands :|

/rage

Idk, if the amp trinket becomes the new unerring for us to game then haste stacking may become the best option. That's the first thing I'm planning on doing when I get my hands on one. Gunna hit the dummy and see if I can sit on mc procs to game them into the amp trinket and let my haste forging/gemming get me more procs while the trinket itself does the work of boosting SF's dmg for huge burns. If DS and amp line up think how insane the dumps will be if you sit on 5-6+mc procs. The only thing I'm worried about is shitty pull dmg with no t15 2 pc to carry the lack of fury, especially with one less imp in the opener, assuming we still take swarm. We could very well be back to the cata demo days where meta will be just a cd again instead of a stance dancing mechanic like it is currently. Fight knowledge for fury pooling might actually become a thing 0.0

[ZaneBusby]

Idk, if the amp trinket becomes the new unerring for us to game then haste stacking may become the best option. That's the first thing I'm planning on doing when I get my hands on one. Gunna hit the dummy and see if I can sit on mc procs to game them into the amp trinket and let my haste forging/gemming get me more procs while the trinket itself does the work of boosting SF's dmg for huge burns. If DS and amp line up think how insane the dumps will be if you sit on 5-6+mc procs. The only thing I'm worried about is shitty pull dmg with no t15 2 pc to carry the lack of fury, especially with one less imp in the opener, assuming we still take swarm. We could very well be back to the cata demo days where meta will be just a cd again instead of a stance dancing mechanic like it is currently. Fight knowledge for fury pooling might actually become a thing 0.0

I hate to burst your bubble, but the amp trinket was changed quite a few weeks ago. Take a look at what it currently looks like:

Purified Bindings of Immerseus

[Deleted]

Can we get confirmation / clarification on:
"Wowhead has one change for locks, Imp's dispel is now 20 sec CD (10 before) and 1.5 sec cast (Instant before)"
I can't seem to find record of the change anywhere, but Zum is usually a pretty credible guy.

Hey Acteon from the official US forums (too bad I can't post there !) you should have asked here directly
At the bottom of this page, after the class changes :
http://www.wowhead.com/news=218666/5...posts-and-more

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/115276-sear-magic
http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/115276-sear-magic

("Can be cast in Shadowform" wtf ? x))

[TheBGreene]

I hate to burst your bubble, but the amp trinket was changed quite a few weeks ago. Take a look at what it currently looks like:

Purified Bindings of Immerseus

Still IMO our number 1 trinket to pursue in the opening weeks. Probably coupled with Wush to start wouldnt be too bad (Affliction or Demo).

[Betrayerx]

I haven't been on ptr and certainly haven't been paying attention to the changes. As soon as I saw the first iteration I said it would be changed. Thanks for linking it. Still looks good enough to be bis and Immerseus should be one of the earlier bosses so it won't take long to get.

[Ravoks]

Not really found of rolling a Wush regardless of H-TF as Demo. Still have yet to get my hands on it though.

[ZaneBusby]

Well this just annoyed me:

@Ghostcrawler @holinka @CM_Zarhym What happened to Mastery being the knob you guys can turn to buff or nerf a class? (source)

@Loco_Cubano @holinka @CM_Zarhym That was a miscomm somewhere. If we buff mastery, it becomes your best stat and everyone has to reforge (source)

This after Demo's reforge rollercoaster as we regear for roll back to Crit as soon as 5.4 lands :|

/rage

What I really find funny about this tweet by GC is how he's entirely wrong and miscommunicating it himself. Mastery IS the tuning knob, he just misunderstands how.



It's all about the base mastery levels (which I've taken the liberty to underline in that pic. The green digit is the amount of mastery from gear/buffs). It has no effect on the scaling/value of mastery whatsoever, it just buffs the base amount of mastery at level cap, increasing damage. The only side effect of this is a minor buff to lesser geared players in the process, but lesser gear is irrelevant anyway (level cap is NOT balanced around heroic 5man gear at this point), and it would only be very minor, probably almost negligible...

Not that it matters all that much, because he's already shoved it off to the side, just that I find it amusing.