1. #3481
    Deleted
    ok guys calm down. ive followed the discussion for the last 20 pages. nobody is forcing you to play the highest dps spec when 5.4 drops, but if you want to do max damage you have to play affliction. other class specs always have the problem that 1 spec is completly broken (look at MM hunters in 5.2).

  2. #3482
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    Quote Originally Posted by parayok View Post
    nobody is forcing you to play the highest dps spec when 5.4 drops
    yeah, but the week afterwards when heroic content starts. and do you know who is forcing me? It´s me! And I think its the same with every single guy in this thread, since they won´t complain about destro beeing to low if they don´t actually care about getting the best out of their class.

  3. #3483
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    yes but when you wanna do the maximum dps you have to play affliction, similar to play demo in 5.2/5.3. although i rather play affliction i had to change spec to demonology for maximum dps on most bosses. now you have to spec to affliction from destru.

    maybe next expansion we have to spec from affliction to destruction for maximum dps.
    Last edited by mmoc27783e5c75; 2013-08-29 at 12:11 PM.

  4. #3484
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    You have a point parayok, especially earlier about MM hunters being bottom of the barrel, but then in all fairness warlocks received a complete overhaul this expansion so people would expect that the specs play within reasonable distances of eachother.

    Also, destruction warlocks were explicitly told that the removal of embers from RoF would be compensated for with damage buffs elsewhere, which has only been acted upon with a pitiful 10% buff to immolate.

    I'm confident we will see a buff to destruction, I'm just concerned it will leave too little time to test.

  5. #3485
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    Agree with Parayok. There is always a strongest spec.
    It's just the spec most people like (destro) does not seem viable on all fights.
    However, as cabana mentionned, there are fights where it is still strong in SoO. It is just situational.

    Edit: Do not be confident about a buff to destro. It probaly won't happen; it might happen. There was a buff already, i don't see why Blizzard / GC would add another one before things go live after reading their tweets. They are "keeping an eye on Destro", therefore i don't think it'll get buffs before the patch goes live.
    Last edited by mmoc8ee790e781; 2013-08-29 at 01:18 PM.

  6. #3486
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Agree with Parayok. There is always a strongest spec.
    It's just the spec most people like (destro) does not seem viable on all fights.
    However, as cabana mentionned, there are fights where it is still strong in SoO. It is just situational.

    Edit: Do not be confident about a buff to destro. It probaly won't happen; it might happen. There was a buff already, i don't see why Blizzard / GC would add another one before things go live after reading their tweets. They are "keeping an eye on Destro", therefore i don't think it'll get buffs before the patch goes live.
    Are you talking about the 10% immolate buff? That really is the most miniscule of changes. Its not even worth thinking about, im sure it works out to a 0.5% increase in damage or something.
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  7. #3487
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    Destro was behind in 5.3 on single target, to compensate they nerfed single target. that is stupid.

    and yeah, it's a big problem in WoW that different DPS specs are left lagging behind (Subtlety, Arms, Marksman, Destro), why the hell can't they tweak numbers to keep them close like they do to Mages?? 20% buff to Incinerate and Conflag, 20% reduction to FnB - there you go Ghostcrawler, you're welcome.

  8. #3488
    Deleted
    IMO 5.4 Affliction is looking like great fun. New Soul Swap is pretty good design, and combined with AD gives the spec an insane amount of depth. I don't recall ever having to think so much about how to play optimally for any caster spec.

    I don't see the problem with the current iteration at all... Affliction and Demo are very close, or seem to be from all sources I have seen including doing all PTR tests myself. Affliction is a bit better on sustained 2-3 target DPS, while Demo can burst more and has better AoE in almost all circumstances. Destruction is still strong on 3-4 fights. For the lowest overall spec that's not bad at all if you look at previous patches. So many pure classes have had 100% useless specs almost every patch.

    There will always be a strongest and a weakest spec, no matter how hard you try to balance things, unless the specs are made so similar that they have almost no differences. If you are serious about providing the most you can for your raid, you will always be forced to the best spec for a fight. If you don't care that much about optimizing, why do you care so much about balance?

  9. #3489
    Looks like a 15% chaos bolt damage increase was hotfixed into PTR yesterday (Lore blue post on PTR forum). Should be interesting and pack a whallop!

  10. #3490
    Banned Cebel's Avatar
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    so can we stop crying about destro 24/7, ya it still sucks, but atleast its 15% more cbolt dmg less sucky than it was before...

    We agree that Destruction is a bit low in 5.4. We also recognize that, particularly after the Kil'Jaeden's Cunning changes, Chaos Bolt has become a "riskier" spell to cast. To both ends, we think a Chaos Bolt buff is in order. We're going to bring it up by 15% and see where that puts things.

    Our general philosophy for Destruction in 5.4 is that casting Chaos Bolt can be tricky sometimes -- working around interrupts and LOS in PvP, or sneaking them in between periods of movement in PvE -- but when the cast goes off, it hurts. A lot. We do have to be careful not to push things TOO far, but we'll see how things go from here.

    This change was applied via hotfix sometime yesterday, so it should already be live on the PTR if you'd like to get some testing in.

  11. #3491
    Quote Originally Posted by Cebel View Post
    so can we stop crying about destro 24/7, ya it still sucks, but atleast its 15% more cbolt dmg less sucky than it was before...
    Feel free to talk about other things, but seeing as Destro is still under-performing you can be assured that there are still going to be people talking about it.

    15% doesn't seem to be enough to me, and it still doesn't address our AoE problems. Better something than nothing I suppose, but I wouldn't say our work is done quite yet.

  12. #3492
    I still think changing Backdraft from 30% haste to 30% crit would solve most of the spec's problems.

    I have no hope for them fixing MF + FnB at this point, knowing Blizzard for as long as I do.

  13. #3493
    I dont understand why they are using chaos bolt to tune. Its the first thing they nerf when people complain about PvP issues and warlocks so why buff it now when your just inviting the same cycle to continue of buff/nerf. I suspect they are too close to the release of the patch and we are getting a bandaid again. Hopefully enough testing on the PTR will yield a bit more.

  14. #3494
    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan30 View Post
    I dont understand why they are using chaos bolt to tune. Its the first thing they nerf when people complain about PvP issues and warlocks so why buff it now when your just inviting the same cycle to continue of buff/nerf. I suspect they are too close to the release of the patch and we are getting a bandaid again. Hopefully enough testing on the PTR will yield a bit more.
    Well it's definitely just a bandaid fix but atm I think its too late to expect them to do things like change backdraft to give crit instead or haste, or increase the proc rate of the meta or the 50 other good ideas that have been tossed out. However, as far as pvp is concerned Lore did mention that with the removal of CB from KJC it is now ok for CB to hit hard as its a 3 sec cast. Hopefully if it becomes a pvp problem they just nerf its pvp damage as appropriate and don't revert the change.

    While the spec is still underperforming at least its a nice boost for its niche fights where we will end up with lots of CBs due to the extra embers when we SB dying adds. If they could just make it so its not horrendously bad in single target, strong on fights with SB/havoc and give us enough embers to take out the clunkiness when we AoE I'd be happy. I don't expect any major mechanic fixes/changes til 6.0.

  15. #3495
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    Destro was behind in 5.3 on single target, to compensate they nerfed single target. that is stupid.

    and yeah, it's a big problem in WoW that different DPS specs are left lagging behind (Subtlety, Arms, Marksman, Destro), why the hell can't they tweak numbers to keep them close like they do to Mages?? 20% buff to Incinerate and Conflag, 20% reduction to FnB - there you go Ghostcrawler, you're welcome.
    Agreed, conf and inci 's base damage is too low and low crit.

  16. #3496
    Deleted
    Feel free to talk about other things, but seeing as Destro is still under-performing you can be assured that there are still going to be people talking about it.

    15% doesn't seem to be enough to me, and it still doesn't address our AoE problems. Better something than nothing I suppose, but I wouldn't say our work is done quite yet.
    Well I won't spit on that buff (yaay :P), but I'm not sure that it was the best way to buff Destro either. Nice to know they are doing something anyway.

  17. #3497
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Feel free to talk about other things, but seeing as Destro is still under-performing you can be assured that there are still going to be people talking about it.

    15% doesn't seem to be enough to me, and it still doesn't address our AoE problems. Better something than nothing I suppose, but I wouldn't say our work is done quite yet.
    It's actually difficult to talk about something else in a thread where the same people keep hashing and rehashing the problems with Destruction.

    There are some interesting suggestions for Destro; are you posting them on official forums where a dev might actually see them?

    That being said, I suggest that Aff and Demo locks abandon this thread and just post in the 5.3 stickied threads. Confusing, since you're talking about 5.4...but more likely to provide satisfaction.

  18. #3498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Feel free to talk about other things, but seeing as Destro is still under-performing you can be assured that there are still going to be people talking about it.

    15% doesn't seem to be enough to me, and it still doesn't address our AoE problems. Better something than nothing I suppose, but I wouldn't say our work is done quite yet.
    talking about it is fine..... whining the same point over and over and over for 20 pages is a little much. :P

  19. #3499
    1) CB Buff is no where near enough. Based on my most recent HIQon parse, CB was 29% of my total dmg (sup spec, mastery build). Let's round that up to 30%. A 15% buff nets me a 4.5% overall dmg buff. Now let's remember that thanks to the RoF nerf, I'm also casting less CBs. Let's be generous and say that I'm casting 20% less CB's than Live. That lowers the net dps gain to 3.6%. Some very very back of the envelope guesstimating, but that CB buff is nothing short of 'meh' and still leaves well behind the pack.

    2) The Devs need to address Backdraft/Metagem/Destro 1 sec GCD situation (and Lust/Zerking if you wanna extend things). The combination of those absolutely kills haste scaling for us. We already have a portion of our damage unaffected by a scaling stat (pets and mastery), we shouldn't be saddled with abysmal haste scaling on top of it.

    3) Related -I know they want to minimize our 'on the pull' stuff, but I'm also worried about our opener dps now that we don't have multiple haste-boosted RoF's feeding us with embers. I'm a troll lock still saddled with the Shadowpan trinket, so this is more of an issue for me, but on Live I can pump out a good amount of chaosbolts on openers thanks to RoF embers. More of a frustration thing I guess unless there are a lot of 'hard open' fights in SoO. But is sucks being the 'burst' spec and having by far the worst burst dps of all 3.

  20. #3500
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Well I won't spit on that buff (yaay :P), but I'm not sure that it was the best way to buff Destro either. Nice to know they are doing something anyway.
    Agreed, wasn't the right way to buff destruction at all. But I guess you can't scream at buffs... Looking forward to the next expansion when they address things like haste scaling, really would've liked to have seen the meta gem tuned as well.

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