Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[luckydevours]

*Backdraft minor glyph trading 30% haste for 30% crit to incinerate

Backdraft is not a haste bonus but a cast time modifier. Trading a scaling cast time multiplier against a static crit bonus would be a dps nerf in most cases, especially in later contents with powerful stats on high level items.

[Cebel]

updated trinket

i guess tweeting both GC and lore 5+ times a day with

"is there a reason a 549 ilvl Wushoolays is stronger than a 563 ilvl Black Blood of Ysarhj?" finally paid off.... I bet its because my final tweet about the issue....

"how many tweets does it take to get to the answer of a trinket based question!? ONE! TWO! THR *CRUNCH*!"

[sasofrass]

i guess tweeting both GC and lore 5+ times a day with

"is there a reason a 549 ilvl Wushoolays is stronger than a 563 ilvl Black Blood of Ysarhj?" finally paid off.... I bet its because my final tweet about the issue....

"how many tweets does it take to get to the answer of a trinket based question!? ONE! TWO! THR *CRUNCH*!"

Did they increase the rppm on it aswell? I can't remember what it was before.

[Pyrhos]

Did they increase the rppm on it aswell? I can't remember what it was before.

No. It has been .92 RPPM.

Edit - I was going to link a source - but I don't have permissions to do so.

Anyway - it was .92 RPPM with a 1565 Int Proc. So nearly an 800 int increase per stack at that ilvl.

[sasofrass]

No. It has been .92 RPPM.

Edit - I was going to link a source - but I don't have permissions to do so.

Anyway - it was .92 RPPM with a 1565 Int Proc. So nearly an 800 int increase per stack at that ilvl.

Cool. Looking like a pretty good trinket now!

[Grizelda]

Backdraft is not a haste bonus but a cast time modifier. Trading a scaling cast time multiplier against a static crit bonus would be a dps nerf in most cases, especially in later contents with powerful stats on high level items.

I'm not a huge fan of this idea either, but, what later content? This is most likely the last tier of the expac and things will reset next expac with new character levels (either 95 or 100). Note how Destro is often great at the beginning of an expac and tanks at the end.

There is just sooooo much haste around this time that it's glaringly obvious.

I understand the desire to do something different with backdraft but I'm not sure that crit is it. Maybe if Incinerate did more damage with more crit like Chaosbolt?

I understand that changing Incinerates base cast time to make it harder to go over the GCD would screw lower levels.

[JV Chequer]

The problem about BBoY it's the boss xD

The heroic one it's useless for progression, so probably we will use KTT or BBOY depends which one we get first with higher ilvl, but indeed the BBOY now looks better than KTT with both in the same ilvl.

PS: I'm really glad that BBOY or any trinket have Trinket this tier. Damn, Wushy just make me sad when seeing all the hit.

[Deleted]

adjust with immolate then ?
could be interesting as some argue about simple/new spell/no dot argument

make immolate a longer dot (agony like) which is buffed by haste with shorter ticks, no issue for pvp as it is dispeled and more dps for pve single target and in a way aoe if adds have big hp pool

[sasofrass]

make immolate a longer dot (agony like) which is buffed by haste with shorter ticks

It already does this. All DoTs do this with more haste.

[Werst]

The CB buff is going to be about a 4-5% gain to the spec based on napkin math (and itemization/spec choice/etc). That combined with immolate's 1%'ish buff may not be enough to bring it up to par its at least a start. I'm guessing destro will now itemize around a mastery > crit > haste setup. This is to leverage the CB buff plus on fights where you'd use destro as a niche its for shadowburn sniping/cleaving which is also mastery fueled.

I'd like to see immolate treated more like a mage bomb/dot. That is to say a minor glyph that makes it instant but removes the up front damage tick and maybe extends it 3 sec on the backend. Just a playstyle change... Similar to the philosophy on a minor glyph to swap 30% haste vs 30% crit on backdraft.

[Chrispotter]

The CB buff is going to be about a 4-5% gain to the spec based on napkin math (and itemization/spec choice/etc). That combined with immolate's 1%'ish buff may not be enough to bring it up to par its at least a start. I'm guessing destro will now itemize around a mastery > crit > haste setup. This is to leverage the CB buff plus on fights where you'd use destro as a niche its for shadowburn sniping/cleaving which is also mastery fueled.

I'd like to see immolate treated more like a mage bomb/dot. That is to say a minor glyph that makes it instant but removes the up front damage tick and maybe extends it 3 sec on the backend. Just a playstyle change... Similar to the philosophy on a minor glyph to swap 30% haste vs 30% crit on backdraft.

They didnt increase mastery's effectiveness for destro, just a base damage increase for chaos bolt. I see no reason why Mastery's value would grow from this change, it only seems to warrant an increase in Crit and Haste, to generate more embers, to cast chaos bolts, which now do more damage . I'm not saying you are wrong or right with mastery being a strong/strongest stat but your reasoning for why it should be seems flawed.

[Deleted]

They didnt increase mastery's effectiveness for destro, just a base damage increase for chaos bolt. I see no reason why Mastery's value would grow from this change, it only seems to warrant an increase in Crit and Haste, to generate more embers, to cast chaos bolts, which now do more damage . I'm not saying you are wrong or right with mastery being a strong/strongest stat but your reasoning for why it should be seems flawed.

I would think it's simply because:

Chaosbolt's overall damage was increased, mastery increases damage as a percentage, the higher the damage chaosbolt does, the more potent mastery becomes point for point.

This is not to say it makes mastery more desirable vs. haste & crit, just that it makes mastery better than before.

[Werst]

A lot of the situations where destro was used it was due to ember consuming spells...thus mastery is your strongest secondary stat. Pretty sure destro faceplants its haste scaling between losing RoF and hitting the GCD w' incinerate like a short girl's cervix. Crit has always been the weakest in terms of scaling at high levels though as I mentioned above I see it coming in second. My reasoning for favoring mastery is anywhere that's pure single target you are NOT going to be using destro. Aff and demo will make a mockery of its numbers regardless of the latest change. To get the most from CB (already our best scaling source of dmg) you would focus on mastery and crit. Since the SoO fights where destro is possibly viable are that way due to shadowburn sniping/cleaving its best to focus on mastery more than crit. Also the 4xT16 set crit bonus has an ICD so faster ember generation doesn't scale off the set bonus while bigger spending per ember does (assuming you time it correctly). Thus mastery > crit > haste.

[Jessicka]

I would think it's simply because:

Chaosbolt's overall damage was increased, mastery increases damage as a percentage, the higher the damage chaosbolt does, the more potent mastery becomes point for point.

This is not to say it makes mastery more desirable vs. haste & crit, just that it makes mastery better than before.

Wouldn't dropping RoF from the rotation also serve to reduce the value of Haste? As it's one less damage source/ember generator that's benefitting from the stat.

[Xanatas]

maybe a passive ability "cataclysm" (old 5 point-talent) for 5% extra crit for destruction?

Immolate design is very very old, need an istant cast like fire shock

[Brusalk]

Wouldn't dropping RoF from the rotation also serve to reduce the value of Haste? As it's one less damage source/ember generator that's benefitting from the stat.

RoF was practically the only thing that gave any value to Haste.

The only discussion now is whether Crit or Mastery is best, and (while I'm waiting for more changes, and thus haven't done a ton of theorycrafting for 5.4 yet) I don't anticipate Haste being good whatsoever.

With the crit from set bonuses it may be that Crit is for single target, while Mastery is for everything else. (Hunch) That's assuming we even go for set bonuses. /shrug

[sasofrass]

When does rain of fire start becoming viable? 2 targets? 3?

[Grizelda]

I'm wondering if I should be using the legendary meta gem at all. I'm thinking no.


That will suck to swap in and out for Affliction/Destro.

[Deleted]

When does rain of fire start becoming viable? 2 targets? 3?

Is it really not a DPS gain in single target ?
- Its DPET is superior (according to Simcraft)
- It still yields more embers (0.25 emberbit per tick in my last test, around 2 emberbits per cast)
The only drawback is the very high mana cost, for a somewhat limited gain over incinerate.
I will test the ember gain again if the PTR servers come back.

Edit: hey wadup GC? I'm just kidding

[Chrispotter]

When does rain of fire start becoming viable? 2 targets? 3?

Im guessing 2 Targets but I would also really like to know if anyone has a confirmation on this.
I could probably go test this for myself, but anyone know if its worth Dropping a rain of fire on Movement V an extra Fel Flame?