Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Xyronic]

Didn't it take Blood Legion over 400 attempts for Lei Shen. They need hundreds of pulls. So it is especially true for top-end guilds.

Sure, they can get the mechanics down pretty easily. Heroic Lei Shen was a hilariously difficult fight with insane dps checks which hinged on dps getting their trinket procs at the start of the fight. (The RNG of static shock didnt help either) Given that most guilds didnt even get close to killing it until item upgrades became available (not to mention the VE target cap bug day one of 5.3), there technically isnt much room for many people to talk at all.

[Deleted]

Didn't it take Blood Legion over 400 attempts for Lei Shen. They need hundreds of pulls. So it is especially true for top-end guilds.

Yes, but you said that EVERY pull out of 400 was better than the last, or else they would have ''zero room to talk about raiding at all''. That's obviously not true.

[Moruff]

Gentlemen... what's all this hubbub about really? Are we saying HTF Wush > UVLS? Are we trying to figure out what the best trinkets are for normals? What loot to push to receive from loot council? What is going to be best for heroic progression?

I'm of the school that your gameplay is going to outweigh your trinket chocie in basically every case. Of course, your trinket is going to contribute to success, but to a much lesser extent. Aren't the best players going to reforge/regem every time they get to a cockblock progression fight? Aren't you going to use a different trinket then depending on the fight? Is simcraft telling you that UVLS > HTF Wush by 300 dps? That doesn't mean much really. Sorry for the rant, but people get so steamed about what simcraft tells us and how to reforge and gem etc. What happened to the days when people talked about how to do fights better?

[Werst]

I can make UVLS work for demo vs the 5.4 trinkets far better than I can make it work for aff. It feels downright awful as affliction....especially in terms of predictability. I'd keep my 543ilvl UVLS for demo and council type fights but I'll be going for amp (w' demo) if not KTT/BBoY (normal) for aff. I'd agree w' Evrelia about a normal wush being better than a heroic UVLS for aff though its a moot point since if you can get your hands on a heroic UVLS you can certainly get a heroic wush. I don't know how many guilds will be willing to offnight or whatnot to farm 3x bosses into ToT for a h.wush...but I wouldn't count on it even w' the 30% nerf.

Play will almost always trump gear within the margin of variance we have been talking about. I also don't trust sims when they fly in the face of logic. I especially do not trust them at the start of a tier when their theory hasn't had time to be washed against the actuality of testing. Sims are a tool to understand comparative differences better, not something to base a canonistic belief structure on lol.

[Dangless]

Gentlemen... what's all this hubbub about really? Are we saying HTF Wush > UVLS? Are we trying to figure out what the best trinkets are for normals? What loot to push to receive from loot council? What is going to be best for heroic progression?

I'm of the school that your gameplay is going to outweigh your trinket chocie in basically every case. Of course, your trinket is going to contribute to success, but to a much lesser extent. Aren't the best players going to reforge/regem every time they get to a cockblock progression fight? Aren't you going to use a different trinket then depending on the fight? Is simcraft telling you that UVLS > HTF Wush by 300 dps? That doesn't mean much really. Sorry for the rant, but people get so steamed about what simcraft tells us and how to reforge and gem etc. What happened to the days when people talked about how to do fights better?

I'm from the exact same place you are. I'll end up running demo every fight we because my comp will have plenty of multi dotters, but a lack of burst AoE. Everyone is gearing for a boss that doesn't exist, where no movement is involved and a computer plays the game for you.

[Count Zero]

My problem with Demo's "burst aoe" is that it, more so I feel than the other specs, requires sacrificing your single-target in preparation for it.

Now, this is from my previous experience with Aff and Destro and my current experience of Demo. Ember generation nerf and the Nightfall change probably mean those two specs are sacrificing more for their aoe than they used to, so I'll have to do some experimenting to see how it still holds up ... but with Demo, stockpiling HoG/CW charges for upcoming aoe and fury spent on ImmoAura, and possibly holding Service: Felguard are significant investments ...

[Deleted]

My problem with Demo's "burst aoe" is that it, more so I feel than the other specs, requires sacrificing your single-target in preparation for it.

Now, this is from my previous experience with Aff and Destro and my current experience of Demo. Ember generation nerf and the Nightfall change probably mean those two specs are sacrificing more for their aoe than they used to, so I'll have to do some experimenting to see how it still holds up ... but with Demo, stockpiling HoG/CW charges for upcoming aoe and fury spent on ImmoAura, and possibly holding Service: Felguard are significant investments ...

If you really want to burst AoE as Affliction, you would have to take MF. That sacrifices a lot of damage by lacking AD.

Still I don't believe there will be a single fight where Affliction does not win, or at worst is tied depending on the situation of your raid. It's looking like the best spec among all classes for boss damage by a long shot, and shortening fights that significantly will always be a huge benefit.

[Deleted]

If you really want to burst AoE as Affliction, you would have to take MF. That sacrifices a lot of damage by lacking AD.

Still I don't believe there will be a single fight where Affliction does not win, or at worst is tied depending on the situation of your raid. It's looking like the best spec among all classes for boss damage by a long shot, and shortening fights that significantly will always be a huge benefit.

Then perhaps we should all enjoy it during the first week before the nerf bat comes by
If it is so much more powerful than anything else they won't let it through.

[Deleted]

Then perhaps we should all enjoy it during the first week before the nerf bat comes by
If it is so much more powerful than anything else they won't let it through.

I don't think its going to be so over the top that it requires a nerf bat. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

[PickleballAce]

There's still a chance for patch-day nerfs.

[Maleific]

There's still a chance for patch-day nerfs.

this is what i'm afraid of. =x

[Ogawdspider]

I don't think its going to be so over the top that it requires a nerf bat. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Basically this.. I know it is looking incredibly strong but still. Don't count the nerf bats until they hatch.. or swing..

[Mazda]

Aff is in a good place right now, sure. But I really don't like it when people say that it will outperform both other specs on every fight. I realize that it is "situation dependent", but RaidBots will have an interesting story to tell once the sample size is large enough. *coughdemocough*

[Nerraw]

I was just reading through the patch notes. I thought Soul Leech was capping out at 30% total hp in 5.4, but it seems the patch notes say 15%. Did I miss something?

[Deleted]

I was just reading through the patch notes. I thought Soul Leech was capping out at 30% total hp in 5.4, but it seems the patch notes say 15%. Did I miss something?

yeah, afaik it was 30% early in the ptr but got another nerf to 15%.

[DenniZ]

The patch notes are unclear about Soul Link in combination with GoSac. Does anyone know how GoSac changes Soul Link in 5.4 ?

[Deleted]

The patch notes are unclear about Soul Link in combination with GoSac. Does anyone know how GoSac changes Soul Link in 5.4 ?

It's the same as live, you get 20% extra health instead.

[Nerraw]

yeah, afaik it was 30% early in the ptr but got another nerf to 15%.

Well, shoot.

[sasofrass]

Affliction and Demo will both be strong, destruction I am a little uneasy about but I guess we'll have to see how that works. With the changes to the rppm trinkets, it does bring down the value of haste for all specs and, who knows, maybe with all the multitarget bosses and the new gear it might not be that bad.... lol...

[Sirjeize]

What i'm curious about and i can't seem to find a straight awnser anywhere is, if there is some "hard proof" what the highest DPS spec is going to be and what most likely the stat prio is going to be ?