Mage 5.4 Discussion

[Frost1129]

You did. MMO-Champ just didn't post it til now. Check the date on the Tweet (I was also the "OT" [Original Tweeter] and that was about 3-4 weeks ago)



No it's not. At top RNG, sure, as it SHOULD be, but on average, it's like #4-5.

I had this discussion with our druid last night. On persistent cleave / AoE fights fire is middle of the pack, but on average fire is king on single (or pseudo-single like twins). This was looking at raidbots averages, not top parses. I can try to find the exact query we used last night one I'm home from work.

[Polarthief]

Also this. I just don't want to get too excited til I start to see the results.

That's how I feel too.

[zomgDPS]

That isn't fair. Your prophetic statements are always obvious things. :P

Ha! (They're on to me Jim!)

I also prophesies every scenario, that way, I can at least be right some of the times lolo!


But in all seriousness, with Pardo, plus a whole bunch of developers being pulled off of Titan and put back onto WoW, coupled with the fact that WoW numbers are declining, D3 is being a relative failure, and Titan getting delayed, just means Blizz is now turning their full attention to WoW.

6.0 is going to be a magnum opus imho. A last 'hurrah' for WoW before full attention turns back onto Titan and WoW gets put on the back-burner.

[Polarthief]

6.0 is going to be a magnum opus imho. A last 'hurrah' for WoW before full attention turns back onto Titan and WoW gets put on the back-burner.

Which can lead many to believe that a lot of current class issues will be fixed, T17 will be amazing, and it'll most likely be a TBL expansion.

[Methusula]

Which can lead many to believe that a lot of current class issues will be fixed, T17 will be amazing, and it'll most likely be a TBL expansion.

They would have to be very careful with another legion expac. Who would the main boss be? I doubt it would be Sargeras this soon. Would it be Kil'Jaeden again? Thats kind of underwhelming. I'm sure it could be done and done well so I'm not discounting it. I'm just saying it would have to be done right.

Another issue in my opinion would be the mobs and the environments. We have had a lot of demonic influence in this game and demons have been around since the beginning. Both the demons themselves and their environments are showing their age. We would need quite a few new demon models to keep it fresh, as well as some new spin on the "demon motif" so to speak.

[zomgDPS]

Yea.. current frontrunner theories put it as either a Burning Legion expo or an Emerald dream one, with more people leaning towards the former.


Would make sense imho; use the last real WoW expo to take out Sargeras, wrap up that long time Warcraft storyline to make way for more space blueberries and ninja pandas and samurai fish nonesense that is plaguing WoW today.

It will be good to fight a real villan for a change, instead of this completely overused "good guy leader goes crazy, lets kill leader for PHAT PURPLIEZ!" trope that they have been shoving down our throats for so long now.

[Frost1129]

Yea.. current frontrunner theories put it as either a Burning Legion expo or an Emerald dream one, with more people leaning towards the former.


Would make sense imho; use the last real WoW expo to take out Sargeras, wrap up that long time Warcraft storyline to make way for more space blueberries and ninja pandas and samurai fish nonesense that is plaguing WoW today.

It will be good to fight a real villan for a change, instead of this completely overused "good guy leader goes crazy, lets kill leader for PHAT PURPLIEZ!" trope that they have been shoving down our throats for so long now.

Lore wise, there is no way in hell we can take out Sargeras. His coming into Azeroth would likely result in it's almost immediate destruction. I mean, some of the biggest baddies we've faced (old gods) really weren't even fully here. We kind of just kicked their hand off the edge of a cliff as they tried to climb up so they would fall back into their prison.

[Methusula]

Yea.. current frontrunner theories put it as either a Burning Legion expo or an Emerald dream one, with more people leaning towards the former.


Would make sense imho; use the last real WoW expo to take out Sargeras, wrap up that long time Warcraft storyline to make way for more space blueberries and ninja pandas and samurai fish nonesense that is plaguing WoW today.

It will be good to fight a real villan for a change, instead of this completely overused "good guy leader goes crazy, lets kill leader for PHAT PURPLIEZ!" trope that they have been shoving down our throats for so long now.

You know, that's a good point. They could make Sargeras the big bad next expansion. They could even easily fit Illidan's return/redemption as the new Demon Hunter class guru. Bring in Ashara's story arc in for one of the patches and essentially cleanse the bowels of this game for all new lore. Not saying all new lore would be and entirely good thing mind you, but they certainly could choose to go that direction.

[Polarthief]

They would have to be very careful with another legion expac. Who would the main boss be? I doubt it would be Sargeras this soon. Would it be Kil'Jaeden again? Thats kind of underwhelming. I'm sure it could be done and done well so I'm not discounting it. I'm just saying it would have to be done right.

Another issue in my opinion would be the mobs and the environments. We have had a lot of demonic influence in this game and demons have been around since the beginning. Both the demons themselves and their environments are showing their age. We would need quite a few new demon models to keep it fresh, as well as some new spin on the "demon motif" so to speak.

Sargeras was slated to be Level 100, but as we know, things obviously change.

Did anyone honestly expect Deathwing or Pandaland? Sargeras could easily become the Level 95 bad guy at T19 (or T20 should they want another 4 tier expansion like LK).

Obviously, though TBH I'd get pretty annoyed if they gave Warlocks new pet models before changing ours, our spells, or anything like that. (If they do them simultaneously, I wouldn't mind; just saying Warlocks got a ton of love this expansion. To get new pet models before we get spell updates... :\)

---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 11:45 AM ----------

Lore wise, there is no way in hell we can take out Sargeras. His coming into Azeroth would likely result in it's almost immediate destruction. I mean, some of the biggest baddies we've faced (old gods) really weren't even fully here. We kind of just kicked their hand off the edge of a cliff as they tried to climb up so they would fall back into their prison.

I don't see how Sargeras can be any different.

Not to mention, should we gain the assistance of The Titans (Remember Algalon?) and unite other factions (like The Dragonflights and other neutral factions) to save the world, I bet he could be FOUGHT in some way. If he's all that's left...

What I'd personally love is Horde and Alliance coming together for that fight, similar to what's to happen to SoO (except, no one really gives a shit about T16. Sargeras would have a much bigger impact on the worlds)

[Pandacally]

Next expansion is Sargeras/Burning Legion related, did you guy make the legendary quest line? The green fire that approaches Azeroth? The black prince warning about a greater evil coming? After Garrosh defeat, the Horde and Alliance will need to make peace to face the greatest enemy, I'm already pretty sure that with end of 5.4 they will announce the return of the burning legion. At least strongly hint it.
As for enemies, there are always plenty of retcon possibilities to introduce new demonic races, new bad-ass endbosses directly empowerd by sargeras, or even sargeras himself. Also there will able be "titan failsave" (like ulduar) features to counteract upon. So yeah, I'm not worried that they'll run out of good ideas any time soon.

[Deleted]

Without interrupting your talk about x-pac-ideas too much, I'd like to get back at least partially to the mage class.

The recent tweet was no surprise in terms of Frost (as I've explained in the haste-cap thread), but we might still see some small bandaids. What I've gathered though is that we likely won't actually see a big fire nerf. I've thought about it a bit, but GC is right:

Fire is working right now. More crit is actually not gonna overboost the specc, seeing how we've already passed the 50%-mark quite a while ago and from here on out it's just smoothing out RNG more and more. Generally, the problem with RNG is in many parts due to the opening burst, and even that has as much to do with trinkets proccing as it has with crits happening. That is gonna get a bit better, but its something everyone has to live with anyway.

Back in ICC, 100% crit was feasible, but it didn't matter. 70% crit was more then enough, and we're quite close to that already. Now, granted, Fire was silly OP back in ICC, but so were other classes (I remember fury). We've basically just come full circle. The difference this time around is that other speccs are also just as strong (warlocks) or at least not falling as far behind (like Frost). Granted, if I was a rogue right now, I'd likely kill myself, but thats just my perception ^^

Overall, we're gonna have to live with the idea that Fire is RNG-based, simply because the specc has become so easy and boring to play that there really is nothing else but RNG to differentiate one mage from another. I dislike that design, but I understand how it has more to do with me and my perception of what I feel my mage should be then with the specc. I'd like to cast more, and more meaningful spells, because everything but Pyros seems like filler right now, but so b it...

[zomgDPS]

I mean, some of the biggest baddies we've faced (old gods) really weren't even fully here.

I'm pretty sure they will find a way around lore issues.

Blizz has already shown, numerous times, that they do not hesitate in changing/retconning/deus ex machina-ing the lore in order to make the game work.

I suspect the fight itself will be of the "lets get all existing lore heros together and take on sargeras using some special "dragon soul"-esque
trinket which will bring sargy down to size" or some equally /rollseyes tongue-and-cheek mechanic.


Either way, lore definitely didn't stop them from bringing in space goats and ninja panda pups.

[Polarthief]

Without interrupting your talk about x-pac-ideas too much, I'd like to get back at least partially to the mage class.

The recent tweet was no surprise in terms of Frost (as I've explained in the haste-cap thread), but we might still see some small bandaids. What I've gathered though is that we likely won't actually see a big fire nerf. I've thought about it a bit, but GC is right:

Fire is working right now. More crit is actually not gonna overboost the specc, seeing how we've already passed the 50%-mark quite a while ago and from here on out it's just smoothing out RNG more and more. Generally, the problem with RNG is in many parts due to the opening burst, and even that has as much to do with trinkets proccing as it has with crits happening. That is gonna get a bit better, but its something everyone has to live with anyway.

Overall, we're gonna have to live with the idea that Fire is RNG-based, simply because the specc has become so easy and boring to play that there really is nothing else but RNG to differentiate one mage from another. I dislike that design, but I understand how it has more to do with me and my perception of what I feel my mage should be then with the specc. I'd like to cast more, and more meaningful spells, because everything but Pyros seems like filler right now, but so b it...

That wasn't recent. That was 4 weeks ago, and Frost is likely to get something, such as Frostbolt buff and removal of the debuff stacks. Both 5.2 and 5.3 were planned to add this, so I wouldn't be surprised if this finally gets implemented. Plus, it's a HUGE QoL boost when switching targets.

Yeah, but they'll be retarded and nerf it because of BiS gear, methinks. They've done even more retarded things in the past.

---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 11:53 AM ----------

I'm pretty sure they will find a way around lore issues.

Blizz has already shown, numerous times, that they do not hesitate in changing/retconning/deus ex machina-ing the lore in order to make the game work.

I suspect the fight itself will be of the "lets get all existing lore heros together and take on sargeras using some special "dragon soul"-esque
trinket which will bring sargy down to size" or some equally /rollseyes tongue-and-cheek mechanic.


Either way, lore definitely didn't stop them from bringing in space goats and ninja panda pups.

Entangling Roots can be used indoors, where roots have ZERO chance of growing.

Anyone remember when it was only usable outdoors?

[Deleted]

That wasn't recent. That was 4 weeks ago, and Frost is likely to get something, such as Frostbolt buff and removal of the debuff stacks. Both 5.2 and 5.3 were planned to add this, so I wouldn't be surprised if this finally gets implemented. Plus, it's a HUGE QoL boost when switching targets.

Yeah, but they'll be retarded and nerf it because of BiS gear, methinks. They've done even more retarded things in the past.

Recent as in it just hit the MMO-frontpage. Situation hasn't really changed since then.

The frostbolt-change is what I've mentioned: A bandaid fix. I wouldn't bet on the debuff going away though. Would be my first priority too, but it just seems to comfortable for PvP balance to be changed right now. Either way, they might make the specc slightly more viable, but they wont fix the underlying issue, which is to say that all of our gear choices become negative ones extremely quickly.

[Polarthief]

Recent as in it just hit the MMO-frontpage. Situation hasn't really changed since then.

The frostbolt-change is what I've mentioned: A bandaid fix. I wouldn't bet on the debuff going away though. Would be my first priority too, but it just seems to comfortable for PvP balance to be changed right now. Either way, they might make the specc slightly more viable, but they wont fix the underlying issue, which is to say that all of our gear choices become negative ones extremely quickly.

How to easily fix the PvP bullshit: +15% damage on FB, IL, and Welly bolts. -15% damage on FB, IL, and Welly bolts to players (essentially, canceling the buff).

PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED. MY GOD, THAT WAS SO GOD DAMNED HARD.

It's not like they're against doing PvP/PvE splits. All our bombs already deal significantly less in PvP. Why the fuck isn't the Frostbolt stacking any different? It's a god damn pain in the ass anytime you need to swap targets and you have a ton of procs.

[Deleted]

Shhhhh, don't feel the troll/random.

Just because you're bad doesn't mean you should be a jerk. I'm a random because i don't have nearly 4k posts on mmo champion? OK. How do you find the motivation to post that much anyways? The amount of time spent on here doesn't really justify why you're so bad, judging from your logs at least.

On topic of 5.4, I'm looking forward to the set bonuses. There's obviously a lot of micro managing we can presumably be able do, to optimise our dps, judging from our tier set bonuses. I guess it will depend on the encounters tho how much of a role they'll fill. (:

Infracted. Do not derail threads.

[Polarthief]

Just because you're bad doesn't mean you should be a jerk. I'm a random because i don't have nearly 4k posts on mmo champion? OK. How do you find the motivation to post that much anyways? The amount of time spent on here doesn't really justify why you're so bad, judging from your logs at least.

Oh, I legit thought you were trolling, but NOW you are.

So... yeah...

[Deleted]

Apology accepted!

[Tobedeleted123]

Just because you're bad doesn't mean you should be a jerk. I'm a random because i don't have nearly 4k posts on mmo champion? OK. How do you find the motivation to post that much anyways? The amount of time spent on here doesn't really justify why you're so bad, judging from your logs at least.

On topic of 5.4, I'm looking forward to the set bonuses. There's obviously a lot of micro managing we can presumably be able do, to optimise our dps, judging from our tier set bonuses. I guess it will depend on the encounters tho how much of a role they'll fill. (:

Yet you're the one being aggresive and making it personal, not him. You're new to the board (unless it's a multiaccount, which is, afaik, forbidden) and you start offending people right away, not a really good start. Maybe the postcount matter a bit after all...

[Polarthief]

Yet you're the one being aggresive and making it personal, not him. You're new to the board (unless it's a multiaccount, which is, afaik, forbidden) and you start offending people right away, not a really good start. Maybe the postcount matter a bit after all...

Kinda how I feel. I legit didn't know if he was trolling but whatever.

Anyway, back on topic. MAGE STUFF.