5.4 Changes

[Flaks]

There is no changing the minds of people like you. You stamp your feet, fingers in ears and insist on conspiracy theories and whiners.

I have backed up my claims. You have done no such thing. I really don't understand how I'm the one with my fingers in my ears. Make a point, back it up and I'll gladly listen and debate it with you. Hell, I could very much be convinced to agree with you...if you make your point instead of calling everyone whiners and conspiracy theorists.

[cFortyfive]

Dat evil conspiracy of community feedback having impact on development decisions. It never happens and is totally delusional.
Well at least having a good laugh is healthy.

[Darkfriend]

There is no changing the minds of people like you. You stamp your feet, fingers in ears and insist on conspiracy theories and whiners.

Where is your faith my brother.

[Brakthir]

Conspiracy theories referring to the "OMG NOTE HOW WHEN ACTIVISION TOOK OVER QUALITY OF BLIZZARD GAMES WENT DOWN". I don't need to back up my statements because...well...it's pretty clear to people with a brain.

[senturion]

I've played warrior only in t15. Here are my observations as an Oceanic player in a 25m, 11/13 HM semi hc guild.

1. This tier, there are no fights where fury is anywhere close to essential. Infact, hard to justify if more than 1 is ever needed and often than not, both 25 and 10 m can be successful without ever needing a fury

2. On the contrary, warlocks, mages, DKs (for leishen) are almost a necessary for any guild pushing HM content. Rogues have trumped our class in both single target as well as personal survivability by a mile. Other classes like WW are harder to play but potentially much stronger than fury (so there's some sort of payoff for being excellent).

3. Threads for warlock, Mage, boomkin, dk and rogues LFG seems to have much better response versus DPS warrior LFG. Sadly, prot warriors are also low in demand versus prot pally and monks this tier.

I think 5.4 would not be much of a difference.

[Anuibus]

I don't need to back up my statements

Then you're not giving an argument.

[Brakthir]

No, I'm pointing out flaws in his reasoning.

[Darkfriend]

You don't need to provide proof to disprove an argument made without proof. Besides "everything ends in nuclear war" that is pretty much debate 101.

[Flaks]

Conspiracy theories referring to the "OMG NOTE HOW WHEN ACTIVISION TOOK OVER QUALITY OF BLIZZARD GAMES WENT DOWN". I don't need to back up my statements because...well...it's pretty clear to people with a brain.

Not even once, in any single one of my posts, ever said anything to that effect.

I have provided proof, if you refuse to acknowledge it or provide counter examples then so be it. But don't act like everyone else is retarded because they don't agree with you.

Like I said, I want this to be a debate. Not a shouting contest of "NO, YOU'RE WRONG". Counter my points, tell me my examples are weak or SOMETHING, anything to put weight behind it. I WANT to be proven wrong.

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You don't need to provide proof to disprove an argument made without proof. Besides "everything ends in nuclear war" that is pretty much debate 101.

Read the previous page.

[Deleted]

Dat evil conspiracy of community feedback having impact on development decisions. It never happens and is totally delusional.
Well at least having a good laugh is healthy.

Explain KJC to me.
Please, i really wanna be in your camp but that shit is black on white...

[Senen]

Dat evil conspiracy of community feedback having impact on development decisions.

Yeah, like if someone would listen to his customers and take decisions accordingly.
The palaprot is a perfect example of "sometimes, Blizzard doesn't care at all, sometimes Blizzard listens", and yes, it seems to be correlated with the number of people stating a fact.

On the MoP beta, some palaprot said that Haste will eventually have A LOT of value for palaprot, Blizzard did nothing. I can't remember a single changement in beta to answer this.
Six months later, every palaprot play with Haste>* and Blizzard realizes what he's done, he want to change it and then many many palaprots tell Blizzard that they do like playing with haste. Consequently, no real nerf to Haste has been done for 5.2, allowing Palaprot to be overpowered for six more months.

I'm not saying it's always the number of whine that lead to a nerf/up. But obviously, Blizzard listens to the playerbase to some extent. And obviously, a massive feedback in one single direction may sometimes have more impact that some warriors saying "we need a up" and some warriors saying "lolnope, you're just bad".

[Hand Banana]

180% weapon damage on bladestorm and still 60 sec cd (?) is a great pvp change for warriors. It gives us a fairly threatening cd outside of reck/banner that also increases our grip. I will probably be running BS and stormbolt since we do still need a stun. All of the QoL weaponswapping changes arms is getting along with hamstring off the gcd, warriors might actually get out of the pvp ditch they are currently in. They still need more single target damage though.

[meathead]

No, I'm pointing out flaws in his reasoning.

your crazy if you do not think blizz listens to QQ.how about this,the players pay to test blizz own game.the players are the testers and report stuff back to blizz.how on earth you dont think blizz listens to QQ is beyond me.

[Beefkow]

I am so glad blizzard implemented bladestorm buff, arms warriors will actually be slightly scarier than usual.

On another note, just bladestormed 2 noobs for 90k crits (with berserking) each with sweeping strikes buff on, it was fun! (this occured before the 180% buff).

[meathead]

180% weapon damage on bladestorm and still 60 sec cd (?) is a great pvp change for warriors. It gives us a fairly threatening cd outside of reck/banner that also increases our grip. I will probably be running BS and stormbolt since we do still need a stun. All of the QoL weaponswapping changes arms is getting along with hamstring off the gcd, warriors might actually get out of the pvp ditch they are currently in. They still need more single target damage though.

yeah its a little bit of un-nerfing BS,lets remember BS is nerfed into the ground and it was the last talent "top" for arms.blizz still need to buff MS and op if arms is going to be good again in pvp and pve.its sad to see the major talents of arms nerfed into the ground,the class as a hole is one big nerf.so if they buff MS is not really a buff,but rather un nerfing it a little.just like they are doing with BS atm.

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I am so glad blizzard implemented bladestorm buff, arms warriors will actually be slightly scarier than usual.

On another note, just bladestormed 2 noobs for 90k crits (with berserking) each with sweeping strikes buff on, it was fun! (this occured before the 180% buff).

call it what it is un-nerfed "some" its not a buff at all.

its like saying you let me borrow 5 bucks and i only repay you $2.50-i did re pay you but not in full.your still missing out on another $2.50.

[Beefkow]

Meathead is right, blizzard is basically unnerfing MS and OP if they buff it again (remember when it was 200% MS? and 125% OP?)

We should blame TFB for all of the nerfs that occured.

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call it what it is un-nerfed "some" its not a buff at all.

Wait, when is it considered an un-nerf? last time i saw it was probably 150% weapon damage, then went down to 120% so i would call that a buff if its going over the % value otherwise enlighten me with the past, because i don't remember alot.

[Dawnrage]

I mean, if you legitimately believe that Blizzard, as one of the most successful companies in gaming, both commercially and critically, listens to whining on forums (which constitute a minority of players, by the way), then you are seriously deluded. They're professionals who have been doing this job for a long time. You may not agree with their current balancing team and hell, even I get angry now and then at their decisions, but trust me. They're not applying fixes because of whiners. They're applying fixes because they want the game to be balanced.

I think most of us do realize that Blizzard doesn't just make changes left and right solely based on QQers, but I think being on the other side of the spectrum like you are and being so naive makes you just as bad as those people.

Blizzard precisely being a professional company does listen to feedback (and most often, the feedback comes from people who "speak" the loudest). Have you not seen any of GC's tweets about how "the majority" says this or that, yet you never see this majority speaking anywhere on a public forum. This is apparently just people talking to GC in person or some other form of feedback they have via some other source. They do care about what people think - why wouldn't they?

I don't even know how to convince someone who thinks the world is so black and white and that Blizzard being as "successful and professional" are not simply human like you and I that operate exactly on that notion. Do you think they are robots who act simply on what they are programmed to do?

Explain this to me. Why does the PTR exist? Why do they seek feedback from anyone? Why do changes happen on a random whim sometimes and then get reverted just as fast? If Blizzard does and tests everything so perfectly and professional, they should not require the communities help in so many things (and how apparent it is when they don't - you are a raider, you should know what happens without PTR testing for raids).

Believe me, I wish they were capable of not being human and making mistakes - but they are not. Wake up and smell the coffee bro.

[meathead]

Meathead is right, blizzard is basically unnerfing MS and OP if they buff it again (remember when it was 200% MS? and 125% OP?)

We should blame TFB for all of the nerfs that occured.

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Wait, when is it considered an un-nerf? last time i saw it was probably 150% weapon damage, then went down to 120% so i would call that a buff if its going over the % value otherwise enlighten me with the past, because i don't remember alot.

right,i would call something a buff IF it wnet over its original strength/#'s.if i remember correctly i think BS was upwards of 200% weapon damage back in wrath.back then if a warriors BS on your ass you were in a world of hurt.now they just stand they and lol @ us.

also i think MS was 225% weapon damage and a 50% healing debuff back in BC.one things for sure MS use to hit hard as shit.i cant be 100% sure on the #'s but im close.maybe it was 200% weapon damage and then + more damage from talents. im 100% sure on the healing debuff # .BC was a long time ago and i was a noob lol.we had more health more Armour and hit harder then any class in the game.the head dev even stated that with everything being equal "player skill and gear" that no class can go toe to toe with an arms warrior.kalgan "i think was his name and he now is or was working on titian" was the head dev before GC got to blizz,yes kalgan mained a warrior .


remember this

http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=2438606_1

[Brakthir]

There is a difference between feedback from PTR/testing and outright forum whining on live.

[Senen]

the head dev even stated that with everything being equal "player skill and gear" that no class can go toe to toe with an arms warrior.kalgan "i think was his name and he now is or was working on titian" was the head dev before GC got to blizz,yes kalgan mained a warrior .

If it's true, that was a pretty bad design.