Resto changes and new things in 5.4

[kendro1200]

Ysera's Gift: don't know if it is passive or what. The healing is meh but I think it's free. Maybe it's better than CW

Was strongly indicated that it's a passive. So you have a choice between a passive means of self healing, a long cd sizable self heal, or a smaller cd targetable smaller heal.

[Sprucelee]

People are forgetting that YG is not a true smart heal. It will heal yourself even if you have a 1 HP deficit.

It will have far more overhealing than people estimate with the "self healing if not at maximum health" caveat.

[vow1152]

For everyone that is unsure unsure, Ysera's Gift is a passive heal with unlimited duration in the current PTR build.

[Whydrood]

Wow people really don't read on these forums do they? This line of questioning about YG has already been addressed, on page 4. I mean this EXACT same post was made on the last page Spruce. CW has two things that people seem to be missing that makes it worse than YG for resto. Its on the GCD (meaning you have to squeeze it somewhere into your rotation), and costs a substantial amount of mana (a tad more than rejuv). Another thing CW has against it is that for it to actually start healing, your target must take damage AFTER it is applied.

As far as YG overhealing, it doesn't matter if you overheal with it. In fact in an ICC 25 I did earlier in the week, YG had as much overhealing as RJ.

I think a lot of people are thinking Ysera's Gift will be OP and thus be nerfed but it's actually not as great as you might think. The reason I say this is because it's not exactly a smart heal. The spell says it will heal an injured ally if you are not at full health meaning it ALWAYS heals you first if the wording on the spell can be believed. So for example, if you have a melee that is at 25% health and you're at 99% health it will heal you first. So on aoe pulse phases it's only ever going to heal you and not the lowest target. Because of this I feel it's nice but it's not OP really.

And I think you underestimate how good this actually is. It is a self heal, meaning you can focus a bit less on yourself, that NEVER goes to waste during an encounter. Whether it only heals you for 1%, or it heals that rogue you were talking about for 5% - the heal isn't wasted. It doesn't matter who it is healing - because its a free, mindless smart heal that never goes away.

"Never goes away" - even if you are out of/low on mana, its usefulness never goes away. It keeps trucking.

[Sprucelee]

I read them all. Your first post made a rough calculation assuming a perfect "no overheal" Situation stating 5200 HPS. You then made a comment that it is being undervalued because even if it does overheal, it lets you focus on others, and not yourself, and is awlays "doing something".

My post is saying that your first estimate (which you never revised) and others following it are too high, and the claims it is OP are a bit too soon until we see the true numbers.

As far as YG overhealing, it doesn't matter if you overheal with it

Yes it does, it directly impacts the decision between using it, CW or Renewal. It also effects these claims of "OP", and thinking it will be nerfed.

Additionally, I used the word "forgetting" purposefully, since people are repeatedly doing so (in regards to the self heal at any value less than maximum health) on ALL the druid/healing forums.

Reading =/= comprehension

[Whydrood]

I read them all. Your first post made a rough calculation assuming a perfect "no overheal" Situation stating 5200 HPS. You then made a comment that it is being undervalued because even if it does overheal, it lets you focus on others, and not yourself, and is awlays "doing something".

My post is saying that your first estimate (which you never revised) and others following it are too high, and the claims it is OP are a bit too soon until we see the true numbers.



Yes it does, it directly impacts the decision between using it, CW or Renewal. It also effects these claims of "OP", and thinking it will be nerfed.

Additionally, I used the word "forgetting" purposefully, since people are repeatedly doing so (in regards to the self heal at any value less than maximum health) on ALL the druid/healing forums.

Reading =/= comprehension

How is this for comprehension:
Even if it was only 2500 HPS, it is still better than CW. Why? Speaking from strictly a PVE standpoint:

A.) It costs nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. No mana, no rage, no energy, no GCD, no macro tieing it to other CD's, nothing.
B.) Compare it to Renewal. Renewal gives 30% of your max health back to you every 2 minutes. 30% of your max health with Ysera's gift would be returned to you in 30 seconds (without CD's - keeping in mind Might of the Ursoc lasts 20 seconds that is at least 3-4 ticks of Ysera's gift). Assuming no overheals, thats 75% LESS healing that Renewal gives verses what Ysera's gift would give you over 2 minutes. Yes renewal is still stronger in the short term, but even used with Might of the Ursoc, the extra healing you get from that burst of Renewal is made up within 15 seconds with Ysera's Gift (someone needs to check my math - I really just estimated these numbers)
C.) Compare it to CW. CW Costs mana, and is on the GCD. Not so much of an issue for Feral/Guardian/Boomkin, bigger problem for Resto.

- For feral/guardian druids (assuming 2 ticks and 1 crit per use), this averages out to be about a 108k heal every 30 seconds (2 ticks of 27000 + 1 tick of 54000). Assuming your average feral kitty at 522 ilvl has about 500k HP (meaning YG would tick for 25000 each tick), you would return more HP with YG in a shorter amount of time (25 seconds). Assuming your average bear at 522 ilvl has about 700k HP (meaning YG would tick for 35000 each tick), you would return more HP with YG (15 seconds). This means you would use CW on CD and make it part of your DPS/Tank rotation and spend a GCD on it.

- For boomkins and resto, it gets a bit more complicated. For boomkins or resto it means adding this into your rotation for it to be of any use. Lets assume however that a boomkin or resto for some reason chooses this as a talent for PVE. Lets also assume this boomkin/resto has 500k HP and 30k SP. CW does 12349+104% SP for 3 ticks (or about 44k each tick) - assuming at least 1 crit per cast, thats about 175k healing every 30 seconds (not counting harmony). Renewal would do 150k every 120 seconds or 37500 every 30 seconds, but only to yourself. YG would do 150k every 30 seconds to yourself or anyone around you who needs the heal if you are at 100%.

Now lets look at why CW is bad for resto/boomkin: Rejuv does 4324+39.2% SP for 5 ticks (initial tick, plus the hot tick). With 30k SP thats about 16k per tick of rejuv - assuming at least 2 crits per cast, thats about 112k heals over 12 seconds (not counting harmony or any other buff). With no CD, rejuv can do 224k every 24 seconds. The reason I bring up rejuv is that it costs 14.5% of your base mana, and CW costs 14.8%. If you were a boomkin, what reason would you take a talent when you have an ability that does the exact same thing, has no CD, costs a comparable amount of mana, and with the moonbeast glyph can be cast in moonkin form? If you were resto, what reason would you take CW when you have a spell that does the exact same thing, benefits from genesis, and doesn't require the target to take damage for it to heal them?

As far as your comment about YG's overhealing, the ONLY reason overhealing is of any concern to any healer is because overheals waste mana, CD's, etc. Its the reason we use WG instead of tranq during light raid damage. It is the reason we don't 4 heal fights that are easily handled by 2 healers. Its the reason you don't spam a rogue with regrowth after he runs through bad on the ground instead of going around it. However if a spell does not waste mana, CD's, etc, then how can overhealing from it be a concern? Yes it overheals - but that overhealing didn't cost you anything. Its like going to Wendy's, winning a prize, and having to decide between 1 large frosty every 2 days, 3 small frosties that cost you 99 cents, or 1 free small frosty every day for the rest of your life. (No Purchase Necessary. Must be 18 with a valid drivers licence or state ID. Limit 1 offer per customer per day. Offer not valid in Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean. See our website for Official Rules and Conditions. Not a real contest.).

The reasons above are why people are saying YG is way more powerful than it should be in its current form. This isn't to say that Renewal and CW won't have a place in the guardian/feral/boomkin toolkit, because they obviously have their niche uses and aren't completely awful choices - but for resto PVE I just can't see any justification for taking either of these other 2 talents as powerful as YG is in its current form.

[baskev]

okay treid it on ptr..
here are my toughts:
New - : nice talent..heals very nice.
the genisis spell: think that works nice if you need 2 quickly need al the healing from you rejuvanation
the Dream of Cenarius talent is also nice: did with 516 ptr non gemmed/enchanted gear. 38dps/healing. will be higher with better gear etc. looks nice as a filler. if you combine it with Ysera's Gift it is nice for fights where healing is low in some phases. that you can dps and heal at the same time. but still hearth of the wild 6% int + new bonus seems better.

1 thing i hate so far....the new schroom. yeah they where kinda op so glad they nerfed it. but placing a schroom is stupid now. it use to be 1 click to place 1 click to explode. ( just point your mouse where you want it) now its search for the person who is closest to the place you want it. then click the person press the spell to place it. okay overhealing is on the schroom but still kinda makes it more clunkier then it was

[devildjz]

Done some testing on the PTR

Yasera's Gift:
People saying about this talent is Nice or OP 5% Heal of ur HP every 5 Sec if ur HP is full around 1 mine 12 Ticks of it with my current HP healing around 29K each time the thing is cannot control this healing even i 99.99% HP it will heal me rather than other player in the raid in my opinion in raid situation i dont think it will be much OP there cause al most all the time we will get some dmg there but at some PVP situation it can be good but not so much PVPer side so cant comment on that.

Genisis
Checked on PTR and as some people above also mentioned how it works what i saw is that it will be alot mana consumption there putting reju on the raid then use gensis to accelerate the healing of reju, as some one mention above that wht if reju remaing 2 sec of it wht will happen there, so the result i get is nothing more it will heal wht ticks are remaining Blizz tried to give us some thing like Uplift but it is not how it gonna work it will just expire our reju faster to heal and then we need to blanket the raid again and spent alot of mana for that.

Soul of the Forest
haste Increase by 100% rather than 75%, seriously this talent is good with t14 set but out of that it is not that amazing talent alot of people still chooses it but compare to Incarnation that talent is still behing. I will rather some other changes in SoF rather than haste changes, they can put some thing of WG rather than Haste increase Liek few more extra target or any thing else rather than only heal or Healing share.

Natures Vigil
The current changes are quite good in Resto Spec 25% of Healing Done converted into dmg to near by enemies adn Healing to near by allies only direct Healing Like HT, Nourish and healing touch but it is still quite weak instead of Incarnation cuase most of the druid use less direct heal.

Dream of Ceneraius

well simple we got Smite Healing if there is any boss like Horridon in upcoming chages we can do quite good healing there. at my current gear lvl it heals around 45=50 normallt Crrit 100K


Heart of the Wild
While in resto if we use heart of the wild out healing also increasd by 25% for the duration of HotW.

as for Looking into the set bounses i feel it is just kind of useless set Bonus
T16 2Set 20% crit with every ironbark which is quite useless for the resto druid atm my crit scale good with higher lvl gear.
T16 4Set Our all kind of Hots except efflo when ever they crit gives us a buff which put Living Seed 80% of the healing which in my opinion it is quite useless cuase we mostly use the Regrowth mostly Healign touch mostly with NS it will be alot mana cunsumption i will prefer the reverse of that 4 set like when ever our direct heal crit all kind of out hots Crit put living seed of XX%.


Glyph of Efflorence

this Glyph atm not in the game

[stormgust]

If you were resto, what reason would you take CW when you have a spell that does the exact same thing, benefits from genesis, and doesn't require the target to take damage for it to heal them?

Last time I checked every other boss came with a big-hit mechanic on a set timer, which more often than not coincides with CW CD (or is slightly above).

[devildjz]

Ill Stream Next time when i goto PTR
http://www.twitch.tv/devildjz

We can test the new things there
any one who wannna join Devildjzrem@Brill EU

[vow1152]

If you were resto, what reason would you take CW when you have a spell that does the exact same thing, benefits from genesis, and doesn't require the target to take damage for it to heal them?

A 25k heal every 5 seconds more so than not is incapable of saving someones life. If you want to mindlessly pad meters then sure YG may be better but in terms of top end raiding the 30 sec CD CW and it's capability to heal someone that absolutely needs it is far more valuable for a resto druid. Now take that as you want but this is coming from a resto druid that raids with <Vigil> US 4th 25 man where we have to absolutely min max everything. I don't see the value in a meter padding spell where I could choose another talent in the tier that gives something of meaningful value(saving a life).

[Deleted]

Natures Vigil
The current changes are quite good in Resto Spec 25% of Healing Done converted into dmg to near by enemies adn Healing to near by allies only direct Healing Like HT, Nourish and healing touch but it is still quite weak instead of Incarnation cuase most of the druid use less direct heal.

Patchnotes / datamining doesnt say direct healing, it says single-target. That includes regrowth, Rejuv(!) and Swiftmend (The upfront portion) and lvl 30 talents. The change is a huge buff and is imo the biggest in this patch.

[Deleted]

Recently switched from a Resto druid > Resto shaman. These changes was like a smack in the face, even tho i hardly think that they will make it to live all of them.

But this will definiatly makes resto druids much better, i like the shroom change aswell as 3 GCD's + 1 for blooming was way to much for reapplying then during high raid damage, the utility is definiatly worth the healing nerf.

I also like the idea of Genesis, tho i like it more from a 10m PoV than a 25m.

also in my mind there will be no other option than going YG for 2nd tier talent, as it just seems much more viable than 30% hp every 2 min.

But i seriously doubt that all these changes will see live, as they all seem kinda OP.

[Whydrood]

Last time I checked every other boss came with a big-hit mechanic on a set timer, which more often than not coincides with CW CD (or is slightly above).

We have better tools already in our spellbook to handle "big-hit" mechanics on a set timer. Lifebloom, Wild Mushroom, Nature's Swiftness, Iron Bark, etc.

A 25k heal every 5 seconds more so than not is incapable of saving someones life. If you want to mindlessly pad meters then sure YG may be better but in terms of top end raiding the 30 sec CD CW and it's capability to heal someone that absolutely needs it is far more valuable for a resto druid. Now take that as you want but this is coming from a resto druid that raids with <Vigil> US 4th 25 man where we have to absolutely min max everything. I don't see the value in a meter padding spell where I could choose another talent in the tier that gives something of meaningful value(saving a life).

I am sorry, did you just say CW had the capability to heal someone that absolutely needed it? Because that is completely false. CW is not a reactionary spell. If someone "absolutely needs a heal" you use regrowth. CW is placed it on someone you know is going to take damage large enough for the heal not to go to waste (before they take said damage). In a raiding environment this limits it to very few raid members (mainly the tanks). In CW's current form Its short duration, semi-weak heal, and large mana cost makes this far from the go-to talent for a min maxer and is a situational talent at best - which is why people were taking NS over this talent for the majority of the fights the past 2 tiers. Unless it is revamped, CW will continue to be a situational talent.

[vow1152]

I am sorry, did you just say CW had the capability to heal someone that absolutely needed it? Because that is completely false. CW is not a reactionary spell. If someone "absolutely needs a heal" you use regrowth. CW is placed it on someone you know is going to take damage large enough for the heal not to go to waste (before they take said damage). In a raiding environment this limits it to very few raid members (mainly the tanks). In CW's current form Its short duration, semi-weak heal, and large mana cost makes this far from the go-to talent for a min maxer and is a situational talent at best - which is why people were taking NS over this talent for the majority of the fights the past 2 tiers. Unless it is revamped, CW will continue to be a situational talent.

1.) In top end raiding you know when tanks are going to take a big hit for the most part and for the situations where we don't then NS comes in to save the day. I would love to be able to take CW over NS but I can't even count how many people the instant 250k+ heal from NS has saved.
2). CW heals for 50k every 2 seconds for 6 seconds(with the potential to crit) which makes it more mana efficient than a rejuv at the cost of 100 extra mana.
3.) I understand that YG is a strong talent, don't get me wrong here, but I'm hoping some of what I'm saying here will make some people realise it isn't as "OMG THIS NEEDS NERFED OP" as some are making it out to be. CW is a very strong option (if used properl) as well.

[Myrrar]

We have better tools already in our spellbook to handle "big-hit" mechanics on a set timer. Lifebloom, Wild Mushroom, Nature's Swiftness, Iron Bark, etc.



I am sorry, did you just say CW had the capability to heal someone that absolutely needed it? Because that is completely false. CW is not a reactionary spell. If someone "absolutely needs a heal" you use regrowth. CW is placed it on someone you know is going to take damage large enough for the heal not to go to waste (before they take said damage). In a raiding environment this limits it to very few raid members (mainly the tanks). In CW's current form Its short duration, semi-weak heal, and large mana cost makes this far from the go-to talent for a min maxer and is a situational talent at best - which is why people were taking NS over this talent for the majority of the fights the past 2 tiers. Unless it is revamped, CW will continue to be a situational talent.

YG is still just a meter padder. The amount of time it's actually going to be giving health that is or eventually will save someone's life is...well, never. It heals 1 target for a little more than a RJ tick, a lot less than a Rj crit, every 5 seconds. It's just a nice heal on the side.

If it group wide or raid wide with less healing like HST was maybe. The extremely minimal healing it does either isn't going to make a difference when damage is high or just just going to lead to other spells overheal when the dmg isn't.

As for CW, it's absolutely a preemptive spells, you're correct, but the heal isn't weak. The mana cost is 1/2 of HT and RG and it heals for almost 50% more than both spread out over 6 seconds. We also will probably be dropping the RG glyph. Anytime you know the tanks, or even a single target, is going to get a beat down it's far better than meter padding YG.

If there isn't a mechanic like that, YG is clearly better. That's the point of MoP's glyph system, changing per fight as necessary.

YG is in no way even close to being OP, it's not even very good, it will be taken IF CW can't be utilized well. You have the choice between a completely useless talent, a situational single target talent, or a padding meter talent.

[Sprucelee]

I put YG right up there with Treants. Treants currently can do 5-10% of my healing, and is fun to play with on farm and a couple fights. But at the end of the day I find their healing to be qualitatively lacking. Raids don't need more weak smart healing. There is so much of that already flying around it is ridiculous. So any encounter that has the need for periodic single target healing, it will be the clear choice IMO. It doesn't even need to be the tanks, there are also a wide array of debuffs, adds, and etc., on raid members that will often fit this talent as well.

[Dangerfield]

YG is still just a meter padder. The amount of time it's actually going to be giving health that is or eventually will save someone's life is...well, never. It heals 1 target for a little more than a RJ tick, a lot less than a Rj crit, every 5 seconds. It's just a nice heal on the side.

If it group wide or raid wide with less healing like HST was maybe. The extremely minimal healing it does either isn't going to make a difference when damage is high or just just going to lead to other spells overheal when the dmg isn't.

As for CW, it's absolutely a preemptive spells, you're correct, but the heal isn't weak. The mana cost is 1/2 of HT and RG and it heals for almost 50% more than both spread out over 6 seconds. We also will probably be dropping the RG glyph. Anytime you know the tanks, or even a single target, is going to get a beat down it's far better than meter padding YG.

If there isn't a mechanic like that, YG is clearly better. That's the point of MoP's glyph system, changing per fight as necessary.

YG is in no way even close to being OP, it's not even very good, it will be taken IF CW can't be utilized well. You have the choice between a completely useless talent, a situational single target talent, or a padding meter talent.

How the hell is it metre padding? You are effectively saying that using rejuvenation is padding because the 2 spells are almost identical in function, except one costs 0 mana and is a smart heal. Resto druids have never been about healing spike dmg (until somewhat recently with mushrooms) but continued high amounts of raid wide damage. We are not in the raid to save people from death with a quick top ups but keep the entire raid as a whole sitting as high as possible. Leave the lifesaving to classes that are built to do that with efficient and powerful spot heals, and CW certainly won't do that as in peril targets will be topped before the first tick will even go off. The only situation it will be effective is when the entire raid is taking big aoe damage in which place YG will be just as effective.

Are you really trying to say that all HoTs are padding? because that makes me lol

[vow1152]

How the hell is it metre padding? You are effectively saying that using rejuvenation is padding because the 2 spells are almost identical in function, except one costs 0 mana and is a smart heal. Resto druids have never been about healing spike dmg (until somewhat recently with mushrooms) but continued high amounts of raid wide damage. We are not in the raid to save people from death with a quick top ups but keep the entire raid as a whole sitting as high as possible. Leave the lifesaving to classes that are built to do that with efficient and powerful spot heals, and CW certainly won't do that as in peril targets will be topped before the first tick will even go off. The only situation it will be effective is when the entire raid is taking big aoe damage in which place YG will be just as effective.

Are you really trying to say that all HoTs are padding? because that makes me lol

You clearly do not understand the role of healers in top end raiding situations. If you're just in the average guild that doesn't care about progression, sure use YG and blame other people when someone dies. However from my experience with raiding in the top 5 US most of us will have the exact opposite mindset. Every healer in the raid can and needs to do their job to keep people from dying either from lag or stupidity. YG is mindless padding that doesn't do a lifesaving amount of healing.

[Trubo]

Ysera's Gift seems more useful for PvP than anything else unless they allow Renewal to be cast while stunned.