5.4 KJC changes.

[Arrogant Bastard]

What is the reason for having to rework the other specs mid-expansion?

I do not, and I have yet to, see any actual factual proof that KjC causes Warlocks to be stronger than all others by a significant margin on any fight in ToT


You keep talking like this has to happen, right now. I just don't see why it has to happen now and can't be done between expansions, when significant changes to playstyles has traditionally occured.


Please, enlighten me, but I just don't see it yet.

Because it does not need to be changed at the current time.

This is simply a knee-jerk reaction for two reasons:

First and foremost, Blizzard hates the fact that the vast majority of people are using KjC. It takes away from the entire design approach of this expansion. The concept (which failed) that each talent choice would be just as strong as the next; there would no longer be any cookie-cutter specs or preferred talents. People pick KjC for a few reasons and they revolve around enjoying the play-style/gameplay and disliking the other choices in the tier (especially AV which is seen as horridly useless and bad design). MF is a great choice but if you are not in a guild that is pushing 13/13H then the fun factor and gameplay changes that KjC bring can and do outweigh the benefit of MF.

The second is due in part to the complainers who dislike the fact that Warlocks get such a vast gameplay change that they cannot have. It stands out as a waving red flag, in much the same way as Chaos Bolt did pre-nerf. People whole hardly ignored many other abilities that were just as overpowered. Nothing else literally screamed across their screen such as the green bolt flying in for a critical. Oddly enough with the resilience changes and the change to PvP Power CB now hits like a wet noodle. Are they going to revert the change to CB? No. Why not? After all the purpose of the nerf was do to the supposed 'insane burst'.

[Deleted]

BIG update, source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=111#2202

Is it bad to dance in the street with this? I'm dancing in the street with this change.

[Gohzerlock]

Is it bad to dance in the street with this? I'm dancing in the street with this change.

Certainly a step in the right direction.

[Deleted]

Certainly a step in the right direction.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying this is gonna be the best change ever, and I doubt that this will be without balancing issues itself, but at least people can see the Blizzard IS trying to do their best to replace KjC and Warlock's problems, and not give the "in DS they only said "there's an expansion coming up" so I don't like them".

[kendro1200]

Certainly a step in the right direction.

It is better. I still hate the drastic change, but in the very least they are compromising significantly from their earlier stance, perhaps the first pass was done solely for the purpose of making us more accepting of this change. We still get the fun of having something to cast on the move, while not keeping up a full rotation. I do dislike the fact that I did use fel fire occasionally for extending corruption as demo when buffs were up and I was short on fury. Technically if you have the procs up it's a better button to push than just the corruption button. I could probably stomach this though, and it finally gives fel flame a real job than it's previously failed attempt to mimic ice lance with warlock flavor. Now it just mimics scorch >.> Can we just summon suicidal imps to throw at people instead? In seriousness though, I hope they do remember to drop fel flame's mana cost to something reasonable, or flat out free.

[Juicebox]

As a shadowpriest I'd cry with happiness getting something similar... Together with the change to MG for affliction it doesn't seem too bad for you now.
Shadow on the other hand is stuck with 0 spells to cast when moving if you got a UVLS SW:P rolling.
Don't get me wrong, I see your issues. I'm just saying you could have had it much worse.

[Vulcanasm]

As a shadowpriest I'd cry with happiness getting something similar... Together with the change to MG for affliction it doesn't seem too bad for you now.
Shadow on the other hand is stuck with 0 spells to cast when moving if you got a UVLS SW:P rolling.
Don't get me wrong, I see your issues. I'm just saying you could have had it much worse.

Don't think we disagree with you. The problem is that our class has been balanced around KJC and their attempt to rebalance it as a cooldown is, so far, proving half-hearted and clumsy (not to mention it pretends Destro doesn't exist).

[Arctorus]

As a shadowpriest I'd cry with happiness getting something similar... Together with the change to MG for affliction it doesn't seem too bad for you now.
Shadow on the other hand is stuck with 0 spells to cast when moving if you got a UVLS SW:P rolling.
Don't get me wrong, I see your issues. I'm just saying you could have had it much worse.

Yeah, I'm pretty thoroughly shocked that Spriests don't have something similar to this already, but if this proves as successful as I feel it *may* then we could see this being ported to Boomkins/Arcane Mages/Spriests. The only problem I see personally is that they're emulating Scorch with this new design for Fel Flame, but what makes Scorch so valuable is that it can still proc the precursor buff for instant pyros. In a sense, Destruction and Demo would see Ember/Fury procs with the damage from Fel Flame but Affliction gets no mechanical benefit from casting it. It would just be nice to see them think the design through a bit more and have spec related intricacies interwoven.

[Szarala]

Is it bad to dance in the street with this? I'm dancing in the street with this change.

Certainly a step in the right direction.

Are you being sarcastic? You've gotta be. Turning Fel Flame into a horrible green version of Scorch is an even laughably worse idea than the Haunt one.

[Xzan]

BIG update, source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=111#2202

Got a few updates for you guys. Standard disclaimer applies that this is all still in early testing and subject to change.

Fel Flame has gotten a slight rework. It now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can always be cast while moving. Also, it no longer extends the duration of damage over time effects (and, as such, no longer causes them to lose their "snapshotted" stats) and has gotten a small damage buff. The intent here is that you should be able to use this to keep up some damage when you need to move, but you'll want to stick to your standard rotation otherwise.

Looking specifically at Affliction, we're lowering the bonus damage that Malefic Grasp provides and moving that damage over into Haunt and the DoT effects themselves to compensate. We still want Malefic Grasp to be your primary filler for single target DPS, but this will make it a bit less punishing when you can't afford to channel it (especially in PvP). Haunt will once again be interrupted by movement, in favor of the Fel Flame change.

There's been a couple adjustments to the level 90 talents as well. Both Kil'Jaeden's Cunning and Mannoroth's Fury have had their cooldowns and durations lowered to 60 and 10 seconds, respectively. Mannoroth's Fury now only applies to the core AoE damage spells (Seed of Corruption, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Rain of Fire), but increases their damage by 100% while active in addition to the range increase. Note that Rain of Fire is being changed to no longer generate enough Burning Embers to be worth using in a single target rotation (so, Destruction shouldn't feel forced into Mannoroth's Fury).

These should hopefully be hitting the PTR in the next build. Once again, please remember that we're very early in the 5.4 development process. Any or all of this may still change before the patch goes live.

Damn, long overdue. If they buff the dots themselves and not just Haunt, multidotting will be completely out of hand in PvE and PvP Affliction could get useful with some proper pressure going for once as well...

[Anonymous1038853]

More destruction PvP nerfs. Greeeeaaaat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5WyyS_ENY

[Jessicka]

BIG update, source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=111#2202

Got a few updates for you guys. Standard disclaimer applies that this is all still in early testing and subject to change.

Fel Flame has gotten a slight rework. It now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can always be cast while moving. Also, it no longer extends the duration of damage over time effects (and, as such, no longer causes them to lose their "snapshotted" stats) and has gotten a small damage buff. The intent here is that you should be able to use this to keep up some damage when you need to move, but you'll want to stick to your standard rotation otherwise.

Looking specifically at Affliction, we're lowering the bonus damage that Malefic Grasp provides and moving that damage over into Haunt and the DoT effects themselves to compensate. We still want Malefic Grasp to be your primary filler for single target DPS, but this will make it a bit less punishing when you can't afford to channel it (especially in PvP). Haunt will once again be interrupted by movement, in favor of the Fel Flame change.

There's been a couple adjustments to the level 90 talents as well. Both Kil'Jaeden's Cunning and Mannoroth's Fury have had their cooldowns and durations lowered to 60 and 10 seconds, respectively. Mannoroth's Fury now only applies to the core AoE damage spells (Seed of Corruption, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Rain of Fire), but increases their damage by 100% while active in addition to the range increase. Note that Rain of Fire is being changed to no longer generate enough Burning Embers to be worth using in a single target rotation (so, Destruction shouldn't feel forced into Mannoroth's Fury).

These should hopefully be hitting the PTR in the next build. Once again, please remember that we're very early in the 5.4 development process. Any or all of this may still change before the patch goes live.

This isn't the answer. Fel flame is there for when we are school locked, this will lock both on interupt. It also sucks for Demo and Destro.

[Viradiance]

Snicker snicker the Warlock tears for the last week have been fantastic. All the FOTM rerollers changing to Warlocks because they've been ludicrous in PVE and PVP all expansion crying because they're being brought down in line with all the other classes who have no or minimal ability to cast on the move (moonkin, mage, shadow priest).

Hopefully they remove the "always able to cast while moving" on lightning bolt as well and give Melee back the niche of being useful mobile DPS.

[Deleted]

Snicker snicker the Warlock tears for the last week have been fantastic. All the FOTM rerollers changing to Warlocks because they've been ludicrous in PVE and PVP all expansion crying because they're being brought down in line with all the other classes who have no or minimal ability to cast on the move (moonkin, mage, shadow priest).

Hopefully they remove the "always able to cast while moving" on lightning bolt as well and give Melee back the niche of being useful mobile DPS.

A panda monk calling others FOTM rerollers? You sir made my day

[Viradiance]

A panda monk calling others FOTM rerollers? You sir made my day

First time I've ever rerolled my main (rogue for 5 years). Guild needed a tank, genuinely enjoyed monks from beta.

I meant those twats who play a Rogue one patch, Warlock the next, Priest another and Mage the next, and whose voices drown out all sensibility any time an overpowered feature of a class gets brought in line every patch.

[Rayaleith]

First time I've ever rerolled my main (rogue for 5 years). Guild needed a tank, genuinely enjoyed monks from beta.

I meant those twats who play a Rogue one patch, Warlock the next, Priest another and Mage the next, and whose voices drown out all sensibility any time an overpowered feature of a class gets brought in line every patch.

We don't care about your story you made your point, bye now! Thanks.

[WarlockJack]

Snicker snicker the Warlock tears for the last week have been fantastic. All the FOTM rerollers changing to Warlocks because they've been ludicrous in PVE and PVP all expansion crying because they're being brought down in line with all the other classes who have no or minimal ability to cast on the move (moonkin, mage, shadow priest).

Hopefully they remove the "always able to cast while moving" on lightning bolt as well and give Melee back the niche of being useful mobile DPS.

I've played a warlock since beta, so I honestly don't care if we lose the ability to cast and move... I've spent most my time NOT moving. However, for affliction... its a game breaker in pvp because of how we've been built. The fact that we now HAVE to channel to do the appropriate amount of damage means we've now become dysfunctional; especially in LoS issues where we can't chase people.

Other classes aren't affected as badly because they don't have a channeled filler that boosts their main source of damage up in line to where it needs to be.

Truthfully, the cleanest way I can see to fix this is just delete malefic grasp and replace it with a nuke or change it so it doesn't affect our dots. The awkward part of that is then our dots would probably be permanently under or overpowered.

[Viradiance]

I've played a warlock since beta, so I honestly don't care if we lose the ability to cast and move... I've spent most my time NOT moving. However, for affliction... its a game breaker in pvp because of how we've been built. The fact that we now HAVE to channel to do the appropriate amount of damage means we've now become dysfunctional; especially in LoS issues where we can't chase people.

Other classes aren't affected as badly because they don't have a channeled filler that boosts their main source of damage up in line to where it needs to be.

Truthfully, the cleanest way I can see to fix this is just delete malefic grasp and replace it with a nuke or change it so it doesn't affect our dots. The awkward part of that is then our dots would probably be permanently under or overpowered.

Good thing you have two other specs to play, right?

The "only one spec is good for PVP" system has worked fine for Rogues, Hunters, Mages, Warriors and Shaman (and that's just off the top of my head) all expansion.

Imo 6.0 is more the time for a major revamp like you're describing, and I have no idea how KJC went live in the state that it is, it's a pretty silly ability for a talent. Totally invalidates the rest of the tier.

[Lacomus]

I am sorry if this has already been said since I didn't bother to read all the pages but why don't they just make the filler spells be able to be used while casting with KJC? Would make sense to me if it was like that. Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents

[The Penguin]

Snicker snicker the Warlock tears for the last week have been fantastic. All the FOTM rerollers changing to Warlocks because they've been ludicrous in PVE and PVP all expansion crying because they're being brought down in line with all the other classes who have no or minimal ability to cast on the move (moonkin, mage, shadow priest).

Hopefully they remove the "always able to cast while moving" on lightning bolt as well and give Melee back the niche of being useful mobile DPS.

Unless you have something meaningful that adds to the conversation, please refrain from posting this kind of stuff. This sort of talk does nothing to help the situation, but does help significantly in derailing topics and turning them into a flame-war.

I approve this message ~Niberion