[Balance] 5.4 Changes and Thoughts

[Deleted]

They don't crit

That's after a 95 million test, so they can crit but they do not scale with your own crit rating

[Deleted]

I can confirm they do crit, rate is so low that it leads me to believe their crit chance is very low also.
Also i didnt realise at first, but the proc is only from initial casts, so multidotting doesnt actually gain much dps with this 2 set, you just get the 1 hit for each moonfire in lunar or sunfire in solar that you cast. Also i didnt gain any hits from starfall, leading me to believe that it doesnt proc this effect. So really i find this set bonus abit lack luster.

So from my tests, it procs from Sunfire, moonfire, starsurge, wrath, starfire

Nothing from starfall or hurricane / astral storm

Also to add, i think someone said they dont scale with SP? But all my greater hits came with trinket procs and jade serpent, but i think the base hit value doesnt scale with gear.

Here is 200 Bolts from solar and 200 bolts from lunar


My theory is that the chance for them to crit is 0%, however they seem to be affected by int procs from trinkets etc, which also raises their crit, which also explains why they are averaging out at a 1-3% of total hits being crits. I havent tested if they are affected by flasks, pots and food, and also if taking a trinket that procs crit affects their crit chance, although my guess is that these all affect them.

Edit: Can confirm their damage scales from flask, food, pot, havent been able to test if you can scale the crit chance, although it will never really matter anyways. But basically they take no gains from base stats on gear, only from procs and buffs.
This is with flask and food, no pot.

[Cyous]

Are they critting from UVLS being active? Or did the testing include Crits that were not from UVLS?

[Fountaiin]

DId you look at the pvp trinkets? They reduce 10% damage yet I can not have my 15% to reduce damage....

I really do not igve that much care about nt, it will not stop me from dieing really.

HOTW NS is a defensive cooldown itself. How are you going to act like it is useless.

[Deleted]

Are they critting from UVLS being active? Or did the testing include Crits that were not from UVLS?

Good point, just tested it with normal version of UVLS, and no crits from the proc.

[huth]

Edit: Can confirm their damage scales from flask, food, pot, havent been able to test if you can scale the crit chance, although it will never really matter anyways. But basically they take no gains from base stats on gear, only from procs and buffs.
This is with flask and food, no pot.

Wouldn't that indicate that they only scale with int(i.e. SP), but not secondaries? Something that only scales with stat buffs would be exceedingly odd.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't that indicate that they only scale with int(i.e. SP), but not secondaries? Something that only scales with stat buffs would be exceedingly odd.

Thats pretty much what i said, they scale with int / sp procs and buffs. And after testing UVLS, we can say they dont scale with secondaries.

And they dont scale on gear, since the minimum damage remains the same across different gear levels.

[Slippykins]

So I just got back from 38 hours of travelling, updated the OP with the NS and the 4-piece change, if I missed anything else let me know. Going to go crash for a bit so don't expect a prompt update.

[artem123]

HOTW NS is a defensive cooldown itself. How are you going to act like it is useless.

Cause you have to spec HOTW. i would rather have 90% of the defensives other classes compared to HOTW NS. I think a lot of people would. a possible large amt reduction compared to a maybe 20-30% heal.

[Miraclous]

Cause you have to spec HOTW. i would rather have 90% of the defensives other classes compared to HOTW NS. I think a lot of people would. a possible large amt reduction compared to a maybe 20-30% heal.

We still have symbiosis which gives us a choice between cd's and might of ursoc which noone ever mentions but can be usefull on a huge damage spike. I agree that taking away 15% dr and giving us some passive armor in return is a nerf and not consistant with 'we want to give more active mitigation', but we still have lots of ways to survive.

[Cybb]

We still have symbiosis which gives us a choice between cd's and might of ursoc which noone ever mentions but can be usefull on a huge damage spike.

Allow MoU to be used in Moonkin form and I'll be a super happy BoomChicken.

[artem123]

We still have symbiosis which gives us a choice between cd's and might of ursoc which noone ever mentions but can be usefull on a huge damage spike. I agree that taking away 15% dr and giving us some passive armor in return is a nerf and not consistant with 'we want to give more active mitigation', but we still have lots of ways to survive.

Symbiosis requires classes to be useful, if certain classes arent there its pretty much crap. But i agree with might of ursoc, its a pretty great CD, just needs to be able to not make us go bear

[xtramuscle]

Allow MoU to be used in Moonkin form and I'll be a super happy BoomChicken.

Add it to the moonbeast glyph = GG (or even to the stampede glyph that no longer requires bearform)

[Miraclous]

Allow MoU to be used in Moonkin form and I'll be a super happy BoomChicken.

So would I, but Spriest also can't dps with dispersion, and mages with ice block ect.

[Alzu]

So would I, but Spriest also can't dps with dispersion, and mages with ice block ect.

But to be honest, defensive-wise Dispersion and Ice Block are far better than Might of the Ursoc. But I see your point. The one global to shift back isn't that bad anyways.

[urmmom]

Started lvling my ele shaman - So tired of blizzard nerfing a class that clearly has no place in either pve or pvp. I haven't seen boomkin rep'd in MLG or in any major way out dpsing in world firsts. Just a dam shame

[artem123]

So would I, but Spriest also can't dps with dispersion, and mages with ice block ect.

cant compare MoU to disp or ice block.. or any of the real defenses.
Ice block, what 8seconds immunity, clears everything on you?
Disp reduces 90?% dmg taken, Speed increase, get away
Then theirs MoU you get 30% hp and switched into bear form, you have a obvious point that we would get another heal in a sense, or atleast thats what im assuming the point is.
if MoU was a defensive that would prevent as much dmg as iceblock, dispersion, bubble, deterrence, any of those then yeah okay. But it doesnt, the 30% can be gone in 1-2 hits
Edit: to the guy above, a ele sham wont be any better. Boomies have a place in PVE as long as you can play your class, and do enough dps to keep with utility

[Slippykins]

Started lvling my ele shaman - So tired of blizzard nerfing a class that clearly has no place in either pve or pvp. I haven't seen boomkin rep'd in MLG or in any major way out dpsing in world firsts. Just a dam shame

While Boomkins may not be in the strongest arena teams nor are they the absolute top DPS, they're still well represented in high-end guilds and do contribute well to a group. We're much better than we were in Vanilla or even BC - we really were Oomkins back then, and brought almost nothing to the table that a Tree couldn't bring better.

Regardless, I see your point. All classes gets nerfs, and yet all classes feel they are the only ones being treated unfairly. I'm definitely not a Blizzard fanboy, but I can understand the need for certain changes - WoW is too big and too complex to really make one change and think "well, that'll solve that problem!" without a hint of doubt. So they typically make one change, then modify or even scrap that change because it impacted things in a way they didn't intend. Even then, if the change didn't actually fix what they wanted but they feel it's slightly better than before it'll most likely stay in. It's possible they just don't know how to solve the problem yet without impacting other things or causing a snowball effect.

Anyway, I don't think Boomkins will drop off from this patch to the next. Their demand in raid will still be good, and their presence in RBGs will still be strong. Blizzard's shifting away from the philosophy of "everyone can do everything" back to "well these specs have their niches." We're comparatively good with spread-targets, relatively bad with stacked targets and about middle-of-the-pack for single-target. I don't think we're doing too badly.

[Aboubacar]

I am in no way happy with the place balance has been in the past ~3 years I have been playing. The damage loss from moving has not gone down at all from what it was in cata. Moonkin's damage is still extremely niche-like in terms of performance (assuming you are playing in a group of equally skilled individuals). Balance raid utility and survivability has only gone down this tier, as almost every class can do what we do better.

Hurricane is a terrible spell and needs to go. displacer beast is a joke. glad i have it, but its a pain to use. I have 2 glyphs just so I can spend one gcd on a spell rather than 2 and another so the raid actually benefits from my utility spell that is trumped by demonic gateway anyway.

Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal to me if I had to jump through more hoops to aoe a pack of mobs that every other class, but in conjunction with that, it does the lowest damage.... Nothing adds up in favor for this spec. This tier we've become the "lol moonfire starsurge spammers" and lost so much of the dynamic that class had previously.

If balance has a niche in multidot cleave/aoe, then warlocks of all specs shouldn't touch me in every single one of their specs while having better mobility, movement damage, raid utility... shall i continue? Same goes for elemental when they push one button and target one mob and top aoe, while we have to place a hurricane with the risk of the mobs moving out of it, get into solar etc, sham rage more DR and a dispell on same CD, better survivability and movement damage too? I'd love to know what happens in the class developers heads when going from one class to another, nerfing the worst-off classes in the game etc.

Classes are supposed to have a niche, not suck at almost everything or excel at everything. Class and spec balance is just as bad today as it was the last 2 expansions and balance in particular (and most noteably rets) continue to get the short end of the stick. Boomkins are useless in pvp btw. Arena straight-up lacks them and its always better to be feral or resto in rbgs. Free kill as always

[Deleted]

Not to be rude, but to all people talking about how bad moonkins are and ya are being abused with the nerfs to it and how other classes are better, have ya tried for example warlock? Or any other class that might suit you better? I was troubling with moonkin at one point, leveled a mage, a priest, warlock to 60s but I found moonkin so much funnier that I turned back to it. I also get sometimes a feeling that I must play some other class than druid, so I just log on to some class and play it for a while until I get pissed with it and turn back to moonkin and I am happy owl again!
I found the value of moonkin when I was apart from it for a while. I just found it funnier to play.