[Balance] 5.4 Changes and Thoughts

[Fleuria]

Biggest problem with Hurricane and Astral Storm is the fact you go oom after 3 spell casts, needs mana reducing by alot and also something to stop it adversely affecting dps.

[Drayarr]

no mana cost and x10 damage

[Aboubacar]

Cyous' idea is really good also solves the mana thing Fleuria mentioned.

Blizzard doesn't want us to camp eclipses anymore like was done in Cata imo and atm AOE doesn't interact with eclipse energy and it needs to. Balance is kind of "half-baked" atm because it has this really cool mechanic, eclipse, but AoE stagnates the rotation of eclipses and makes it way too hard to pick back up on your single target.

[Fleuria]

Cyous' idea is really good also solves the mana thing Fleuria mentioned.

Blizzard doesn't want us to camp eclipses anymore like was done in Cata imo and atm AOE doesn't interact with eclipse energy and it needs to. Balance is kind of "half-baked" atm because it has this really cool mechanic, eclipse, but AoE stagnates the rotation of eclipses and makes it way too hard to pick back up on your single target.

Its a good idea but hurricane still needs to have a severe damage as well as this change to stop it adversely affecting dps, biggest thing i hate about hurricane in general though is just the fact if adds move your literally just fucked.

[Drayarr]

Make hurricane/astral storm like Rain of Fire, Click to target and it channels itself? or is that too similar to lock and they will QQ that we have the same stuff as them?
allows us to aoe and keep cycling eclipse

[Deleted]

I think a good bandaid fix would be to give Astral Storm/Hurricane ticks a chance to generate Lunar/Solar energy.

[Cellion]

I think a good bandaid fix would be to give Astral Storm/Hurricane ticks a chance to generate Lunar/Solar energy.

But then it could tick you out of eclipse and your AoE would be doing less damage.

[Cyous]

But then it could tick you out of eclipse and your AoE would be doing less damage.

Most AOE lasts 1-8sec. And lets be real here: Planning ahead for AOE is easy. Just watch your timers and act accordingly. If you want to delay Eclipse, you could even drop Mushrooms to give yourself an extra 2sec time. You can start pre-DOTing, if possible, as well (like with H:Sha of Fear - Phase 2).

Make hurricane/astral storm like Rain of Fire, Click to target and it channels itself? or is that too similar to lock and they will QQ that we have the same stuff as them?
allows us to aoe and keep cycling eclipse

That was the AOE+Multi-DOT model I drew up as well. But I'm having issues making the logic behind the spell simply 'not function' when not enough targets are present. I think it would be our best option going into 6.0, though.

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You said you had the 4pc. You probably had 40% effective crit. (trinket/weapon procs).

This puts your effective SS proc rate per tick at 9.21%. So, we could find an average:
(9.21% * ([372 + 393] * 0.5))
9.21% * 382.5 = 35.23 procs.

Unfortunately, this is consistent with your experience.

(Posting this here because on the US forums, there was discussion that SS might be bugged)

I should correct this -- we are expecting 35.23 SS procs PER DOT. Meaning my math was incomplete. We should have actually seen 35.23*2 ( = 70.5 SS procs) for the encounter. SS proc rates are currently halved, meaning it's bugged somewhere. I need the actual WOL report to find any relevant information.

Give me more logs please.

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I dunno i personally dont want hurricane / storm to move my eclipse bar, i just think it should extend NG when it ticks, so if you start aoeing on 5 seconds of NG, then when the channel is finished then you still have 5 seconds of NG left so you dont have the painful single target movement to the next eclipse.

It may just be easier to allow Hurricane/Astral Storm ticks to extend the duration of Nature's Grace by [Tick interval] sec. (If Hurricane ticked every 0.667sec, NG would be extended by 0.667 sec each tick.) Extending NG will cap at the base duration of NG (15sec). This, of course, means no Eclipse generation for these AOE spells.

[Alzu]

Balance movement isn't poor unless you're at a 463 ilvl... It's only worse than ele shamans and demonolgy. Balance movement damage is about where most casters should be.

While I find moonkin movement DPS exactly where it should be (not too good but has its good parts), its not one of the best. All warlocks with KJC will be better automatically and always, like all ele shamans. Mages have better blink (lower CD, costs 1 GCD less) and fire mages have more spells to cast while moving. Shadow priests are at the same level with moonkins though.

What we can do while moving is limited to mushrooms (do next to 0 damage), dots (only when they're not with CDs), SS procs (relies heavily on RNG) and Displacer Beast (costs 2 globals.) Casting dots isn't really good because you will clip them most likely and for optimal DPS, you really need to plan ahead when you're moving and for how long.

Most other casters have it way too easy.

I try to maintain a PvP spreadsheet for myself. I want to get started on the 5.4 version. Besides the changes listed in the first post, I think we are looking at

• Increased Wrath, Starfire, Starfall damage.
• Reduced Shooting Stars procs when multi-dotting.
• Stronger Nature's Vigil when healing (but most Moonkin still prefer HotW)
• Ysera's Gift available (but WoC is probably better)
• Increased baseline resilience.
• Increased battle fatigue
• PvP ilvl cap to climb slowly during the season.
• New RPPM rules for Haste.
• Edit: Increased Stamina in bear form

Is there anything I'm missing?
Thanks.

One free glyph slot (Moonbeast baked in the spec), Innervate is more effective when cast on other players, FF duration halved and Ferals getting nerfed heavily. I'm not sure how big the feral nerfs are for moonkins but I just feel like ferals counter them so it might be a big thing for moonkin pvp.

Well, a quick fix to Balance AOE:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6461?page=2#27

* Adds 5 Eclipse generation per tick of Hurricane and Astral Storm. (Does not benefit from Euphoria)
---- Causes almost 0 damage gain and loss in AOE.
---- Does not contribute positively to single-target DPS (you cannot game AOE for single-target).
---- Interacts with NG so it doesn't kill us to AOE then transition into single-target. (not the same as gaming it)
---- QoL fix which literally does nothing, except improve our QoL with NG.

Sounds like a very nice idea, but only if Astral Storm had the same DPS as Hurricane.

[Aboubacar]

anyone have the numbers on non-NG hurricane vs NG buffed Astral Storm? full channel

[Drayarr]

It may just be easier to allow Hurricane/Astral Storm ticks to extend the duration of Nature's Grace by [Tick interval] sec. (If Hurricane ticked every 0.667sec, NG would be extended by 0.667 sec each tick.) Extending NG will cap at the base duration of NG (15sec). This, of course, means no Eclipse generation for these AOE spells.

The definitely seems like a good direction for hurricane/astral storm, buff its damage a little and allow this so we dont get totally gimped with slow single target nukes after we finish channeling it

[Varna]

I'm just so happy that I'm now encouraged to use Wrath more 'cos that spell was already one of my favourite spells and now they've made it even better!

[earthwormjim]

Well, a quick fix to Balance AOE:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6461?page=2#27

* Adds 5 Eclipse generation per tick of Hurricane and Astral Storm. (Does not benefit from Euphoria)
---- Causes almost 0 damage gain and loss in AOE.
---- Does not contribute positively to single-target DPS (you cannot game AOE for single-target).
---- Interacts with NG so it doesn't kill us to AOE then transition into single-target. (not the same as gaming it)
---- QoL fix which literally does nothing, except improve our QoL with NG.

The eclipse energy generation is not needed, and would make it worse.

All that needs to be done is that it needs to interract with NG in some way. Whether that be extending the buff by X% for every tick, or something else along those lines.

It's NOT the lack of eclipse energy generation that kills us for AOE'ing, it's the loss of NG.


I really just wish they would bring back old mushrooms. They worked a lot better with the way our rotation is set up. No other class is penalized for channeling something as badly as we are. Three GCD prep to have the equivalent of one or two ticks of hurricane is absurd.

[Cyous]

anyone have the numbers on non-NG hurricane vs NG buffed Astral Storm? full channel

Sure.

35,000 SP.
10,296 Haste.
40% Eclipse modifier.
NumTargets: 1

Total Damage: Multiply "DPS" by 10

Hurricane, no-NG (5% active), Eclipse active:
20432 DPS (Tick: 0.77sec)

Astral Storm, NG + 5%, Eclipse active:
17804 DPS (Tick: 0.67sec)

[Grubjuice]

Hey I hate to be that guy, but what is NG in this context? i am just trying to follow the conversation.

[Broodling67]

Nature's Grace

[Zippster]

I know this might be a bit much but how about a change just extending NG's duration? It would help offset the ss nerf to low geared boomkins but it would probably have some adverse effects

[Grubjuice]

Nature's Grace

/hitsforeheadwithheelofhand

duh, thanks!

[Slapsgiving]

At this point, I think we could greatly benefit from extended DoT duration. 18-20 sec MF/SF could in theory help us offset the nerf to proc chance by giving us more bang for each GCD we spend dotting. They just buffed almost every other caster DoT out there, it would just go with the flow.

Not the most exciting of solutions, but unless math proves me wrong, I believe it would be a happy middle -regardless of a much needed buff to Hurricane.

[Grubjuice]

I think a good bandaid fix would be to give Astral Storm/Hurricane ticks a chance to generate Lunar/Solar energy.

it would be better if they only granted energy outside of eclipse but not during eclipse.