Burden of Guilt Removed - 5.4 discussion.

[Tangra]

I hope they make SoJ work on judgement. I think its ok for us to have a better snare than warriors or other typical melee because you know we dont have a gap closer.

Without the glyph new fear and repentance will be too similar. If they introduce an instant cast glyph again then fear will be better than repentance for all specs. I dont see either of these happening. Talents shouldnt be too similar or one shouldnt be obviously superior to another.

Here is my wishful thinking on what might happen if we are lucky.

New Turn Evil Glyph - who knows, it might not even be a Turn Evil glyph any more at all.

New Ret Passive:

Angelic Tongues - Teaches the Paladin the sacred language of the realm of light, allowing auto-attacks and movement to occur while casting.

This would allow us to use Repent, Turn Everybody, and Flash of Light while moving, and without resetting the swing timer. We have no other spells with cast times other than Redemption.

I would happily take a small Flash of Light nerf of lets say 10-15% if it is needed for balance purposes. Overall, I just really hope that Blizzard does not have the audacity to put 2 talents in the same tier that are only good for Holy, Repent in its current state is already a slap in the face, as it takes a classic Ret ability and makes it almost completely a Holy spell, it would be outrageous if they remove Burden of Guilt and replace it with another talent option for just healers.

Edit: one option for Glyph of Turn Evil I can think of is this actually:

Glyph of Turn Evil - Your Turn Evil spell is now instant cast, but your casting speed is reduced by 10% for 8 seconds after casting Turn Evil.

Edit 2: Come to think of it, do we even have confirmation that Turn Evil will have a cast time at all in 5.4? It wasn't really specified in the notes. Another thing to keep in mind is that Blinding Light shares diminishing returns with Fear rather than disorient effects, so for holy Repent would still allow longer cc chains, as Turn Evil is of course on the fear dr. In addition, Repent keeps people still for Holy to walk up to and blind, if someone is running around in fear chaining Blinding Light will be quite difficult.

[Reghame]

yes, it does have a cast time. as for the glyph, it should be ret only and the talent go back to BoG but put the current talent as the glyph, they could also replace BoG with something else but they do not need to.as it is now, its a slight buff to holy paladins once more because fear is a displacement ability AND does not break on 1 tick of damage.

[Lumineus]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Blinding Light shares diminishing returns with Fear rather than disorient effects

Since when is Turn in the same DR category as Fear? Isn't that why they made Demo Warlocks immune to it, because they could be CCed literally forever?

[Daswolfen]

Seal of Truth is better. Seal of Justice's effect was magic and could be dispelled more easily; coupled with the fact that the overall DPS was lower.

But what about the Seal of The American Way?

Sorry. The new Superman opens today, otherwise I wouldn't have gone there...

[Lumineus]

When judged, Seal of the American Way /dethrones the target's Guild Master and grants Hand of Freedom to all eligible targets within 10000 yards. So broken.

[Bsod]

i really cant believe it...
we get a fear! and it can be instant with glyphe
thats soooo good and we only loose a slow talent that nobody uses in high raiting anyway.
we can interrupt uninterruptable casts, cc healer for bursting the dps etc.

[Tangra]

i really cant believe it...
we get a fear! and it can be instant with glyphe
thats soooo good and we only loose a slow talent that nobody uses in high raiting anyway.
we can interrupt uninterruptable casts, cc healer for bursting the dps etc.

The Glyph is being changed, we have no idea if it will be instant or not. Though we can certainly hope that Blizzard will not just make a tier with two talents basically just for Holy, due to having to be cast. It really is just way too early to tell.

[Vathius]

Yup. Ima enter random BGs on patchday and fear all the Warlocks and Spriests!

^

ohhhhh I will be fear spamming every lock in sight.

[Naposim1337]

i will not be able to kite anymore?! F*CK YOU BLIZZARD. And no, i dont care about sodding pvp.

[Lumineus]

They replaced Glyph of Turn Evil with one that replicates the old Burden of Guilt talent. Whether that's worth a major glyph slot is up to you, but Paladins will still be kiting-capable.

[Cronosmash]

Remember the glyph Snare lasts for 2 secs and the Talent on Live lasts for 12 secs.

[Icecold3000]

But dude .... everybody nows that Ret Paladins survived centuries without a slow. (PVP)
And we dont need it now!

WHY?
Blizz need to replicates the old Judgement of Justice effect (Yes.. Red Judgement) , This prevents a player from going above their normal run speed (This is not considered a movement impairing effect.) this gentlemen was our Pasive SLOW in the past . and we need it back in this time of darkness...........

This judgement was very useful to stop runners ,
- a Druid who was affected by the Judgement will not go any faster than the normal run speed if they shift into Travel Form.
- a Rogue who uses Sprint will receive no speed boost.
- and any player riding a mount was receiving speed bonus from doing so.

Turn Evil is like a second Repeteance to me, just in case that you dont play Warlock/Priest comp.

[Deleted]

But dude .... everybody nows that Ret Paladins survived centuries without a slow. (PVP)
And we dont need it now!

WHY?
Blizz need to replicates the old Judgement of Justice effect (Yes.. Red Judgement) , This prevents a player from going above their normal run speed (This is not considered a movement impairing effect.) this gentlemen was our Pasive SLOW in the past . and we need it back in this time of darkness...........

This judgement was very useful to stop runners ,
- a Druid who was affected by the Judgement will not go any faster than the normal run speed if they shift into Travel Form.
- a Rogue who uses Sprint will receive no speed boost.
- and any player riding a mount was receiving speed bonus from doing so.

Turn Evil is like a second Repeteance to me, just in case that you dont play Warlock/Priest comp.

Our current slow does everything you just named, AND also slows people that are already moving at normal movement speed by 50%. We don't need that crappy Judgement back, tbh.

I'm really happy they've given us BoG back. The 2 second duration seems too short, but I guess I can't complain now.

[Noradin]

I still dislike getting two talents in the same row that basically do the same thing in most cases and having to spend another glyph on the old talent.
They could at least give SoJ to all paladins again.

[ipoststuff]

I still dislike getting two talents in the same row that basically do the same thing in most cases and having to spend another glyph on the old talent.

Biggest fail of the new talent system. There are no alternatives.

They could at least give SoJ to all paladins again.

Holy doesnt melee and prot has a slow anyway.

[Aleksej89]

IMO the new glyph of burden of gilt should have been made baseline - nerf it's power or it's duration, but i don't think it is worth a major glyph slot.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Our current slow does everything you just named, AND also slows people that are already moving at normal movement speed by 50%. We don't need that crappy Judgement back, tbh.

I'm really happy they've given us BoG back. The 2 second duration seems too short, but I guess I can't complain now.

I think you failed pretty hard when you said that Seal of justice is the same and equal to Judgement of justice.

[Nairobi]

IMO the new glyph of burden of gilt should have been made baseline - nerf it's power or it's duration, but i don't think it is worth a major glyph slot.

It is most definitely worth a glyph slot for a lot of situations. An undispellable 40yd range 50% snare is pretty amazing, even if only 2sec duration on ~4sec CD. Any more nerf to its duration and it'd be so short as to not even matter. Making it baseline would make Ret a bit too "complete" for a melee that has traditionally been lacking at least 25% of the tools we need. I could see it being baked into SoJ (which we all suggested a lot) so there was an opportunity cost to using the seal over Truth (and it makes more sense as a "PVP seal" that way, anyway....but whatever), but we got this instead. For now, anyway.

The bigger problem is now that the glyph is almost mandatory for a number of comps/situations. Adding that in with TV, we only have 1 "floater", which we can use on WOG, FoL, or DivProt.