How to fix LFR / Flexraid and, ultimately, WoW.

[Angarin]

Quit trying to fix something that isn't broken.

[Normie]

Quit trying to fix something that isn't broken.

How can you fix Flex when no one has even seen it yet? Like, what needs fixing? Does someone know?

[Deleted]

No a set raid leader will 90% of the time end up being a dictator.
And imo to be succesful a real raidleader need some basic tools like ventrilo and raiders in ventrilo.

People don't want to just "see the content." They want to RAID! And real raiding requires a real Raid Leader.

LFR is far from being real raiding.

[glowpipe]

why the hell do we need 1-5 threads a day, about fixing, something that isnt really broken. The current system work better than ANY frikking suggestion that come the last frikking years.

The next time i see a thread named "How to fix xxx" im gonna punch something in the bacon!!

[Pandawatch]

There's an entire thread on the main page about how people are leaving due to LFR. It does need fixing.

[Deleted]

Look at Blizzards latest investor call. They know that casual player interaction with the game is down, less new players are sticking with the game - that's clear to them from their data.

So while we have all this new endgame content, all designed for non-raiders, we see sub numbers drop because of casuals don't play this game for long. Casuals, who are the reason the raiding experience, which was once the prime endgame content in wow, was devalued completely.

And why would they stick around? New players come to WoW because of the gear progression and raiding. When they are luckey, they get full tier set in 1 (!!!) full run of lfr AND they get to see all bosses in 1 (!!!) full run of lfr! Why would they stick around?

It takes more time to level your pets to 25 and get the achievements.
It takes more time to farm mounts.
It takes more time to farm old gear for transmog.
It takes more time to get achievements.
It takes more time to climb up in Brawlers Guild ranks.

All of the above take more time then getting your epics and seeing the current endboss of raid content!

That is what's wrong and Blizzard knows this. They just opend this pandoras box in WotLK and took it to the extreme with lfr. Now they try to repair some damage in the community with /flex raiding, because besides completely devalueing their once prime endgame content, it also destroyed a lot of player interaction, the last there was necessary in this game (because lfd for 5mans and pvp already existed).

LFR needs to go and it will. It hinders the forming of the social aspect of the game, that's why people play an mmo in the first place. It will be made less and less attractive and then changed or patched out. LFR was wrong, it doesn't need fixing, it needs to go.

[Mormolyce]

Sounds like an awful solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[Vargas]

Best way to fix WoW is to go to the homes of everyone complaining about LFR/Flex/LFD/insert feature and just... break their hands. Now they can't log into WoW nor post their whinings. They get to be happy and move on with their lives by not playing a game that apparently upsets them.

Infracted; Don't troll (Sonnillon).

Seriously; guys like the OP would create more problems then they'd solve. Quit thinking you have any right to tell people how they "should" play the game and mind your own goddamn business.

[americandavey]

LFR needs to go and it will. It hinders the forming of the social aspect of the game, that's why people play an mmo in the first place. It will be made less and less attractive and then changed or patched out. LFR was wrong, it doesn't need fixing, it needs to go.

You can keep on wishing, but its not going anywhere. How much people complain about it, sure keep on using it. The number of people doing LFR do not lie. Fact is they are not going back to 3%(or less) of the population completing or seeing a Raid Tier. Fact is LFR justifies the Time/Money spent on Raid content, so without LFR we would not be seeing 14 Bosses for the next Raid Tier in 5.4.

[Deleted]

It's not up for debate anymore. LFR destroyed the social aspect of the game, that's why lots of new players don't stick to the game.

All you who have no clue how exclusive content works in a online gaming environment and whant to break my hands (srsly wow, you truely make a good case of an antisocial behaviour we got with lfr) will lose this.

[MoanaLisa]

Simpler I think to get Blizzard to insert more direction messages in the raid a la DBM and less possibilities for abuse.

"Lei Shen is about to do this. Don't be in front of him."

Stuff like that.

Not only that but people who are interested would be more likely to learn what to do more quickly. Think of it like a DBM-style expansion of the Dungeon Journal. Just for LFR though.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 01:34 AM ----------

It's not up for debate anymore. LFR destroyed the social aspect of the game, that's why lots of new players don't stick to the game.

People said that about paid transfers back in 2007. They've been saying that about LFD for years. Now they say it about LFR. A year or so from now it will be something else. It's the way of things.

EDIT: Anyone who believes that LFR is going away is engaging in extremely wishful thinking.

[Otimus]

It's not up for debate anymore. LFR destroyed the social aspect of the game, that's why lots of new players don't stick to the game.

All you who have no clue how exclusive content works in a online gaming environment and whant to break my hands (srsly wow, you truely make a good case of an antisocial behaviour we got with lfr) will lose this.

Lots of new players don't even get to the god damned end cap. A huge amount of WoW subscribers (MILLIONS) don't even own MoP. You're just making up hyperbole.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 10:07 AM ----------

Look at Blizzards latest investor call. They know that casual player interaction with the game is down, less new players are sticking with the game - that's clear to them from their data.

So while we have all this new endgame content, all designed for non-raiders, we see sub numbers drop because of casuals don't play this game for long. Casuals, who are the reason the raiding experience, which was once the prime endgame content in wow, was devalued completely.

And why would they stick around? New players come to WoW because of the gear progression and raiding. When they are luckey, they get full tier set in 1 (!!!) full run of lfr AND they get to see all bosses in 1 (!!!) full run of lfr! Why would they stick around?

It takes more time to level your pets to 25 and get the achievements.
It takes more time to farm mounts.
It takes more time to farm old gear for transmog.
It takes more time to get achievements.
It takes more time to climb up in Brawlers Guild ranks.

All of the above take more time then getting your epics and seeing the current endboss of raid content!

That is what's wrong and Blizzard knows this. They just opend this pandoras box in WotLK and took it to the extreme with lfr. Now they try to repair some damage in the community with /flex raiding, because besides completely devalueing their once prime endgame content, it also destroyed a lot of player interaction, the last there was necessary in this game (because lfd for 5mans and pvp already existed).

LFR needs to go and it will. It hinders the forming of the social aspect of the game, that's why people play an mmo in the first place. It will be made less and less attractive and then changed or patched out. LFR was wrong, it doesn't need fixing, it needs to go.

If LFR wasn't there, why exactly would players stick around either? :x I think one way or the other, raiding content doesn't really matter. it's not like in the days before LFR, many ever did raiding content. Lots of people didn't even get to the level cap.

[Deleted]

Obviously if players get stuck in the leveling process this topic is not about them? Raiding content matters a lot and by making it more exclusive then now it gives players a goal, something to thrive for. It's basic psychology or just simple understanding of how the human mind works.

Why don't we give all kids at school the best grades, no matter how much they learn? Blizzard created such a situation which shouldn't exist in video games and also not in the real world.

[BloodGutter]

LFR is meant to be as pug friendly and minimal organization as possible. The only time assigned raid leaders is a problem is when they dont utilize things like player markers, beacon markers, ready checks, etc. properly and even then, those are not absolutely necessary if everyone knows what they're doing.

Any semblance of organization and order, well, you currently have normal modes for that and Flex for next patch as the starting line.

[adorich]

LFR's "Problem" is that it kills the desire of the casual player to reach Normal/Heroic levels of raiding.

Some players who use LFG will never raid normals for a variety of reasons such as time constraints, scheduling or the desire to play a specific spec/class. Players are described as "casual," because they have no desire to raid. There is no desire to "kill." LFG isn't robbing normal raiding guilds of players.

LFR doesn't need to be fixed, it just needs to be removed OR launched a tier after the content was available on normal. The casuals will still see all of the content, the only difference is their sub/unsub cycle is pushed backwards a few months as they have to wait longer for content to available in an easier format. The players who are on the fence on whether to be full on LFR mode or want to try normals will recognize that the content is already available to them and all they need to do is go out and see it, just like was done in Classic and BC, where no such easy modes existed.

Delaying LFG would in no way fix the actual issues of LFG i.e. afking, bad player attitudes/behavior. You'd be ostracizing a group of Wow players simply because they've chosen to play Wow differently than you. Additionally, if there are potential raiders in LFG, don't you think they'd jump into a raiding guild to avoid the issues of LFG and get better gear? You don't need a delay on LFG content for that to happen.

[ripponesan]

Assuming shit out of thin air and basing a concept on that?

rareley seen worse. really.

[adorich]

See (2)

Implement a ranking system where people can upvote good raid leaders and downvote the bad ones.

If no one is in charge, it's chaos. As LFR has proven.

What stops the friends and guildees of 'bad raid leader' from up voting? How do I down vote 'bad raid leader' after I've been kicked from the raid simply because he thinks it's funny to kick people? That's problem with ranking systems: they are exploited by the people you're trying to "fix." Many people hate being in charge. You could see long que situations for groups waiting for leaders.

[Otimus]

Obviously if players get stuck in the leveling process this topic is not about them? Raiding content matters a lot and by making it more exclusive then now it gives players a goal, something to thrive for. It's basic psychology or just simple understanding of how the human mind works.

Why don't we give all kids at school the best grades, no matter how much they learn? Blizzard created such a situation which shouldn't exist in video games and also not in the real world.

If people were really "Striving for it", then why in the nine hells has raiding content typically been something very few participated in? What you're saying doesn't really make sense in reality.

[Belloc]

OP: Before making a suggestion thread, you should consider the negative aspects of the suggestion you are providing. If those negative aspects are not balanced by the positive aspects (and, in this case, they aren't), you should not make the thread.

Giving anyone any additional leadership power in an LFR is a terrible idea. There are already enough groups that abuse the votekick system... and you want to give all that power to one person? No, uh uh, that's never going to happen in LFR. Furthermore, allowing them to distribute loot? What!?

Sorry, dude, but LFR is pretty much perfect for what it is. Loot is 100% fair, bad players are subject to votekicks, and those that know what they're doing can volunteer to lead the raid. There's absolutely no need to change it.

Seriously, actually think about what could go wrong with your idea before you make another thread... you'd be doing all of us a huge favor that way.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 03:45 PM ----------

Simpler I think to get Blizzard to insert more direction messages in the raid a la DBM and less possibilities for abuse.

"Lei Shen is about to do this. Don't be in front of him."

Stuff like that.

Not only that but people who are interested would be more likely to learn what to do more quickly. Think of it like a DBM-style expansion of the Dungeon Journal. Just for LFR though.

Now THIS is a well-thought out idea.

[pld]

Delaying LFG would in no way fix the actual issues of LFG i.e. afking, bad player attitudes/behavior. You'd be ostracizing a group of Wow players simply because they've chosen to play Wow differently than you. Additionally, if there are potential raiders in LFG, don't you think they'd jump into a raiding guild to avoid the issues of LFG and get better gear? You don't need a delay on LFG content for that to happen.

I think it was Preach who mentioned that a delayed LFR system would help the state of the game.

I would have to agree with Preach. It would help to add in a sense of "mystery" to PvE raiding that is pretty much non-existent now. I've raided since Vanilla and I enjoyed the sense of progress I got as my raid team moved onto new content. I think that same air of mystery encouraged people to look into raiding (it's partially what encouraged me to) and it'll be a good way to hook in newer players to "normal" raid. LFR will serve primarily as a way for everyone to experience the content and not as the "loot piñata" that it's frequently referred to as now.

Delayed LFR may not fix the issues of poor raiding, but hopefully it'll spark a bigger interest in raiding. Flex raiding and easier normal raids will be tasked to do the rest and become a good tool to teach people how to raid.