The future of Hunter PvE

[Deleted]

what you call outdated mechanics is pretty mutch what defines a hunter. ( traps. aspects and hunter mark) they alrdy made it pretty brainless for the forum whiners. Like insta hunter mark and the trap aura.
Regarding multi doting... WE ARENT A DOT CLASS, that should be a decent answer. Altho I agree hunters need some tweaking, I'm not expecting them to completly change the class.

If you dislike all of that aspects, maybe you are playing the wrong class

[melodramocracy]

Since comprehension is not your forte I will make it more clear. Losing silencing shot will not make or break hunters, but it is a utility that is quite useful. I was comparing it with deterrence and disengage. Are you saying you would have no problems losing both of those abilities?

I'd say that BM's effectively losing intimidation was a bigger punch in the gut than the removal of silencing shot.

CONS:
Hunter has MANY out dated mechanics (traps, hunters mark etc)
Pet pathing is horrendous
Our controlled multi dotting is HORRIBLE and not realistic due to focus
To many useless buttons

Traps are part of what makes hunters unique. If anything, they should be expanded on , and different specs should get different traps. HM is rather pointless at this point in PvE, I agree.

Pet pathing is no better or worse than other classes have to contend with.

Multi-dotting? Roll SV.

Lastly, I don't see anything that doesn't have occasional use somewhere.

As for the complaints about this class... yeah, things aren't perfect, but what other ranged class offers this combination of overall damage, utility, and mobility? Hunters might not be the absolute tops on meters, but we have absolutely ZERO penalty for movement or positioning. Overall I don't think this class has ever been stronger.

[zenyatta]

what you call outdated mechanics is pretty mutch what defines a hunter. ( traps. aspects and hunter mark) they alrdy made it pretty brainless for the forum whiners. Like insta hunter mark and the trap aura.
Regarding multi doting... WE ARENT A DOT CLASS, that should be a decent answer. Altho I agree hunters need some tweaking, I'm not expecting them to completly change the class.

If you dislike all of that aspects, maybe you are playing the wrong class

I like those things, but the Aspects are a set it and forget it deal. We have 2 - "hit hard" or "run fast and then get hindered when you're attacked, because moving your legs faster is punishable but travel form/shaman puppy is ok". Aspects are very boring and could just be baked in, we'd never miss them. They even persist through death. I can go weeks and never touch my aspect buttons. Something similar to mage armours but less "use this one or fail". I've seen some cool ideas for aspects.

I don't use my traps all that often, maybe Explosive when AoEing or the slow trap (see, I can't even remember what it's called) if I'm kiting a challenge tame, but Concussive Shot usually is enough to take care of that. Likely I'm not in content where they'd be used more (Horridon adds sound like the group would benefit from the slow trap, but at least in LFR they usually run past it and it never triggers, so we may need to be looking at making them more sensitive). I will agree that both frost-based traps are probably invaluable in PvP. Trap Launcher is ok but I find t rather clunky. Maybe something similar to the old Freezing Arrow where it'll launch to your target, or at your feet if you've turned it off.

I'm not sure how hunter's mark could be reworked, maybe different types of marks based on the shot? Still baked into Arcane Shot for single target but it increases your highest secondary by X% as opposed to AP (not the highest stat that the applicant has, the highest stat that you personally have regardless of who applied it), one for AoE which would do something different (maybe toss AP into this one?), one to passively heal you (not sure what that'd be attached to though), stuff like that. Could be fun. Or, you could set it up like a priest's chakra, HM with a drop down list of which HM you want to use and remove its auto-apply (one for stats, one for AP, one for self heals, maybe even one that has a chance to root when Serp Sting ticks let's get creative here), which likely would make it more engaging than the above suggestion of baking it in. You'd have to be careful it doesn't read like aspects, though.

[jax]

Pet pathing is no better or worse than other classes have to contend with.

Except that other classes have ranged pets and can completely ignore pathing issues?

Multi-dotting? Roll SV.

SV multi dotting isnt even half way compareable to multi dot classes, come on seriously?

Hunters might not be the absolute tops on meters,

They are middle of the pack when played by the average raider... once you actually display a bit of skill and are surrounded by skill we dive to the bottom third of the 11 dps specs in 11/13 fights... thats no where near top on meters... its much closer to bottom.

but we have absolutely ZERO penalty for movement or positioning.

Which means absolutely nothing if the specs that cant move and dps still out dps us and by a ton as is the case now...

Overall I don't think this class has ever been stronger

Wow...

[Kurgosh]

I don't think I've ever been in a raid group where Hunters were needed for an interrupt. If for whatever reason you're running some stupid setup where you need the Hunter to interrupt then maybe you should consider a change in your raid group.

Try 10s. Or challenge modes. You'll need your interrupt. Just because you can afford to get lazy in 25s doesn't mean we don't need the tools in other contexts.

[melodramocracy]

SV multi dotting isnt even half way compareable to multi dot classes, come on seriously?

Would you rather have to apply SS individually? SV hunters have it easier than any other class to apply / maintain dots. If the argument is that we don't have enough dots, or that traps aren't effective, well, that's a different discussion.

Wow...

Ok, when has this class actually been better off? When BM was an absolute joke for PvE outside of leveling? When arpen meant that MM was the 1 and only viable high end spec? When we had movement limitations, or distance issues, or mana?

I'm all ears.

[Deleted]

I loled irl...

So raids want a subpar dps because we can jump up and down all fight while doing bottom 3rd dps on 11/13 fights?

/boggle



Just stop, hes being purposely obtuse for some reason and he isnt worth the time.

A skilled hunter isn't subpar, we are right behind the big casters but still in front of the lesser ones (shamans) and all the melee.

I have a feeling you call them subpar because you either have subpar hunters in your raid or you are subpar yourself.

-

Hunters are getting a revamp in 6.0 though, aspects most likely to be removed (hawk being passive).

Aspect of the pack and cheetah might both become on use like similar classes currently.

[vyral]

Here's what really bothers me about playing a hunter. I play in a mid progression guild. I constanly rank top 200 in WoL but when i try to move up the ladder proggression-wise noone is looking for a hunter. It doesnt matter how well you play there are barely any good guilds that would rather fit another mage or warlock in their ranks that to bring a sub-par dpser.

[Deleted]

Would you rather have to apply SS individually? SV hunters have it easier than any other class to apply / maintain dots. If the argument is that we don't have enough dots, or that traps aren't effective, well, that's a different discussion.

What you're thinking about is SV AoE, multi dotting is exactly that, applying SS individually.

[cashzilla]

As for the complaints about this class... yeah, things aren't perfect, but what other ranged class offers this combination of overall damage, utility, and mobility? Hunters might not be the absolute tops on meters, but we have absolutely ZERO penalty for movement or positioning. Overall I don't think this class has ever been stronger.

you mean our almost non existent utility, overall damage that is bottom of the charts, and mobility that doesn't provide any benefit when we're still being out dps'd by classes that are forced to stop casting while moving?

we're nowhere near the absolute top, the lower top, or even the top half of the mediocre dps'ers

how is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you finish your post with "i dont think this class has ever been stronger"

[Damien36]

I don't recall a time when all 3 spec were as close to one another in theoretical dps as they just were. Now that is a great thing in that Blizz was able to get it that close. The bad thing is that hunters played with high skill vs. other classes don't compare. Hunters are a true dps class, no matter what spec we play. We don't have to be #1, but we should be every now and then. At the highest skill levels we aren't even close. I agree that the SS loss won't sink us, but it's just another Blizz response to heavy QQ on the pvp side. We used to pretty much be a joke in pvp, why are we not allowed to be OP for more than a week or two in anything? Just curious.

[Kaeth]

We used to pretty much be a joke in pvp, why are we not allowed to be OP for more than a week or two in anything? Just curious.

Because "hunter" does not start with an "M," end with an "E," or have an "AG" in the middle. Otherwise we wouldn't have had to talent into Silencing Shot to begin with, let alone have it unceremoniously taken away from 2 out of 3 specs, and we'd still have more CC than a 5.0 BM hunter.

[Bisso]

about silencing shot... why don't they simply put it all baseline to all spec, and have it on a shorter cooldown on MM? It both makes MM more attractive for raiding and PVP PLUS doesn't remove one of the most useful ability for questing/soloing/dungeon in hunter's arsenal.

note: I dont PVP so I can't tell if people complained about silencing shot being to OP, but isn't PVP about interupts, CC, stuns, etc? Doesnt all the class have similar tricks?

[Perrito]

Would you rather have to apply SS individually? SV hunters have it easier than any other class to apply / maintain dots. If the argument is that we don't have enough dots, or that traps aren't effective, well, that's a different discussion.

mmm, i think dks have it far easier than us to spread dots and maintain them, not to mention that their dot spreads dosnt recaculate dot str allowing dk have way higher numbers on dots than any other dot class out there.

positional requirement for a perfect multishot spread when mobs are close togheter but still a few not in the main pack is way harder to get used than just pushing blood boil or pestilence.

all 3 hunters specs are capable of multidot, SV dots are no way stronger than BM dots unless you are running some crazy mastery prior as SV (dumbest thing ever either way) the only powerfull dot we have is AMoC and all 3 specs can get it and you cant doublé dot if readiness isnt up.

Ok, when has this class actually been better off? When BM was an absolute joke for PvE outside of leveling? When arpen meant that MM was the 1 and only viable high end spec? When we had movement limitations, or distance issues, or mana?

I'm all ears.

yeah you nail it, MM arp was the best stage of hunters, right there, a rotation that made sense and still could allow good hunters overperform bad hunters.

BM is better than any other spec right now damage wise, mechanic wise is the worse. so yes our 3 spec are close now, that dosnt mean hunters in any way are in a good standing right now, unless you meant being one of the lowest range clases out there that have no real niche in any raid setting. cause even elemental LOL @ hunters in at least couple of fights.

if you are happy with hunters right now you have no clue. Blink strikes was the perfect solution to BM problems too bad pvp ruined for pve.

BM is good at dealing damage in both scenarios right now in pvp and pve but isnt the best hunter spec, SV is a far better spec it just lack the CDs BM have. you give BW kinda CD to SV and trust me you wont see a hunter playing BM unless is a really casual player that play for pets looks or just to be "That Guy".

i hate BM with passion, still spec into it and do well with it, is by far the worse spec we have and being tied to your retarded pet is the worse idea ever. even in TBC bm was much better than now, you know back them when even a BM hunter would deal about 15% of his total damage with his pet and not 50%+.

[Noctifer616]

all 3 hunters specs are capable of multidot, SV dots are no way stronger than BM dots unless you are running some crazy mastery prior as SV (dumbest thing ever either way) the only powerfull dot we have is AMoC and all 3 specs can get it and you cant doublé dot if readiness isnt up.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=82834/i...-serpent-sting

Improved Serpent Sting - Increases the damage of your Serpent Sting by 50%, and causes it to also deal instant damage equal to 15% of its total periodic effect.

Dunno about you, but 50% + mastery (even when you don't go into it) is a lot more damage on Serpent Sting.

[scriix]

I am new here and not sure if I am reading this right where we are not pulling numbers....So I will say this...I personally hold 160 - 180k in a raid and use my interrupts often, there's another hnter n my guild that holds 20k more than I and he also interrupts often...no shaman in our guild or too many I've seen so far can hold a full fight at those numbers...So I wanna say we are completetly useful and screwing with us every ppatch is quite aggravating

ever seen an equally geared enhancement shaman since the last patch? their burst is absolutely absurd at the start of a fight now and they can keep it up most of the fight, and if they get to use their 5 min cds again they will more than keep up with you

---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 07:27 PM ----------

A skilled hunter isn't subpar, we are right behind the big casters but still in front of the lesser ones (shamans) and all the melee.

I have a feeling you call them subpar because you either have subpar hunters in your raid or you are subpar yourself.

-

Hunters are getting a revamp in 6.0 though, aspects most likely to be removed (hawk being passive).

Aspect of the pack and cheetah might both become on use like similar classes currently.

Im fairly certain im better than the average hunter, i raid in a top 20 US 25 man guild and i cant touch our casters or our enhance shaman on most fights by a LOONG shot, and part of the reason is both hunters have been sat for all but 3 progression fights all tier and we are about 5-8 ilvls behind the top casters, but even that small ilvl difference i dont think makes as much of a difference as ive seen on most fights.

[Megazorrd]

Ohhhhhh scriix lol

[jax]

Would you rather have to apply SS individually?

That is what multi dotting is...

A skilled hunter isn't subpar, we are right behind the big casters but still in front of the lesser ones (shamans) and all the melee.

A skilled hunter in LFR isnt subpar your correct, when played with equally skilled players they are doing very poorly. Please stop posting things you have no idea about. LOL equal to melee? Rogues say hello, as do unholy dks, rets on several fights, enhance shaman (POW)

I am not trying to be rude but can you please quit posting out right falsehoods? Go check some numbers, look at some logs from the best hunters in the world and see where they are ranking in their guilds. The information is out there for you to see what we are talking about.

I have a feeling you call them subpar because you either have subpar hunters in your raid or you are subpar yourself.

Im calling them subpar because when I ranked 118 in the world for BM hunters I was 11th in my raid...
I could continue and expound on this point but I think you should get the point by now.

Hunters are getting a revamp in 6.0 though, aspects most likely to be removed (hawk being passive).

This means what for right now? Or last patch or the patch before?

Aspect of the pack and cheetah might both become on use like similar classes currently.

What does this have to do with our subpar dps?

Ok, when has this class actually been better off?

TBC when BM was awesome? WoTLK when MM was awesome? Cata when SV/MM was awesome each in its own patch.

When we had movement limitations

,

What movement limitations where those?
You mean you had to stutter step to keep you full rotaion? Skilled hunters never had a problem with that... download quartz or any other swing timer and you had full dps on the move.

or distance issues,

You mean min range? Yet again, skilled hunters had no issue with this.

or mana?

I personally loved mana as long as we had a ret pally (wtb volley as our aoe!) in the raid.

I think its pretty clear who is sub par. If you are even close to the top spot you are playing in a very average guild and by that point I understand why you would think we are not sub par and I forgive you. =)

Im fairly certain im better than the average hunter, i raid in a top 20 US 25 man guild and i cant touch our casters or our enhance shaman on most fights by a LOONG shot,

Now now Scriix, please dont clutter up his arguements with facts...

[Megazorrd]

I'm often at or near the top in my guild and we ranked us 14th this tier. We also have some of the fattest kill times in the us/world. But since I do well they must all be awful

[jax]

A skilled hunter isn't subpar, we are right behind the big casters but still in front of the lesser ones (shamans) and all the melee.

I have a feeling you call them subpar because you either have subpar hunters in your raid or you are subpar yourself.

@Hikashuri

Here is a WoL from your guild with you in it from last week:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/78ic6pmjvpzntit9/

You:
Jinrohk: 13th
Horridon: 7th, pet 100% uptime on Horridon is the only reason you were in top 10
Counsil: 18th
Tortos: 18th
Magaera: 14th
Jinkun: 11th
Durmu: you sat
Primordius: 18th
Dark Aniums: you sat
20 Leishen attempts your average spot was 18. The 3 longest attempts you were 18,18,16

I am no expert but those numbers sure look well below sub par to me...

I'm often at or near the top in my guild and we ranked us 14th this tier.

I would love to see some logs where your at the top, and what does near mean? I mean 12th is near the top in a 25 man cause its closer to the top than the bottom. I am not disputing your word sir but the numbers I have seen show a very different story.