Why Not Normalize PvP?

[Deleted]

Because GW2 is doing oh so well rofl.

that was the only part of gw2 that wast majority actually like. the rest is shit,yeah

[Itisamuh]

Simply put, the reason this doesn't happen is that Blizzard is still under the (wrong) impression that people care more about rewards than fun and competition. That may be true with raiders, I'm not sure, but it certainly doesn't apply to this part of the game.

[Tiago]

I hate using this term, but there are special snowflakes in both pve and pvp.

[traen]

I don't mind removing all the gear from the game and giving players the same average stats based on their level.
I don't like when casual players achieve the same as I achieved when it was almost impossible to achieve just because now they can overgear the content.

But it's rpg. The whole point of rpg is to improve your character. That's why all the jewelcrafting, enchanting, alchemy, transmogrification and other such things exist in the game.

Without gear pvp will die. No one will play arena but few dedicated players. Every bloody week thousands of people go to arena to get their weekly badges cap. If you remove pvp gear from the game no one will bother.
2 weeks before the closing of arena season people will fight for titles, and that's it. And there will be significantly less players fighting for titles, so significantly less people will get them in the end.

Is it what you want really?

[wickedbastard]

No. I like bashing ppl that dont have pvp gear.
Only way i can stay above 1500 rating.

[Otimus]

Blizzard likes slow grindy treadmills to make certain people play longer to pay longer.


PVP should be it's own thing, and immediately make you the level cap, with the best possible gear. Gemming, reforging, and enchanting should all be user doable, though.
Should probably even have it's own talent trees.

Maybe have some world PVP zones, have lots of cosmetic rewards, mounts, and so on. There's a lot they could do, but never will because they're slow on the uptake of things like this, and care very little about PVP, coupled with some people fearing change.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 10:16 AM ----------

I don't mind removing all the gear from the game and giving players the same average stats based on their level.
I don't like when casual players achieve the same as I achieved when it was almost impossible to achieve just because now they can overgear the content.

But it's rpg. The whole point of rpg is to improve your character. That's why all the jewelcrafting, enchanting, alchemy, transmogrification and other such things exist in the game.

Without gear pvp will die. No one will play arena but few dedicated players. Every bloody week thousands of people go to arena to get their weekly badges cap. If you remove pvp gear from the game no one will bother.
2 weeks before the closing of arena season people will fight for titles, and that's it. And there will be significantly less players fighting for titles, so significantly less people will get them in the end.

Is it what you want really?

Frankly, if that's true (and I'm pretty sure you are mostly right, honestly), then maybe PVP deserves to die.

[Kazgrel]

The guild wars 2-model comes to mind. Great idea but it would never work with the childish spoiled members of wow.

Wow players are generally all about getting shiny rewards thats better or else its not worth it in their eyes.

I would love something like this because it would remove all gear-factor in pvp which is a really good thing.

While I agree with your sentiment, it won't happen for a couple of reasons:

1. Sub-based game
2. It would shift priorities from gearing differences/balance to class differences/balance, moreso than it is now
3. People will complain (no reason to pvp, etc.)

[Lolretadin]

The guild wars 2-model comes to mind. Great idea but it would never work with the childish spoiled members of wow.

Wow players are generally all about getting shiny rewards thats better or else its not worth it in their eyes.

I would love something like this because it would remove all gear-factor in pvp which is a really good thing.

Yeah - because having no reason to obtain better gear and having PvP stagnate and never change sounds like a wonderful idea. You are the reason taking feedback from the community seriously is a bad idea.

It is a terrible idea, and you should feel bad about suggesting it. You are asking why new players should have a hard time gearing up, and that's because the entire game is about the acquisition of new gear for progression. If you did what you are suggesting the entire community based around PvP would fall apart and die, a lot like what happened in the GW2 community. Resilience is already baseline, if you cannot learn how to deal with the grind you need to find another game as you are apparently a self-entitled little twat.
To turn your argument around; why have any gear in PvE then? PvE is supposed to be about skill, so why can't we just normalize PvE and reward only vanity items. It seems like a silly argument, but it mirrors the one you just made.

It is a bad idea, there is a reason it has never been considered.
You did not think this idea out, you should look at the consequences of what could happen.
No one agreeing with this idea should ever go into game design, we have enough bad games being released as is and don't need any more bad ideas being implemented.

[Deleted]

Yeah - because having no reason to obtain better gear and having PvP stagnate and never change sounds like a wonderful idea. You are the reason taking feedback from the community seriously is a bad idea.

It is a terrible idea, and you should feel bad about suggesting it. You are asking why new players should have a hard time gearing up, and that's because the entire game is about the acquisition of new gear for progression. If you did what you are suggesting the entire community based around PvP would fall apart and die, a lot like what happened in the GW2 community. Resilience is already baseline, if you cannot learn how to deal with the grind you need to find another game as you are apparently a self-entitled little twat.
To turn your argument around; why have any gear in PvE then? PvE is supposed to be about skill, so why can't we just normalize PvE and reward only vanity items. It seems like a silly argument, but it mirrors the one you just made.

It is a bad idea, there is a reason it has never been considered.
You did not think this idea out, you should look at the consequences of what could happen.
No one agreeing with this idea should ever go into game design, we have enough bad games being released as is and don't need any more bad ideas being implemented.

There, there. I think you need a little hug mate. So much supressed anger

[Dabrix32]

PvP is inherently about skill, correct?

If PvP was based only on skill there would only be a few 100 people playing. Maybe 5 or 6 alliance side.

[kosechi]

Simply put, the reason this doesn't happen is that Blizzard is still under the (wrong) impression that people care more about rewards than fun and competition. That may be true with raiders, I'm not sure, but it certainly doesn't apply to this part of the game.

its not true of raiders, its probably even less true of raiders then pvpers because pve loot is a lot less predictable than pvp loot.


but on some level a lot of people just like stomping on less skilled/less geared players because it makes them feel better.

i think blizz has hit a real sweet spot for gear right now, gear catchup is easy with a bit of time investment, i can get a full set via 2s before pushing serious ratings, allowing me to be on an even footing with people who have been areaning all season even if enter mid way through.

baring people sitting on ratings they got with an early season bug, at the end of the season, when everyone is making their serious push for titles they are all going to have the same gear. blizz is balancing around the 2.6k+ bracket, not the 1.5k bracket.

[XangXu]

People will still cry, as the most recent patch has shown us. With everyone being at the same resil, and pvp power not being as powerful as your primary stat, real pvpers are still winning.

So my point is, even if everyone did have the same gear, pvpers would still cream you and people would still cry about it.

And why shouldn't pvpers have something to work towards. I pretty much just do bgs these days and i'm almost full Tyr because of it. If there was no progression or sense of accomplishment, i'd probably cancel my accont.

---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 05:18 PM ----------

I would actually say that a better idea would be to buff each set of old seasonal gear with something that would help out the player. Maybe something like... Each time you receive a critical hit you gain damage resistance for a few seconds. There would be an icd as well of course. It would be enough incentive for new players to try pvp, but not encourage pvpers to downgrade their gear.

[meathead]

there was nothing wrong when pvp gear was just as powerful as pve gear.its all fucked up now,pve gear being better then some pvp gear in instanced pvp =lmfao= broken.go ahead and say im wrong,but all you pve lovers know im right.all blizz did was hide really issues with this gear scaling crap.class balance is what needs to be fixed.gear was at the bottom of the list.but most of you fell for blizzes little trick and still think its a good idea.

blizz never said they are making pvp better or improving pvp for pvpers.all blizz said was they wanted to get more pvers into pvp,lmfao.wow is a shell of its form self,and the sub #'s will continue to drop.

go look on rifts official forums and read all the crying by new players saying they need to balance pvp.lmfao.its the same bads that cry about wow pvp.class balance/talents are the problem gear is not.

[XangXu]

there was nothing wrong when pvp gear was just as powerful as pve gear.its all fucked up now,pve gear being better then some pvp gear in instanced pvp =lmfao= broken.go ahead and say im wrong,but all you pve lovers know im right.all blizz did was hide really issues with this gear scaling crap.class balance is what needs to be fixed.gear was at the bottom of the list.but most of you fell for blizzes little trick and still think its a good idea.

blizz never said they are making pvp better or improving pvp for pvpers.all blizz said was they wanted to get more pvers into pvp,lmfao.wow is a shell of its form self,and the sub #'s will continue to drop.

go look on rifts official forums and read all the crying by new players saying they need to balance pvp.lmfao.its the same bads that cry about wow pvp.class balance/talents are the problem gear is not.

Is Rift's pvp decent? I have been thinking of switching now that it is F2P

[Coraulten]

Yeah - because having no reason to obtain better gear and having PvP stagnate and never change sounds like a wonderful idea. You are the reason taking feedback from the community seriously is a bad idea.

It is a terrible idea, and you should feel bad about suggesting it. You are asking why new players should have a hard time gearing up, and that's because the entire game is about the acquisition of new gear for progression. If you did what you are suggesting the entire community based around PvP would fall apart and die, a lot like what happened in the GW2 community. Resilience is already baseline, if you cannot learn how to deal with the grind you need to find another game as you are apparently a self-entitled little twat.
To turn your argument around; why have any gear in PvE then? PvE is supposed to be about skill, so why can't we just normalize PvE and reward only vanity items. It seems like a silly argument, but it mirrors the one you just made.

It is a bad idea, there is a reason it has never been considered.
You did not think this idea out, you should look at the consequences of what could happen.
No one agreeing with this idea should ever go into game design, we have enough bad games being released as is and don't need any more bad ideas being implemented.

There is no need for gear progression in pvp when pvp is supposed to be about skill.

Please provide the evidence to your statement " If you did what you are suggesting the entire community based around PvP would fall apart and die, a lot like what happened in the GW2 community" And you clearly did not play GW2 because it fell apart due to a lack of an endgame. The pvp is the most successful part of the game.

Apparently because people disagree with you they are a "self entitled little twat" maybe in a discussion you should try not resorting to ad hominem?

That is a flawed "turn around". While skill plays a huge factor in PVE, it is gear based. unlike pvp where its supposed to be completely skill based.

Your subjective view on that "it is a bad idea" is just that, your view. So you have absolutely no idea if its been considered or not. You once again just throw out insults instead of providing actual feedback.

How about you try posting again with actual objective feedback?

[Deleted]

what gear disparities?! atm with the season catch up you can pretty much be on the same level with people who played all the time. its mmo after all, you cant take gearing away from it.

[Deathgoose]

The guild wars 2-model comes to mind. Great idea but it would never work with the childish spoiled members of wow.

Wow players are generally all about getting shiny rewards thats better or else its not worth it in their eyes.

I would love something like this because it would remove all gear-factor in pvp which is a really good thing.

Guild Wars 1 used that model back when WoW was still in Vanilla. You could select from a premade set of gear relevent to your class/build, just like everyone else, so gear was largely a nonfactor, and then it just boiled down to class/spec combinations and skill. And that gear was only usable when you did PvP matches.

I've said that about WoW PvP since forever. Gear should never be an issue in organized PvP, whether it's BG's, RBG's, or Arenas. WPvP isn't organized and is inherently unfair by nature, so meh, don't really care about that.

[justinmccray111]

Wrong. PVP is also about the enjoyment in specing, gemming, enchanting, reforging,theorycrafting according to how you want to play, how you enjoy playing etc.

Also skill is a vastly overated term. It suits ****-hurt players to think they are skilled when they lose and blame everything else for their defeat (i.e. I was undergeared, or I played the wrong class, my teamate sucked)

Wrong. Pvp is about enjoying pvp.

Its about skill andd how you communicate with your teammate or teammates.

Fyi, 5.3 made pvp less about gear and more about how you play your class and how you coordinate/communicate.

If you know what pvp is like you know u take talents, take specs for different reasons, circumstances, scenario. Same eith glyphs. This and enchanting, gemming, etc., are secondary. Not the focus of pvp.


They already normalized pvp to an extent with an item level cap. Also see low level pvp.

If you have low gear, your gear gets scaled to the highest in that bracket.

My 87druid gets some gear scales to 463 or 476.

Gear normailization is already here.

[ComputerNerd]

If you want normalized PvP, go play chess or battleship.

Even in both of those, someone will have the first turn.
Someone has an advantage right from the start.
Is there any such game where both start at exactly the same time ?

Players like progression, they like their effort, their results to pay off in something tangible.

there was nothing wrong when pvp gear was just as powerful as pve gear.its all fucked up now,pve gear being better then some pvp gear in instanced pvp =lmfao= broken.go ahead and say im wrong,but all you pve lovers know im right.all blizz did was hide really issues with this gear scaling crap.class balance is what needs to be fixed.gear was at the bottom of the list.but most of you fell for blizzes little trick and still think its a good idea.

blizz never said they are making pvp better or improving pvp for pvpers.all blizz said was they wanted to get more pvers into pvp,lmfao.wow is a shell of its form self,and the sub #'s will continue to drop.

go look on rifts official forums and read all the crying by new players saying they need to balance pvp.lmfao.its the same bads that cry about wow pvp.class balance/talents are the problem gear is not.

That is not a new problem by any means.
Both have been issues for quite some time, and you are only choosing to be ignorant when complaining and calling other people "bads" when really it is you being bad in using a flawed argument simply to make yourself look better or superior when simply you are not.

Gear is part of the problem, balance is part of the problem.
And it will remain broken simply due to the sheer quantity of classes and specs.
The game was never balanced, and it will never reach that point when you shove more options into something which was never able to be that in the first place.

Best we can do now is slow it down to the point where decisions can be made, where you can by your actions counter something.
But not to the point where it takes an hour to run a healer OOM.
Whether there is a happy medium here, a suitable balancing points remains to be seen.

[meathead]

Is Rift's pvp decent? I have been thinking of switching now that it is F2P

rifts pvp is far from perfect-even more so at low levels.but at 60 its not bad at all and the game is pretty cool.you can be any spec "tank,dps,heals" and do well in pvp if you know what your doing.there is no rated pvp in rift but there is also face rollers and oped classes like wow devs seem to love.

i would tell you to try it out,why not its free right.the gear scaling in rifts pvp is well done,wow should have copied it to the T.pvp gear is BIS for any and all pvp even wpvp,while pve gear is best for pve.

---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 08:35 AM ----------

Even in both of those, someone will have the first turn.
Someone has an advantage right from the start.
Is there any such game where both start at exactly the same time ?

Players like progression, they like their effort, their results to pay off in something tangible.



That is not a new problem by any means.
Both have been issues for quite some time, and you are only choosing to be ignorant when complaining and calling other people "bads" when really it is you being bad in using a flawed argument simply to make yourself look better or superior when simply you are not.

Gear is part of the problem, balance is part of the problem.
And it will remain broken simply due to the sheer quantity of classes and specs.
The game was never balanced, and it will never reach that point when you shove more options into something which was never able to be that in the first place.

Best we can do now is slow it down to the point where decisions can be made, where you can by your actions counter something.
But not to the point where it takes an hour to run a healer OOM.
Whether there is a happy medium here, a suitable balancing points remains to be seen.

try to be a wise ass and take little jabs at me all you want,i could care less.the bottom line is classes and talents and the refusal by blizz to separate pvp and pve in wow is the problem.no gear is not a problem in wow,the only time that has been the case is when pve is better then pvp gear in pvp.

i have never cried or thought it was hard to get pvp gear,its the easiest set to get in game.you hit 90 and convert your justice points into honor and bang you got 3 or 4 pieces,another day or 2 of bgs and you got full set,wow talk about hard.

your right the game was never 100% balanced but in BC the pvp was far far better then the shit they call pvp now.wrath was the start of the decline of wows pvp "funny thats that about the same time GC took over". wow is all about little kids and how they can keep you playing.

whats funny is yuou never said a word on how fucked up the gear scaling is when having a set of pve gear makes it so you do not need to get the honor set.you dont think thats broken?o thats right you like it that way so you do not have to pvp to get pvp gear.why not just exchange all you justice point for honor and get a full set for free?o thats right you want bis for free fuck that honor shit right?

why does blizz not improve pvp for pvpers,you know fix the problems in wows pvp?because they can do something dumb like gera scaling and get a bunch of kids into pvp to try and hide the drop in subs #"s.these kids do not have clue what wrong with wows pvp.

like i said a million times the wow killer will be wow itself.