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  1. #181
    The Lightbringer Huntaer's Avatar
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    Jul 2009
    Yes i am. So sad that he got corrupted by an old god, we had to finish him off
    Poor guy, he all meant it so well.
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  2. #182
    Being sad about him requires being emotionally attached to him, which I didn't think was possible.

    Yeah, that's a no.

  3. #183
    In the comic and story Garrosh kinda got his butt handed to him when they did fight.

  4. #184
    The Patient Wulfstan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    United States, Pennsylvania
    So who is gonna be the new warchief?
    The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.- George Carlin

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by icausewipes View Post
    I thought Garrosh dropped thrall on his tree hugging backside in combat?

    Thrall was a weak leader (easiest to kill as a faction leader imo) and i hope Garrosh rips the life out of him.
    That has been retconned to Thrall beating Garrosh and if the fight weren't interrupted Garrosh probably would have died. Thrall has also undergone a dbz style of power up and could kick the ever living the ever living fuck out of Garrosh. But I didn't find Thralls leadership of the Horde very interesting, still want Garrosh to throttle Aggra to death.

  6. #186
    One minor correction, the fight between Jesus and Roid Rage was not to the death, it would have been until one was defeated or unable to fight. Basically a nasty version of saying uncle.

  7. #187
    The Lightbringer icausewipes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Medusa Cascade
    So the Wrath event happened before or after the comic? Thrall going dbz is fine and all but we both know it takes an expansion for him to power up.
    Last edited by icausewipes; 2013-06-15 at 04:23 PM.
    Hope you find what you are looking for.

  8. #188
    I find majority of MoP lore sad. So yeah garrosh dying makes me sad as well.

  9. #189
    Pit Lord Lora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Some random weird place
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcor View Post
    It's been revealed since the start of MoP.

    5.4 Garrosh dies. Nobody likes him, The Alliance hates him, The pandas hate him, The horde hates him. Besides extremely fanatical orcs.
    Not that he dies, just that he is dealt with. He could easily pull a Kael'thas and come back to life later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uggorthaholy View Post
    Thanks but no thanks, Lora, for making me question everything in existence forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Damajin View Post
    Yes but then again I believe in both the rational and irrational, and definitely think there's more to existence than just this life. People don't have to like it or agree and I don't have to care.

  10. #190
    If they decide to "redeemed" him, by having the Sha sucked out of him by some funny schenanigans, then please promote him to Chief Clefthoof-Herder of Nagrand and never mention him again. The most depressingly boring and one-sided lore figure to date, we get it Garrosh, you really like orcs and your favorite hobby is pooping on everyone else. NEXT.
    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

  11. #191
    Mechagnome Deadhank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Behind the Clouds
    As much as I hate him (since Outland, not recognizing Grom's story), he is just plain BADASS right now. The new model, all that massive slaying machine... A shame he is insane.

    I like him more this patch, eventhough we don't have a lot of stuff about 5.4. But seriously, using Sha and Old God power (not counting elemental slavery and demonic power) as weapon is AWESOME. Insane, wrong, but plain AWESOME. He's just a badass boss to kill. I don't want him to live, I don't want him as Warchief, I just find him one of the best villains yet (ONE of, don't bash me).
    "Ah... you have learned much... and learned well... an honorable battle.
    In the end, I stood by the warchief, because it was my duty, and I am glad that it was you who struck me down.
    May your strength... lead the horde... into a new era of prosperity..."

    -General Nazgrim

  12. #192
    As much as i dislike Garrosh, the one time i was impressed with his actions was in the quest "To Be Horde..." watch the video on utube if you havn't seen it but his actions/decisions there were good.. since though he has gone downhil..

  13. #193
    I suddenly have the opinion that despite him being the final boss, he's still going to be Warchief afterwards.

    They're gonna pull some more silly post-fight garbage, where you don't actually beat the enemy, just put him to sleep, or whatever. We're basically gonna "cure" Garrosh instead of killing him, because it wasn't his fault he's so mean, it was the Sha, the Old God, and the temptation of power.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcor View Post

    To go deeper into detail though. He is a pompus asshole nobody likes. If we never went to pandaria he would have been overthrown anyway.

    Voljin hated him at the start of Cataclysm, Even told him to watch out because "When the black arrow pierces your know who fired da arrow"

    Silvanas has no care for him at all. In Gilneas she was forbidden to use the plague but disobeyed him anyway.

    Baine hates him for sending assassins to kill his father

    Nobody likes him except for the extremely fanatical orcs. He has over-stayed his welcome. He is not a leader like Thrall, He is a tyrant. And if anything is to be believed..he is doing something evil under Orgrimmar.

    Grom died for nothing, Garrosh threw away everything. It's time he goes.
    Was this before Cairne and Garrosh dueled?
    My understanding of Cairne's death was

    Shocked at the rumors that the new Warchief slaughtered innocent druids, Cairne challenged Garrosh Hellscream to an honorable duel in the arena of Orgrimmar. Prior to the battle, Magatha Grimtotem offered to bless Garrosh's weapon, Gorehowl. However, unknown to Garrosh, Magatha secretly poisoned the weapon with a potent toxin.

    During the course of the fight, Cairne appeared to have the upper hand until his ancient Bloodhoof Runespear is shattered by Gorehowl. Garrosh attacked again, cutting Cairne along the duration of his chest. As Cairne began to retaliate, the poison from Gorehowl sank into his blood, weakening him. As he died from the poison he realized Magatha's betrayal, his final thought "And so, I, who have lived my whole life with honor, die betrayed".

    His body was taken to Thunder Bluff, and after the uprising of the Grimtotem and retaking of Thunder Bluff by his son, Baine, Cairne's remains are placed upon a pyre along with the shattered debris of his Runespear. Thrall returns to mourn him, devastated by the loss of his friend. In a final farewell and show of honor to his friend, Thrall took a small piece of the shattered Runespear with him.

  15. #195
    Dreadlord yuca247's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    I never liked the direction they took him from a lore perspective but I wouldn't go as far as saying I would be sad if he died.

    Now when Arthas died I cried a river lol jk I really did.
    "Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?"
    "That is the only time a man can be brave."
    -Lord Eddard Stark

  16. #196
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    The Gurubashi Arena. Waiting for you. All of you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    Yet you can't see how being angry at his general for doing something then doing the same thing later on is a massive change in his character? >.<
    Krom'gar destroyed a huge part of the land he was meant to conquer INTACT for the Horde. So he was a failure, and died as such. Plus, he killed scholars for nothing, which has been a "shame" to the race Garrosh so proudly love, since a bunch of orcs made this shit. It is not that Garrosh cared for the lives of the innocents, he was just "ashamed" that unarmed civilians and children were killed by his soldiers, and desired to kill Krom'gar with all himself because the sucker covered the orcish race of shit and dishonor.

    Behind Garrosh's lolethics there was always been a selfish caring about pride, honor and "looking-great" feeling.

    On the other hand, Theramore was not a land to conquer for resources, and was full of enemy soldiers, let alone that was an utter military target by itself, and he had great plans about kicking the night elves from Kalimdor, which absolutely required the razing of Theramore. Garrosh have no reasons for feel "ashamed" here, on the contrary, he sees it as a badass victory.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-15 at 05:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by icausewipes View Post
    I thought Garrosh dropped thrall on his tree hugging backside in combat?

    Thrall was a weak leader (easiest to kill as a faction leader imo) and i hope Garrosh rips the life out of him.
    I love how people use that thing to make Garrosh a Thrall-beater, while Garrosh himself says in his short-story:

    "In retrospect Garrosh knew that he was very lucky the duel had been interrupted, though he would rather have died than admit it"

    I have to admit it, i think that Thrall has been too passive as a leader, but this doesn't make Garrosh better, he remains worst by far regardless.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-06-15 at 09:00 PM.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Salandrin View Post
    No matter how much you want to see him redeemed, his Corrupted model seems to indicate he is finished.
    The title of this thread and this quote... goodness Salandrin, when will you ever stop trying to come up with "controversial" subjects for your posts only to end up with "awkward" ones? Nothing confirms Garrosh's fate following the events of the Siege of Orgrimmar. Simple. But then again it seems that so many people just bite; it must be hard to resist the temptation to make some more.

    Failed "controversial" thread as this has been, I will chime in on the off-the-subject path it has taken!

    I hope he either survives to redeem himself, although far more interesting characters haven't, like Illidan, Kael'Thas and Arthas (especially the last one, with his connection to the Light, and its teachings of good and redemption); or he dies. I can't see him surviving to be a bad guy that enticing as a concept anymore. Because he will most probably never be as powerful as when he gets himself infused with that Sha-energy-source-thingie. And an enemy that has reached his most powerful state in the past, and will never reclaim it ever again is not interesting to me. Just elite cannon fodder, which is cannon fodder nonetheless. And for his value as a character, and the value of World of WarCraft's story he is better off dead, or redeemed in a state of lesser power.

    Now, as to how things came to be like this, it's both a good development and a bad one in my opinion.

    The good part: Blizzard finally trying out something else other than absolutely evil characters, or insane/possessed ones. Welcome to ethically diverse characters' domain once again Blizzard. Finally after all these years, ever since World of WarCraft's release, we get some effort to create morally diverse characters with good and bad elements and behaviour!

    I like what they tried to do with Garrosh. His initial state of staleness, with his father's legacy bearing so heavy on him, pushing down on him, preventing him to help anyone, while disaster was unfolding all around him. And the way the player's actions along with Thrall's intervention, help him arise and be the orc he can be.

    Only to come face-to-face with the grim reality of a quite complicated outer world when he arrives on Azeroth. He follows Thrall with the best of intentions to Durotar, where he is strained beyond belief between his sense of duty to the Orcs of Orgrimmar and the reality they live in. One where merely surviving is a struggle, while trying to improve their lives comes at a great cost to themselves, and can even be said to be wrong, as it infringes on the rights of other racial factions in the area. Hence Garrosh comes across a problem he can't quite solve by cleaving it in half. What is more, he comes across those problematic situations while under Thrall's guidance, where his powers on the matter are limited, and his input not used as much due to his limited insight on things. This is pretty much the situation Eddard Stark found himself in in Game of Thrones. A warrior trying to deal with politics. And a one-sided warrior at that. Unlike Stark though, Garrosh is not all that diplomatic or has the same strength of character. What he has is time to brood. And the ripples in his valiant character start to appear.

    When he is given command of the Horde by Thrall, the doubts, fear, and anger retreat for a moment. His sense of gratitude for the honour bestowed upon him by his mentor-of-sorts, and the sense of duty to the people with whose leadership he is entrusted with, both humble him and make him determined to not fail his new, extremely important, mission. But once he is left on his own, and the positive feelings of his new role begin to fade while the dangers all around him start to surface, the signs of his change for the worse start to appear. He seeks to find in himself the tools to make things better, but along with his positive characteristics he also unearths the negative ones that he have been developing. And he uses them. And continues to do so increasingly, as the situation gets more urgent. And that transforms him from the Garrosh that wanted the best for everyone and mostly his adoptive family of Orgrimmar's orcs, to Garrosh the tyrant who will choke even his most loved ones in the effort to keep them close to protect them. That's quite a good effort there Blizzard writers!

    But the bad thing is, it's done oh so terribly in-game. And even not in the game for the most part actually! As far as the game's writing has progressed, leaps and bounds that is from the past, I only wish Arthas, Illidan and Kael'Thas got the same treatment; the in-game ways to portray the changes still leave a lot to be desired, and the exclusion of so many important elements from the game to be featured in books and comis is quite problematic. Then of course there is the community, that even in our more enlightened times seem to be for the most part stuck to the bad old "take an extreme point of view" way of thinking. And somewhere in there Garrosh loses his integrity as a character. The best of intentions mean little when the actions are not up to the challenge.

    I personally wish he manages to survive and redeem himself, then get self-exiled to wander the world and learn its ways as a humble traveller. In other words receive Arthas' "rightful treatment that was not to be".
    Last edited by Drithien; 2013-06-15 at 05:33 PM.

  18. #198
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    May 2013
    The Gurubashi Arena. Waiting for you. All of you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonridor View Post
    He's just a badass boss to kill. I don't want him to live, I don't want him as Warchief, I just find him one of the best villains yet (ONE of, don't bash me).
    Well, i agree with this. As a Horde player, i completely despise Garrosh, but by a more objective view, i like him as a villain, and i find interesting the concept behind, nothing original by itself but indeed unique in the Warcraft universe; he was not an instant evil bastard like Gul'dan, Azshara and other similar suckers, but not even a holy good guy brought to the path of damnation by the same trite theme of corruption and "inducted" madness, like all the various Arthas and Deathwing: he started as an ashamed character, a shame that Thrall removed, but unwillingly put to his back another burden, the will of Garrosh to honor his father's sacrifice, by not letting the orcs become slaves anymore.

    Then all a combination of his inherited bad nature (not evil, just bad), the will to honor his father's sacrifice becoming an obsession turned in excessive and blind pride, his premature and unfitting role as Warchief (the unquestionable power of such a position got to Garrosh's head) and another bunch of ill-fated events, like the death of Cairne and the joining of Malkorok in the Horde, put him to the worst wagon, making him completely following his nature of "Hellscream", ironically commiting his father mistakes (desperate times need all the power achievable) while following his supposed "will".

    And having Garrosh now doing all this epic amount of shit, all by his own will, make him both epic as a villain and still terryfingly coherent with his "dream" of freedom for the orcish race. And he's not someone like Arthas, that had a huge drama and heart-breaking story, that you basically felt more sorry for him when you killed him than anything else; he's a villain that follow his own will, not manipulated and tricked like a dumbass by some evil force, he aims, on the contrary, to BEND the evil forces to him and to his race, for follow and achieve the same goals he had when he was just an inexperienced warrior that had the best intentions for preserve his people safety, pride and history, even if now he's basically destroying the world in his twisted obsession.

    I find it simply brilliant, and finally not another trite villain that started with good intentions and then, oops, became used like a tool by some smartass doing his bidding. Screw that.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-06-18 at 12:41 AM.

  19. #199
    Mechagnome Deadhank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Behind the Clouds
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Beautiful. Exactly what I mean. Arthas is probably my least favorite villain. Garrosh is a villain that will not kneel, but make EVERYONE kneel. Sha, demons, old gods, EVERYTHING will be used as a weapon. The way he uses it as a WEAPON instead of just blindly bending his knee to a greater entity is just BADASS. I like this Garrosh - as a villain, ofc, no way in hell I want him as a warchief, maybe an alternate faction leader, but not the HORDE.

    And finally, we get a legit Gorehowl to drop, not from a random demon in KZ, from GROM'S SON. I wish the colors were better tho, not a fun of purple/pink. haha

    Anyway, I'll gladly charge through all those Kor'kron (with a pain in my heart, of course) and chop that badass bloodthirsty head off his shoulders. With luck we get to see Saurfang do it, or even Thura (his niece - shame it's a Knaak character and all).

    "Ah... you have learned much... and learned well... an honorable battle.
    In the end, I stood by the warchief, because it was my duty, and I am glad that it was you who struck me down.
    May your strength... lead the horde... into a new era of prosperity..."

    -General Nazgrim

  20. #200
    To be honest no I'm not. I personally think Garrosh is a fantastic character. He's a psychopathic bloodthirsty tyrant who really brought some great story to WoW this expansion. The thing is, what goes up must come down and Garrosh needs to be stopped one way or another, and a great fight (fingers crossed, please not another Deathwing) in which Garrosh is finally stopped, is going to be a great ending to a really great villain in WoW. Though I will miss his brutal warfare and interesting personality, I know that a good death is the only way to wrap up such a corrupt badass storyline.

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