Does anyone else find it sad Garrosh is going to die?

[Deleted]

I'm so fed up with this 'omg, blizzard ruined his character, its so saaad, they caved into whiners'. Funny how when I talk about how regretable it is seeing the vale destroyed, people accuse me of QQing about it, but when you all complain about a bad character actually showing his true colors... oh nevermind.. this is the same old song and dance.

Learn some god dam common sense people. You follow an obvious bad guy, he ends up doing bad things, and you only have yourselves to blame for it when you feel like you've been cheated.

Its like seeing a wife go back to there same abusive husband, convincing herself he's a good guy really, she just needs to put up with him beating her. Your all BPS.

To be frank there is no common sense whatsoever in your post.

You can't read in between the lines that Blizzard decided to make his character comically villainous all of a sudden to appease to the meat heads who couldn't give him a second chance? That him objecting over bombing innocents and now him suddenly resorting to bombing innocents is not a convenient shift in character? Or are you gonna tell me that Garrosh in Cataclysm is even the same character as the Garrosh in Mists of Pandaria?

[K-b]

I'm so fed up with this 'omg, blizzard ruined his character, its so saaad, they caved into whiners'. Funny how when I talk about how regretable it is seeing the vale destroyed, people accuse me of QQing about it, but when you all complain about a bad character actually showing his true colors... oh nevermind.. this is the same old song and dance.

Learn some god dam common sense people. You follow an obvious bad guy, he ends up doing bad things, and you only have yourselves to blame for it when you feel like you've been cheated.

Its like seeing a wife go back to there same abusive husband, convincing herself he's a good guy really, she just needs to put up with him beating her. Your all BPS.

You see, unlike your post (which I have seen), I included very controversial content with some justification. I have a valid reason to be upset and I stated it quite lengthy instead of just posting for the sake of posting.

Your metaphor is a perfect example to this, despite making no sense to what I've stated. No one is begging to believe this character is a good character anymore, but that's the point, he isn't "anymore". He HAD good characteristics, which is 80% of what I've talked about. I may be QQing, but I'm QQing legitimately. I BELIEVED he was good, because the foreshadowing was all misdirected to let me believe a higher purpose. I never stated that Garrosh SHOULD BE REDEEMED, ABSOLUTELY, NO DEBATE, END OF DISCUSSION, I stated it myself that a character like that should die, yet judging from your post I don't believe you'v read it properly.

[Trassk]

To be frank there is no common sense whatsoever in your post.

You can't read in between the lines that Blizzard decided to make his character comically villainous all of a sudden to appease to the meat heads who couldn't give him a second chance? That him objecting over bombing innocents and now him suddenly resorting to bombing innocents is not a convenient shift in character? Or are you gonna tell me that Garrosh in Cataclysm is even the same character as the Garrosh in Mists of Pandaria?

you want to believe theres something between the lines because its the only way you can rationalize the character going down this path, rather then accepting this is how he was going to turn out all along.

What, are you someone who thought Arthas was a nice, cuddly guy, and him becoming undead and then the lich king came out of nowhere too?

Or did Illidan act all sweet to his brother and not do anything bad, and suddenly he's eating demonic skulls and taking evil powers for no reason at all?

Oh yes, YOUR the one with the common sense.. /facepalm.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 09:40 PM ----------

You see, unlike your post (which I have seen), I included very controversial content with some justification. I have a valid reason to be upset and I stated it quite lengthy instead of just posting for the sake of posting.

Your metaphor is a perfect example to this, despite making no sense to what I've stated. No one is begging to believe this character is a good character anymore, but that's the point, he isn't "anymore". He HAD good characteristics, which is 80% of what I've talked about. I may be QQing, but I'm QQing legitimately. I BELIEVED he was good, because the foreshadowing was all misdirected to let me believe a higher purpose. I never stated that Garrosh SHOULD BE REDEEMED, ABSOLUTELY, NO DEBATE, END OF DISCUSSION, I stated it myself that a character like that should die, yet judging from your post I don't believe you'v read it properly.

People believed Arthas was good too, and look how that turned out. You honestly think they turned Arthas into what he became for shits and giggles? It was a progression of his character.
And Garrosh is exactly the same. This bullcrap about 'they changed Garrosh because of the whiners', its obnoxious at best, and god dam foolish at its worst.

[JFrombaugh]

That's similar to asking, "Does anyone else find it sad that Umbridge was sentenced to life in Azkaban?"

[Glaziola]

As a loyal member of the horde I hate to see my ''Warchief'' die regardless what crimes he commited. But someone has to do it right?

[yetgdhfgh]

If find it sad that Garrosh couldve taken us to glory had his so called allies not turned on him

[K-b]

Once again, you'v failed to see the direction of where the hate is going.

Arthas, a book dedicated to him, shown how as even a child, was extremely vengeful and had it in for retribution. The progression was perfect, for what Mal'ganis forced him to do, to do everything he can to stop him. He had a single minded purpose to destroy him for what he forced him to do. He went mad, but progressively. It was JUSTIFIED.

Garrosh's story just pummeled. It took a leap. So much justification left untold, just to speculate. The speculation went in one direction, to assume he was evil , that was all there was to it, why bother justifying his evilness if the community downright hates him?

[Trassk]

That's similar to asking, "Does anyone else find it sad that Umbridge was sentenced to life in Azkaban?"

oh god.. now I can't get the image of garrosh in a pink knitted cardigan out of my head.
just another reason to kill him.

[Noorri]

The only sad part is how they butchered his character so bad from BC through WotLK to Cataclysm and now MoP. He could have been an awesome character, stepping up to his role as leader of the Horde and finally calming the conflict between the Horde and the Alliance so that we could focus on all the forces that are trying to kill us all. Instead, they choose to make him a terrible character that makes the same bonehead moves as his father. His fathers redemption story was somewhat bittersweet considering how easily he succumbed to the bloodlust, but there is nothing they can do with the current state of the Garrosh storyline that doesn't end in total oblivion when it comes to the continuing lore.

I have no idea why they chose to make the lore so stupid, but that lore combined with the over-the-top difficulty of normal mode raiding is the reason I can't be beothered to log in for more then a few minutes before a feeling of exasperation sets in.

[Okacz]

you want to believe theres something between the lines because its the only way you can rationalize the character going down this path, rather then accepting this is how he was going to turn out all along.

What, are you someone who thought Arthas was a nice, cuddly guy, and him becoming undead and then the lich king came out of nowhere too?

Or did Illidan act all sweet to his brother and not do anything bad, and suddenly he's eating demonic skulls and taking evil powers for no reason at all?

Oh yes, YOUR the one with the common sense.. /facepalm.

So, a character that is not evil has to be absolutely and perfectly good?

Illidan is a similiar case to Garrosh, glad you mentioned him. You couldn't really justify his actions that simply. He used methods on one else would use. He was called a villain because he teamed up with Naga - but wasn't Garithos the real villain, who completly rejected them? Illidan used ancient and powerful magic - but if he used it to destroy the Lich King - which he nearly did - wasn't it a good cause? And, come to think of it, didn't he rush to save Tyrande - the person completly left to die by Illidans main enemy, Maiev? Who is the monster here, who is the hero? There is no clear answer. None given in Warcraft 3.

WoW removed this part. You can't be debatable - you have to be either good or loot. Debatable characters, like Illidan or Kael'Thas didn't make the cut. Blizzard was able to create very tragic and complex characters in a RTS game, but in a MMO they just couldn't keep it that way.

With this in mind, Garrosh seems to be another example of this, rather then "he was meant to be a villian". Garrosh was a character who was debatable. Are his actions really bad, if he does it all for the prosperity of the Horde? Is Vol'Jin really right about abandoning the Warchief? Is Garrosh really this ruthless, if he cannot accept mass murder in Stonetalon? Same ifs and buts as we have seen in the Illidans case. And, just like in Illidans case, Blizzard realised that they can't keep it up in a MMO game, where the story is just the additional content for those who really enjoy it.

What did most players see when looking at Garrosh? That he was meant to replace Thrall, and nobody coul really argue with Thrall being "the guy we like". That there is no Cairne, and apparently Garrosh killed him. You can't blame the players, right? I like lore, but a lot of friends of mine just skip quests, and later ask me who the hell is Yogg-Saron. But guess what - they know they don't like Garrosh, because he is not Thrall, and he killed Cairne.

In conclusion, Garrosh was a failed experiment to create a more complex character in an enviroment that normally does not allow it, and a failed one. And then, well, turned into a bad dragon to erase him once and for all from WoW. In a simple story with the good guys and the bad guys, where every piece of story you need to know is handed right to you. Is it good or is it bad? I guess it's good, thats how MMOs work. But shame this had to happen to one of my favourite characters.

[Trassk]

Once again, you'v failed to see the direction of where the hate is going.

Arthas, a book dedicated to him, shown how as even a child, was extremely vengeful and had it in for retribution. The progression was perfect, for what Mal'ganis forced him to do, to do everything he can to stop him. He had a single minded purpose to destroy him for what he forced him to do. He went mad, but progressively. It was JUSTIFIED.

Garrosh's story just pummeled. It took a leap. So much justification left untold, just to speculate. The speculation went in one direction, to assume he was evil , that was all there was to it, why bother justifying his evilness if the community downright hates him?

your reading into this wrong. Garrosh doesn't have anything to justifies his evil with such acts. People already hated him, but it needed something to push the naysayers over and make them realize he actually is a rotten egg. Thats where this comes from, not Garrosh doing this shit with some misplaced jusification, he has no problem doing anything with this.

Hell, when I think of characters in other fictional genres who declared war against opposing sides, like lets say Magneto against humans, he did it with reason, tact, and he's even shown a degree of mercy, well still hating humans, and he has more reason to hate them then Garrosh does.
Even from the old series Gargoyles, the main villian Demona, who also hated humanity, had true build up to what she was and why she was doing it, she killed people without remorse, but unlike Garrosh, she had solid developed reason for it.

Garrosh, in all the evil acts he's committed, has never had any solid, valid reason for the kinds of acts he commit to the degree he commits them. He is the way he is because of a badly conviced plot device that needed an antagonist for several characters, and that is what Garrosh has been, he's been an antagonist to many characters in his story arch, and now he shows himself as the big bad guy, people can't process this development well.

[Destinas]

Everyone's stated that he clearly was...confused? His characteristics have changed from quest to quest, and Pandaria kept him at one level the entire time -domination. He has stayed the same way since Tides of War, and now we can see his true colors. That said, I was hoping he wouldn't be killed off. He had interesting parts about him that could have been fleshed out more in the future had he been imprisoned or exiled. However, seeing how he uses the power of Y'shaarj and becomes Cho'gall 2.0, I don't think he'll be staying around after all of that...

[Trassk]

In conclusion, Garrosh was a failed experiment to create a more complex character in an enviroment that normally does not allow it, and a failed one. And then, well, turned into a bad dragon to erase him once and for all from WoW. In a simple story with the good guys and the bad guys, where every piece of story you need to know is handed right to you. Is it good or is it bad? I guess it's good, thats how MMOs work. But shame this had to happen to one of my favourite characters.

Now thats something we can both agree on. Garrosh has been nothing but a foil for other characters, and so his progression to this point we're at now was always going to happen, either you like it or not.

[Celista]

So your saying a hulking mass of old god corrupted orc will stand around outside org... sorry, your just silly.

Nah we'd kill the corruption in the raid, that's what we'd be fighting during the encounter.

[Trassk]

Everyone's stated that he clearly was...confused? His characteristics have changed from quest to quest, and Pandaria kept him at one level the entire time -domination. He has stayed the same way since Tides of War, and now we can see his true colors. That said, I was hoping he wouldn't be killed off. He had interesting parts about him that could have been fleshed out more in the future had he been imprisoned or exiled. However, seeing how he uses the power of Y'shaarj and becomes Cho'gall 2.0, I don't think he'll be staying around after all of that...

Christie Golden called it up in what she said, Garrosh is a character who is extremely Malliable, his inner core is that of a weak character who is easily lead on by the worst kinds of thoughts and feeling,s easily corruptible.

[onesBronson]

What if I told you Garrosh doesn't die, but instead Blizzard makes him a liability to the horde like how Trade Prince Gallywix is a liability to the goblins.

[Trassk]

Nah we'd kill the corruption in the raid, that's what we'd be fighting during the encounter.

didn't work when we beat the shit out of cho'gall. Remmeber, this isn't sha corruption we're dealing it, its direct old god. He isn't going to be saved from this.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 10:00 PM ----------

What if I told you Garrosh doesn't die, but instead Blizzard makes him a liability to the horde like how Trade Prince Gallywix is a liability to the goblins.

He's corrupted by a force of evil, has killed countless people both horde and alliance, and is the one responsible for the vales destruction.

If Garrosh does survive, he won't be associated with anything other then some evil organization.

[Aurimas]

My guess is that we probably just beat the Sha out of him. Though he probably doesn't return as warchief.

[Hisholyness]

I'm still annoyed how they decided to make him a bad guy.

YES!

He was the "Hero without a way" in BC, I liked him a lot. I hate how they turned him into a monster/ villian, I want his old "I need a reason to lead/battle" from Nagrand back

[Vokal]

It breaks my that the True Warchief will meet his demise.

This absolutely.

And to answer the thread, yes I feel sad. Very sad.