Does anyone else find it sad Garrosh is going to die?

[Xiorin]

No, he was a flat and very obnoxious character that did nothing but annoy me. When garrosh became warchief was the day that horde lore became completely uninteresting to me. And since they dont let alliance do anything cool unless they are neutral, lore for me just went out the window.

[Trassk]

No, he was a flat and very obnoxious character that did nothing but annoy me. When garrosh became warchief was the day that horde lore became completely uninteresting to me. And since they dont let alliance do anything cool unless they are neutral, lore for me just went out the window.

Honestly.. thats how it feels to me too. Since they put garrosh in character, it felt like the story took a stpe backwards, which just feels poor writing and seems like the developers didn't know how to progress the story anymore.
I mean what, is this how they will do it from here on, have the horde bounce back and then intorduce another asshat horde character who screws up the status quo, and needs to be taken down, AGAIN.. really doesn't put much faith in the developers.

As yes, the alliance lore has just been so dull.

[yetgdhfgh]

NAO.

Garrosh had this set from the get go. The second you told a Hellscream it was fine to be full of pride and that his father was a savior, without telling him about any of his failings, is the second you created a monster.

His transition wasn't seen 100% perfectly, but it happened. All short stories, novels, and ingame events featuring Garrosh have all clearly followed the same path; This guy is going to go bad.

Sure, there was the ONE moment in Stonetalon, but that was almost 100% a PR event, where he is covering up his ass to appease the Tauren. Even if he wasn't in on it, it was still most likely all a show to look good infront of the Tauren Chief, so he can go and tell Baine about how nice Garrosh was.

Don't say fans sealed Garrosh's fate. This guy, from day 1, had a 99% chance of going bad. People are just mad because they liked his dad (who was just as bad as him), and somehow see Garrosh as the paragon of evil while Grom was cool.

Was garrosh hellscream a complete monster in cata?

No he wasnt

so why is he a complete monster in mop?

It was because blizz needed a fall guy a named baddie to end a expac that most people was just laughing at

So garrosh who put slyvanas in her place about using the plague and executed a general for killing innocents is now suddenly Adolph hitler

and why is that its because thrall fanboys and people who think the horde should be a bunch of hippy noble savages who need to be pitied instead of a strong faction who feel they wanted more so lets make him the bad guy of the xpac and lets write crappy books painting him into the next pol pot

The whole thing is just bullshit fanservice

I can see past the crappy writing to see a guy who had ideas of greatness for his people and its the reason i support him he is a tragic character that got shafted by blizz who was scared that MoP needed a name villian to end the xpac so they bowed down to whiny fanboys instead of taking the brave decision to let him carry on and grow as a character like varian

[Deleted]

I dont really care if he dies, he isnt that interesting in my eyes.

[babo7000]

Was garrosh hellscream a complete monster in cata?

No he wasnt

so why is he a complete monster in mop?

It was because blizz needed a fall guy a named baddie to end a expac that most people was just laughing at

So garrosh who put slyvanas in her place about using the plague and executed a general for killing innocents is now suddenly Adolph hitler

and why is that its because thrall fanboys and people who think the horde should be a bunch of hippy noble savages who need to be pitied instead of a strong faction who feel they wanted more so lets make him the bad guy of the xpac and lets write crappy books painting him into the next pol pot

The whole thing is just bullshit fanservice

I can see past the crappy writing to see a guy who had ideas of greatness for his people and its the reason i support him he is a tragic character that got shafted by blizz who was scared that MoP needed a name villian to end the xpac so they bowed down to whiny fanboys instead of taking the brave decision to let him carry on and grow as a character

Did you do the Horde intro for Twilight Highlands? Did you read the Sylvanas short story? Or Baine's?

Garrosh was always an unstable, aggressive tyrant who would charge headfirst into any conflict and expect to win. It worked for him in Northrend cause Saurfang saved his ass. Cata was much less positive.

Want to know where it failed? ToW, and that is where Garrosh made the transition from 'highly questionable leader' to 'dictator who wants to run the world'. His progression happened. Your line about crappy books makes it seems like you refuse to see this progression because you don't like how they showed it. But they did. I'm tired of people who don't know lore saying Blizzard made Garrosh do a sudden 180, when clearly that never happened.

[Trassk]

Garrosh is a foil for every other horde and alliance leader. People, learn to take what the developers tell you.

[Belisaurio]

It's just a game.

We need more Big Bad Leaders to rule us (horde)!!!
Since 2005 the Horde were the "green good community", but we can change 2-4 years (next 1-2 expansions) and just be the bad guys again (WCI/II)
With the new mini-thrall incoming, the Horde will become the "green good community" again.

[Deleted]

Yes, absolute fucking waste of a character, I've posted it a gazillion times but the butchering of Garrosh's story is even worse than Kael'thas. But Blizzard will try and redeem themselves through this obvious ploy. Zeala is carrying Garrosh's child, he's kept it quiet as he's not too bright and probably thinks having a mate will make him look weak that's probably the reason she isn't a boss. She'll end up going batshit and being killed later on leaving one of Thrall, Vol'jin or Baine to raise the next line of the Hellscream legacy and he'll be hot headed and aggressive like his father and grand father but heroic and not batshit. There you go.

[Belisaurio]

Zeala is carrying Garrosh's child

Woah!! Hellscream clan+Dragonmaw clan. Badass leader!!!!

[checking facts]

Was garrosh hellscream a complete monster in cata?

No he wasnt

so why is he a complete monster in mop?

It was because blizz needed a fall guy a named baddie to end a expac that most people was just laughing at

So garrosh who put slyvanas in her place about using the plague and executed a general for killing innocents is now suddenly Adolph hitler

and why is that its because thrall fanboys and people who think the horde should be a bunch of hippy noble savages who need to be pitied instead of a strong faction who feel they wanted more so lets make him the bad guy of the xpac and lets write crappy books painting him into the next pol pot

The whole thing is just bullshit fanservice

I can see past the crappy writing to see a guy who had ideas of greatness for his people and its the reason i support him he is a tragic character that got shafted by blizz who was scared that MoP needed a name villian to end the xpac so they bowed down to whiny fanboys instead of taking the brave decision to let him carry on and grow as a character like varian

look: in wrath of the lich king saurfang swears to kill garrosh if he goes bad. that was foreshadowing garrosh's badness way before it actually happened.

in the shattering, garrosh kills the honorable leader of the tauren. it doesn't matter whose fault that was, but it had lasting consequences on the orc-tauren relationship.

in cataclysm, your level THREE troll character witness vol'jin threatening to kill garrosh when he goes bad. that was the second "if/when you go bad I'll kill you" threat from a great figure of the horde he received BEFORE going bad. I think that should have rang a bell.

during cataclysm's revamped 1-60 experience, garrosh threatens to kill you a few times. he even puts a bounty on your head. "oh this guy is sooo cool, he wants to kill me and I love his guts"

he also threw forsaken armies to their deaths because "that was the only thing their kind was good at". blatant racism and killing your allies a good leader does not make. calling your ally a bitch doesn't do that either.

at last, in the middle of cataclysm, thrall's air side regrets giving the horde to garrosh, because he was destroying it from the inside, while thrall's fire side is angrier at garrosh than he was at gul'dan, who killed his parents and destroyed his planet.

than came the pre-MoP event, novel and MoP itself. we don't need to talk about those.

IMHO blizzard didn't even NEED to come and tell us that garrosh as a villain was planned since the beginning. it was so painfully obvious to anyone who wasn't blinded by the crybaby of nagrand's "badassery". his allies didn't like him, he didn't like his allies, people threatened to kill him everytime, he used slaves from northrend as soldiers, and that was way before MoP was even announced.

so, my conclusion is that anyone who think garrosh was altered from "the horde's savior" to a villain just to give fanservice to thrall's fans is in denial, at best. this path was always planned. it was rushed because according to blizzard they had planned another expansion before garrosh's fall, but that went through the window when MoP was greenlit and the perfect opportunity for a "war is bad" expansion arised.

[Antbregante]

Sylvanas should bring him back afterwards to keep as a pet.

[Exeris]

Only been one short time in wow that I liked him, that quest in stonetalon mountain where you blow up a nightelf village leaving a big crater. He comes and rages that we destroyed the land and then he threw a orc general to his death. Lovely.

[Wildmoon]

I will just say that I kinda like Garrosh more than Thrall. Garrosh is really true to the horde back in WC1&2 days like Doomhammer and Blackhand. Thrall's horde is lame. I also find it funny that Thrall really respects Doomhammer when DH was not any better than Garrosh at all lol.

[Dreadnor]

it's verified he's the last guy. it's not verified if he'll die. we'll see =).

[checking facts]

I will just say that I kinda like Garrosh more than Thrall. Garrosh is really true to the horde back in WC1&2 days like Doomhammer and Blackhand. Thrall's horde is lame. I also find it funny that Thrall really respects Doomhammer when DH was not any better than Garrosh at all lol.

doomhammer was garrosh-like when he was under the demonic bloodlust effect. when thrall actually met him, he was a much better orc and a much better leader. the defeat and imprisonment of his people taught him much.

as for garrosh, the very fact that he is doomhammer-like without demon blood making he go RAWR is a good indicator that he's a bad apple. IMHO he's worse than any fel orc I've ever seen.

[Deleted]

With Garrosh there is so much that went wrong in his character development. His personality switches are almost entirely portrayed in the comic, which thankfully is not referenced in game, so him going from being quite sad to RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE when we went to Northrend was so massively jarring because all of his character development was in some colourful loo roll called the comic.
They then tried to change him to be more likeable after most of the Fanbase rejected the 'cool new Orc!' to make him more likeable. Step forwards the Cata Garrosh who was still quite a thug but there was some honour behind him. That was then thrown under a bus seemingly half way through Cata and he became a douche again.

Yet more development of the character was in the book where he killed Cairne, none of which featured in game. And then of course the big book about the bombing of Theramore which gives you a great feel about how the character has suddenly changed *-again-* and yet a-ducking-gain its not mentioned in game save for an absolutely miserable scinario that was about as enjoyable as getting your teeth pulled and didn't portray ANY of what happened in the book other than MANABOMBSPLOSION!

With Garrosh they could have made him like Ogrim Doomhammer, an orc that took no shite and was a great warrior but also a respected Warcheif who was firm but fair. But instead because of him being used as a prop/tool of the comics/books and seemingly written by about 8 different people before that gibbering, weeping mess is poured into the game, we end out with a character who was designed by a committee that could not agree on anything, and the end product was only given out because it was equally disagreeable to everyone involved in its creation.

For such a pivotal and important character, he should have been developed in game not in books that don't get referenced in game at all. Same with Varian, his creation was a mess because of the comics, he appeared in a *bampf* and told us NOTHING about his past or where he'd been or why he HATED Orcs, because it was all in the comics and we was almost expected to go out and buy that crap to understand the ego with a chin.

[Exeris]

I will just say that I kinda like Garrosh more than Thrall. Garrosh is really true to the horde back in WC1&2 days like Doomhammer and Blackhand. Thrall's horde is lame. I also find it funny that Thrall really respects Doomhammer when DH was not any better than Garrosh at all lol.

A middle ground of those two I think I would have liked. Thrall is to much of a hippie for me, need more rage.

[Deleted]

A middle ground of those two I think I would have liked. Thrall is to much of a hippie for me, need more rage.

Indeed orcs need to be brutal but not evil.

[Wildmoon]

doomhammer was garrosh-like when he was under the demonic bloodlust effect. when thrall actually met him, he was a much better orc and a much better leader. the defeat and imprisonment of his people taught him much.

as for garrosh, the very fact that he is doomhammer-like without demon blood making he go RAWR is a good indicator that he's a bad apple. IMHO he's worse than any fel orc I've ever seen.

It was stated that Wowpedia that DH didn't drink Mannoroth blood.

[Deleted]

It was stated that Wowpedia that DH didn't drink Mannoroth blood.

Yep he didn't drink the cool aid, same as Thralls ma and pa and indeed most of the Frostwolf clan, but what the Orcs did to their world still affected them and made them go green.

I'd have used Doomhammer as a building point for how Garrosh could have been, perhaps make him a bit more agressive and quick to react, Doomhammer was quite the planner. And here's one thing, don't forget folks that Garrosh is probably at least a decade older than Thrall, if not a bit more. He was born and a young male (pre teen?) during the Alliiance invasion of Outland after the 1st War. Folks think of him as a young idiot, he's not, he's a middle aged idiot