Does anyone else find it sad Garrosh is going to die?

[Mormolyce]

Well I'll be glad to be rid of him, but really the worst fate he could endure is to live the rest of his life in a prison somewhere.

I'm still annoyed how they decided to make him a bad guy.

I just wish they'd made up their mind on that earlier, his lore up to Cata is inconsistent.

- - - Updated - - -

I still don't understand Blizzard's logic with building him up to be a semi respectable leader in Cata, only to see him go down such a dark path.

Emphasis on the "semi" lol. Best I can say of him in Twi Hi is that he's a reckless aggressive jackass.

They had too much of Garrosh being honourable in Cata (the stonetalon event, callling out Sylvanas)

Calling Sylvanas a bitch is not evidence of honour. Also in the context of the Silverpine questing he's actually a villain. Considering you're a loyal servant of Sylvanas there. A lot of the subtext of the zone and Shadowfang Keep is the Forsaken chafing under the restraints Garrosh imposes on them and resenting him.

The Stonetalon event didn't show Garrosh's honour, just shown that he wasn't an utter monster after all. He's not the type of character that goes to kill for the sake of killing, he wasn't and still isn't, having all his own interpretation of what an "honourable" and "glorious" battle is. Garrosh belives in a very twisted, messed up version of "honour", one that constantly adapt to the situation. Garrosh proved many times that victory is far more important than anything else for him.

IMO his level of honor shown in Stonetalon is inconsistent with some of his later atrocities.

[Haven]

Nah, his fate was sealed in "War Crimes". He's now just a generic villain who does evil shit for the sake of evilness. He no longer has personality or purpose of his own, his sole function is being an antagonist and standing in the way.

[Sole-Warrior]

Nah, his fate was sealed in "War Crimes". He's now just a generic villain who does evil shit for the sake of evilness. He no longer has personality or purpose of his own, his sole function is being an antagonist and standing in the way.

I'm not a fan of those type of villains. I like the complex villain, Rual Menendez for example is a villain who you can sympathize, since he has a good reason to be pissed off at the US.

[anaxie]

I still don't understand Blizzard's logic with building him up to be a semi respectable leader in Cata, only to see him go down such a dark path.

They had to build up new characters for expansions and his story arc covered 1-60 Cata storyline, and Highlands, the entirety of MoP, and now Warlords.

As it is right now depending on how WoD turns out Garrosh is either going to die a horrible death from someone in the past or he is going to hit Super Villan status. Hes getting extremely close.

[Zulkhan]

"one that constantly adapt to the situation" is synonymous with "inconsistent" or "bad writing".

You don't even know what a good writing is then, nor you have the slighest idea what make a character well or bad written.

A person adapt to the situation because he understands that by upoholding certain things he wouldn't achieve what he has in mind, and you're going to understand that everytime only when the harsh reality of things put you in that situation. Talking of fantasies and good things before that moment is stuff for everyone, but when you face reality and the responsibility of your success/failure fall entirely on your shoulders, you're forced to consider the reality of things in the most pragmatic way, unless you don't decide to give up your goals...and that's something Garrosh wasn't going to do.

You mean the alliance use the worgen? Using specialized elite forces as the vanguard of an attack is not evil or anything like that, it's strategic. I don't see why only garrosh is getting flak for it when almost every experienced military leader in warcraft (and outside) has done it

Don't try to defend an indefensible character if you're even unable to do it properly. If you went so far to use the Worgen/Alliance comparison for justify Garrosh means that you have no fucking idea of what you're trying to talk about.

Garrosh decided to use the Forsaken as meat-shields, he didn't plan to send them to fight, he planned to send them to die in crowds, just because they were able to survive longer than the rest of the "living" soldiers, so they were perfect for break the deadly and fortified Gilnean's defenses. This is what he had in mind, still didn't actually happened only because Sylvanas stopped him in time.

Just for make it very clear to you how "honourable" was Garrosh's tactic, if the Forsaken would have been used in that way, the losses they would have suffered would have been so fucking huge that the Alliance, led by Varian himself, would have been able to break through Lordaeron, conquer Capital City and submitting/putting down the Forsaken. As if this wasn't enough, they wouldn't have been able to sustain the Bulwark's defenses anymore, and the Scourge would have washed through Tirisfal aswell. And Garrosh was going to give a fuck about all of this? Obviously not.

It's this enough to you or you have to add some nonsense of yours?

Except noone said he had to be a 'somehow positive character' (in your eyes), they just had to have him maintain orcish honor and actually lead the horde as a whole.

Yours is a fan's wish, and stories shouldn't be wrote just for please fans. "Maintain orcish honor" means nothing. Garrosh stated in his early days that the Horde should have claimed the whole of Kalimdor, and in other 2 occasions (one in Wolfheart and the other in-game, during the Twilight's Highlands event) that the Horde should dominate and "unite" Azeroth under its banner, that his Horde should rule it as its "masters". Garrosh's intentions were clear from the beginning, and with more power in hand his ambitions became exponentially greater.

And you honestly think that someone with such ambitious goals will uphold "da good honour" all the time? Especially since Garrosh and Thrall had, respectively, very different interpretations of the word's meaning from the beginning. In Tides of War he didn't blow up Theramore to nothingness for "MUHAHAHAHA EVILNESS", he did it because it was part of a plan for kicking away the Night Elves from Kalimdor, in other words, using another way to achieve the same thing that he tried to achieve in Wolfheart and Cataclysm but miserably failed to do so.

It's also a mystery how Garrosh was supposed to keep "united" the Horde since he had very biased, low opinions of almost every race composing it. The only race for which he never had a strong bias is the Tauren one, but Garrosh "solved" the thing by unwillingly playing the pawn in their leader's murder. GG

There is nothing wrong with weighing people in the horde based on their combat prowess, when you create an orc at the beginning of the game this is what the cinematic told you being an orc was about. Under Thralls horde no less.

And when excatly I complained about this? Combat prowess is always an important factor, especially in the Horde and especially for the orcs, but is not and cannot be the only factor, not when you lead a diverse and multi-racial organization like the nowdays Horde.
Thrall chose Garrosh for a lot of apparently understandable reasons, but fundamentally guided by sentimentalism and stubborness, since there were guys like Cairne (one that witnessed Garrosh's best and worst side) that strongly advised him that putting Garrosh in such a position so early was a freaking bad idea. But Thrall said "naw" and left for do his world-savior stuff.

I really wish I had that comment they made about pushing garrosh's death an expansion early bookmarked, to prove it wasn't all planned to begin with easily and stop people trying to defend this nonsense.

You're dishonestly abusing a statement that had a very different meaning from the one you're pretending it is. This is nothing but a whim of someone unable to bear those nasty guys like me bursting your deluded bubble. You're going to prove no point with laughable statements like these.

Sorry to say that but you'll need something more than your offended, butthurt garrosh fanboism for decently argue with me. Just sayin'.

OT: I'm not sad he died. Better to get rid of him than to bounce him back and forth different personas trying to appease the fanbase. Characters shouldn't be meta, they should just be their written character.

Quite ironic, since you're acting excatly like one of those fans who want to be "appeased". Except that you haven't been "appeased", talking to how the character should have stayed true to his estabilshed "written character", clearly one of your imagination, since you do so without the sufficient knowledge for judge and understand that character in the first place.

Calling Sylvanas a bitch is not evidence of honour. Also in the context of the Silverpine questing he's actually a villain. Considering you're a loyal servant of Sylvanas there. A lot of the subtext of the zone and Shadowfang Keep is the Forsaken chafing under the restraints Garrosh imposes on them and resenting him.

Protar has a very fixed opinion of Sylvanas, so bitchslapping her surely sounds as something heroic and honourable to him lol

IMO his level of honor shown in Stonetalon is inconsistent with some of his later atrocities.

That bomb that fell upon the druid scholars was initially planned to be thrown on the Alliance outpost. Which is the difference with Theramore? That the bomb was smaller?

Nah, his fate was sealed in "War Crimes". He's now just a generic villain who does evil shit for the sake of evilness. He no longer has personality or purpose of his own, his sole function is being an antagonist and standing in the way.

Since Garrosh is now forsaken, shunned and hated by everyone, the risk that he's running to a "Lich King stage" is pretty huge. And we know which kind of villain Arthas became in WotLK.

[Haven]

Since Garrosh is now forsaken, shunned and hated by everyone, the risk that he's running to a "Lich King stage" is pretty huge. And we know which kind of villain Arthas became in WotLK.

The first prize still goes to Azmodan from Diablo 3, "the best battlefield commander of all demons". We beat his troops, his siege engines, his top lieutenants, his mistress, but he keeps on saying pathetic speeches about how it's all futile and how we will lose. Then we shove it up his ass.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The first prize still goes to Azmodan from Diablo 3, "the best battlefield commander of all demons". We beat his troops, his siege engines, his top lieutenants, his mistress, but he keeps on saying pathetic speeches about how it's all futile and how we will lose. Then we shove it up his ass.

Azmodan is a strange beast tbh, his whole character design doesn't exactly scream "master strategist" to me, as he looks more like a demonic bureaucrat, who's gotten so fat because he does nothing all day long, that he can hardly move. That would have sit better with Bacchus kind of god/demon with emphasis on sloth or lust.

[wariofan1]

The first prize still goes to Azmodan from Diablo 3, "the best battlefield commander of all demons". We beat his troops, his siege engines, his top lieutenants, his mistress, but he keeps on saying pathetic speeches about how it's all futile and how we will lose. Then we shove it up his ass.

The worst thing about Azmodan was that he downright told us what his plans were:
"Hah, you'll never stop us now that we're infiltrating from under the castle!"
"These catapults are quite valuable, but you'll never destroy them!"
If this wasn't typical Blizzard I'd think that Azmodan had intentions on foiling Diablo's plans from within.

[Deleted]

About as sad as when that one unspecified character from that one unspecified show who may or may not have been king dying.

[Haven]

Azmodan is a strange beast tbh, his whole character design doesn't exactly scream "master strategist" to me, as he looks more like a demonic bureaucrat, who's gotten so fat because he does nothing all day long, that he can hardly move. That would have sit better with Bacchus kind of god/demon with emphasis on sloth or lust.

Well, he's no fighter, he's the type that sits behind the lines while his armies do the job, kind of fits this. And he is Lord of Sin after all. I guess they decided to give him a "battlefield general" theme because you know, Diablo is all about fighting hordes of demons. Although I would've enjoyed a whole act devoted to debauchery, depravity, sloth, drunkedness, and sex - although the latter would obviously not make it due to age rating. It's odd though, flying gibs, gore and dismemberment are fine, but tits are not...

The worst thing about Azmodan was that he downright told us what his plans were:
"Hah, you'll never stop us now that we're infiltrating from under the castle!"
"These catapults are quite valuable, but you'll never destroy them!"
If this wasn't typical Blizzard I'd think that Azmodan had intentions on foiling Diablo's plans from within.

And he doesn't even try to react to the change of situation, being confident that we won't survive against another regiment of his army - right after we show that we're more than capable of doing it.

[Lazuli]

The worst thing about Azmodan was that he downright told us what his plans were:
"Hah, you'll never stop us now that we're infiltrating from under the castle!"
"These catapults are quite valuable, but you'll never destroy them!"
If this wasn't typical Blizzard I'd think that Azmodan had intentions on foiling Diablo's plans from within.

Don't forget about the lord of lies... who completely fails at lying. The entire game is just a disgrace to the diablo franchise.. makes me cringe.

[Arrashi]

I think that garrosh won't die in WoD. Instead he will escape to some cool place (like lets say nebula with cool name) with his followers, and use his time/dimensional powers to launch black crusades against azeroth. It will be new holiday event (since people complain that blizzard dont care about updating holidays).

[Strafer]

He and his father will be back in the next expansion.

World of Warcraft: Return Of The Hellscreams

Like a boss.

[Haven]

Don't forget about the lord of lies... who completely fails at lying. The entire game is just a disgrace to the diablo franchise.. makes me cringe.

That's what Blizzard has come to. They provide unmatched gameplay, but awful storylines.

[Raiju]

Yours is a fan's wish, and stories shouldn't be wrote just for please fans. "Maintain orcish honor" means nothing. Garrosh stated in his early days that the Horde should have claimed the whole of Kalimdor, and in other 2 occasions (one in Wolfheart and the other in-game, during the Twilight's Highlands event) that the Horde should dominate and "unite" Azeroth under its banner, that his Horde should rule it as its "masters". Garrosh's intentions were clear from the beginning, and with more power in hand his ambitions became exponentially greater.

I'm not a huge fan of garrosh, and Once again you seem to be speaking from an anti-garrosh POV the whole time. What is WRONG with a horde warchief who wants to conquer? The factions are meant to be against eachother. That is the point of the entire MMO.

And when excatly I complained about this? Combat prowess is always an important factor, especially in the Horde and especially for the orcs, but is not and cannot be the only factor, not when you lead a diverse and multi-racial organization like the nowdays Horde.
Thrall chose Garrosh for a lot of apparently understandable reasons, but fundamentally guided by sentimentalism and stubborness, since there were guys like Cairne (one that witnessed Garrosh's best and worst side) that strongly advised him that putting Garrosh in such a position so early was a freaking bad idea. But Thrall said "naw" and left for do his world-savior stuff.

Except it's not the only factor. We saw that goblins who proved themselves useful were held high in Garrosh's horde. We saw how he was very lax with the blood elves until they couldn't do what he expected of them. I don't think garrosh should've been warchief either, but hey if you want to put words in my mouth.

You're dishonestly abusing a statement that had a very different meaning from the one you're pretending it is. This is nothing but a whim of someone unable to bear those nasty guys like me bursting your deluded bubble. You're going to prove no point with laughable statements like these.

Sorry to say that but you'll need something more than your offended, butthurt garrosh fanboism for decently argue with me. Just sayin'.

So you know what quote im talking about it but still refuse to bring actually anything (you wrote fucktons for actually saying nothing but "you're wrong garrosh is a douche" 20 times). How constructive.

Quite ironic, since you're acting excatly like one of those fans who want to be "appeased". Except that you haven't been "appeased", talking to how the character should have stayed true to his estabilshed "written character", clearly one of your imagination, since you do so without the sufficient knowledge for judge and understand that character in the first place.

Aaah yes, clearly anyone who disagrees with you is a fanboy. Despite you having a dislike of war in warcraft... christ. Should we all have bowed to lothar from day 1 and played happy families? War is what makes this franchise and it was a step in the right direction to attempt to bring the hostility back between factions, that for the most part was solely player maintained previously,

Overall, you brought nothing constructive except insults, and broke forum rules multiple times. But I'm used to that from anyone around here who blindly defends blizzards portrayal of garrosh over the years

[Goradan]

No Fuck Garrosh He deserves to die. He is an idiot who cann't that despite the obvious difference Sha and Fel energy is Bad and corrupting. It's like being mentally colour blind to that simple fact bad is bad and choosing a different kind of evil does not make it right to use it or even "good". But the Biggest difference between Him and his father is that his father in WC3 ACTUALLY APOLOGIZED to Thrall for fucking up and getting hooked demon blood for a seconded time, Garrosh on the other never no even once realized were he messed up and keeps on making trouble to fuel his messed up ego. Garrosh is a foil to his own father because his is the incarnation of the Alliance view of his own father along with all the bad thing that his father represented.

The difference between father and son is that Grommash lived up to his name at time and had a perfect understanding of honor and true wanted to redeem himself and his race for his mistake while his son only lives in a shadow of dead legend and has tainted it with his deluded view of it and no true had a sense of humility or gratitude.

[Deleted]

Implying being strong for your people is bad. Garrosh is an Orcish hero, and he didn't try to be anything else and is unapologetic.

The Horde is at it's weakest point in history because he was dethroned. Strongest to weakest in one betrayal. Vol'jin is the one who should be trialed and executed.

[cityguy193]

Implying being strong for your people is bad. Garrosh is an Orcish hero, and he didn't try to be anything else and is unapologetic.

The Horde is at it's weakest point in history because he was dethroned. Strongest to weakest in one betrayal. Vol'jin is the one who should be trialed and executed.

Which horde though? Its not the same horde anymore, and im sure if Garrosh's followers were in the position of winning the conflict, vol'jin would be executed.
But Garrosh lost, the old horde was overthrown. Collectively though, yes, the horde is very weak right now.

[docterfreeze]

No Fuck Garrosh He deserves to die. He is an idiot who cann't that despite the obvious difference Sha and Fel energy is Bad and corrupting. It's like being mentally colour blind to that simple fact bad is bad and choosing a different kind of evil does not make it right to use it or even "good". But the Biggest difference between Him and his father is that his father in WC3 ACTUALLY APOLOGIZED to Thrall for fucking up and getting hooked demon blood for a seconded time, Garrosh on the other never no even once realized were he messed up and keeps on making trouble to fuel his messed up ego. Garrosh is a foil to his own father because his is the incarnation of the Alliance view of his own father along with all the bad thing that his father represented.

The difference between father and son is that Grommash lived up to his name at time and had a perfect understanding of honor and true wanted to redeem himself and his race for his mistake while his son only lives in a shadow of dead legend and has tainted it with his deluded view of it and no true had a sense of humility or gratitude.

I think Garrosh was pretty honorable, he demolished Thrall in a fair 1v1 and didn't surrender even though he had the Alliance and the Traitors knocking on his door. Also can't forget about the whole Stonetalon thing. The only dishonorable thing he did was send an assassin to kill Vol'jin, but to be fair Vol'jin told Garrosh he was going to assassinate him first, (In the vision Vol'jin shows in the fire in the Troll starting zone.)

[Pony Soldier]

I'm still annoyed how they decided to make him a bad guy.

This is is pretty much how I feel about Garrosh. Before Blizzard made him all power hungry, I thought he was the best Warchief we had. I liked him better than Thrall and not only as a Warchief but also as a character. He gave the Horde a backbone and made us more intimidating than when Thrall was leading us. He made the Horde feel like the Horde should feel and hell, he made Orgrimmar look so badass instead of having Orgimmar look like Cave Man city. I like Thrall, he's one of my favorite Warcraft heroes but as a Warchief, I thought Garrosh did a better job, for a time at least. Blizzard could have made him into an awesome character. So awesome they could've potentially made Varian Wrynn look like a wimp compared to Garrosh.

But hey, it's their game and they're the experts not us. We may not agree with everything Blizzard decides to do with WoW but you have to respect their game and the decisions they make.