Current state of PVP - World of Huntercraft

[TJ]

Of course they other dps (assuming 3s) will out out pressure, but since the whole point of this argumentation, is that hunters will oneshot you when they blow cools, it should be obvious, that if THAT is your main reason for loosing, and this is where you BELIEVE the main pressure and reason for you to leave stems from, that THIS is where you should use your cools.

If you are being forced to bubble in some uncoordinated pressure attempt from a 2xdps 1xhealer 3s team WITHOUT the hunter blowing any cools, well then we are back to my original statement of this being a L2P issue.

Honestly, that shit just doesn't happen if you know what your doing, even remotely.

If you face a KFC team as....whatever team, freakin Ele shaman, Lock, resto druid, and the warrior alone can pressure you into bubbling WITHOUT the hunter using cools, then the problem is NOT with the hunter, its with you.

Come on man, you must be able to see that?

The point is about how easy it is for bad Hunters to do well in arena. Hunters don’t have to blow cd’s to do good damage, if the healer is cc’ed for over ~15 seconds then they don’t need cd’s to deal out pressure. You’re going to say “that’s when the player should use their defensives” yes, yes they should. But the low cd of cc’s makes it easy for this to be setup again and used when the player doesn’t have the defensives. Readiness resetting cd’s makes for insane pressure on demand, also. You’re also assuming that the Hunter is bad and that he will blow all of his cd’s instantly and that you will then use yours. Since you’re talking about decent arena and not 1500 (since in low arena YOU CAN pressure a team on your own) we’re not going to assume that. So, I don’t see how you can merely say “use your defensives” because the Hunter will use them in a time you can’t or are in trouble.
It’s not just the Hunter, they make the team as a whole stronger and add more synergy to the classes with easy pressure and over the top cc.

And, since the complaint was regarding double deter while blowing cool, i'm not sure who you manage to readiness and do it all over again. Your opponents got 2x readiness? Readiness EVEN RESETS READINESS!? shit son, in that case no wonder you are having a hard time

You’re still assuming that the player has their cd’s up when the Hunter uses theirs, we are also going to assume the Hunter is not bad so this won’t happen. No Hunter is going to do what you described, the player you quoted was not stating that also, he was just saying that pet damage and double Deterrence is too strong, I don’t see how that’s hard to understand. No Hunter is going to blow double Deterrence for the lols. I did misread what was said but the point still stands. You seem to be assuming every Hunter is bad, and if every class had a way to get out of “Hunter shit” then there would be nowhere near the uproar that we have now regarding the strength of Hunters

[Hand Banana]

So yeah, how did hunters manage to go from strong PvP class in 5.1 / 5.2 to king of the hill and master of all FOTMs in 5.3, with all those nerfs?

Hunters werent a "strong pvp class" in 5.0-5.2, they were the strongest by a mile. They have been shitting on people all expansion, were you not around when KFC and Thugcleave were the most ridiculous comps ever? Whats the common denominator on those? Wars and rogues got their nerfs, hunters have not and now junglecleave, ret/hunter, enh/hunter, and PHDk are the new mindnumbingly strong and easy comps, all including hunters OFC.

[kosechi]

can we just put the dead zone back in so you can counter hunter burst by getting into their melee range? or at least punish them damage wise for letting people get into their melee range?

nothing more embarrassing than watching a 2k hutner try to skey away from you while you beat on him.

[PenguinChan]

can we just put the dead zone back in so you can counter hunter burst by getting into their melee range? or at least punish them damage wise for letting people get into their melee range?

nothing more embarrassing than watching a 2k hutner try to skey away from you while you beat on him.

If you did that you would probably see an increase in kiting and damage from Blizzard, even more than it is now. The used to be deadzone is a nightmare when melee can always just come right back to you. Plus if you have a caster who can snare and keep up with you, they can sit in that same exact dead zone as a melee and punish you.

[Syh]

He might be mad, but he is honest. So how about you pause the tone and give him a break?

I didn't have a tone. I simply clarified what the other guy meant, I know over the internet things can be taken differently by other people so I apologize for the confusion.

Yeah he sounds angry but the guy has a totally valid point... Hunters r pissing everyone off right now.

When it feels like u have been hit my multiple H-Bombs while fixed to the floor by an industrial nailgun, i think u can see why the PvPers who are not pros kinda get a little angry... right?

Yeah, he does have a valid point. I do feel like they're too strong and they definitely do need to be brought down a bit.

[TJ]

can we just put the dead zone back in so you can counter hunter burst by getting into their melee range? or at least punish them damage wise for letting people get into their melee range?

nothing more embarrassing than watching a 2k hutner try to skey away from you while you beat on him.

If they simply brought dead zone back and that was all, then Hunters would take a HUGE hit. Hunters would have to be compensated with likely more ways to get away from meele or something similar which would probably cause more complaining.
Not having dead zone is fine, I wish people would stop acting like it's needed. What is needed is proper changes that actually impact the problem with Hunters, not beating around the bush and doing god knows what every patch which is what is happening atm.

[Exeris]

Please, don't throw that FOTM shit around. Nobody rerolls from 5.2 to 5.3 to 5.4, so get real.]

Not sure about arena but it's pretty common for battlegrounds, when you have played the game for along time jumping characters is nice so you don't get bored.

Doesn't take that much time to lvl and gear a character, even less if you have several at 85.

[Deleted]

Please, don't throw that FOTM shit around. Nobody rerolls from 5.2 to 5.3 to 5.4, so get real.[COLOR="red"]

Except everyone does. Just look at snutz and reckful. Top rated players rerolling from their "trademark class" to play
the current fotm.

Statements like yours make you look silly, mate.

[TJ]

Except everyone does. Just look at snutz and reckful. Top rated players rerolling from their "trademark class" to play
the current fotm.

Statements like yours make you look silly, mate.

Not to mention the conquest catch up making it really easily to be fairly well geared in just 1 week.

[kosechi]

If you did that you would probably see an increase in kiting and damage from Blizzard, even more than it is now. The used to be deadzone is a nightmare when melee can always just come right back to you. Plus if you have a caster who can snare and keep up with you, they can sit in that same exact dead zone as a melee and punish you.

hunters SHOULD be kiting. and good hunters STILL won't let you get anywhere near them. the dead zone punished bad hunters for letting melee stay in melee range.

a caster who lets a melee stay in range is going to be shut down via pushback and interrupts, a hunter has no such weaknesses, they can continue to deal full damage even when they are not keeping people at a distance. you shouldn't be dealing full damage in melee range as a class designed to deal ranged damage. thats like a warrior being able to deal full damage while outside of melee range.

If they simply brought dead zone back and that was all, then Hunters would take a HUGE hit. Hunters would have to be compensated with likely more ways to get away from meele or something similar which would probably cause more complaining.
Not having dead zone is fine, I wish people would stop acting like it's needed. What is needed is proper changes that actually impact the problem with Hunters, not beating around the bush and doing god knows what every patch which is what is happening atm.

then put in a damage penalty or expertise penalty the closer a target is. the removal of the dead zone was a pve change, not a pvp change, and the devs failed to foresee the impact it would have on pvp balance.

the problems with hunters? which are exactly?

[Deleted]

Why is no one QQ'ing about any other OP classes? Hunters suck in pve atm. while mages can keep a 250k dps in a whole boss fight while hunters sit at 100k. And their dmg is not OP in pvp it's their CC that's good but it's hard to master that, but most hunters are long time players and therefore know how to play. If Blizz nerf hunters they better nerf every other class to make up for it.

---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 10:33 PM ----------

Not sure about arena but it's pretty common for battlegrounds, when you have played the game for along time jumping characters is nice so you don't get bored.

Doesn't take that much time to lvl and gear a character, even less if you have several at 85.

Reckful rolled a lock, not a hunter idiot.

[Deleted]

Reckful rolled a lock, not a hunter idiot.

Way to be a douche Snutz rerolled hunter/elesham and reckful rerolled every other op class the season it was op. rogue, shadowpriest, warrior, feral and now lock (for 5.4).

So yeah... get your facts straight before coming on the forums looking dumb

[re1gn1te]

Oh fuck it I give up, go and whine to the official forums then, hunters are clearly more broken than a GM with kill commands. Ill be back in a few months when the class is back to its good old self! (ie bugged broken and band aid'd to hell)

Apparently its impossible to be good for an expansion without people calling for the class to be burnt at the stake. I mean its not like my Mage has been good for millenia or anything, NOPE.

Found one poster with a brain! Can't agree more.

[TJ]

then put in a damage penalty or expertise penalty the closer a target is. the removal of the dead zone was a pve change, not a pvp change, and the devs failed to foresee the impact it would have on pvp balance.

the problems with hunters? which are exactly?

I think the problems have been mentioned enough times..

---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 10:12 PM ----------

Oh fuck it I give up, go and whine to the official forums then, hunters are clearly more broken than a GM with kill commands. Ill be back in a few months when the class is back to its good old self! (ie bugged broken and band aid'd to hell)

Apparently its impossible to be good for an expansion without people calling for the class to be burnt at the stake. I mean its not like my Mage has been good for millenia or anything, NOPE.

It's pretty obvious that Hunters are too strong, if you can't see that then I don't know what to say. I play a Hunter, as well, but I still admit they are out of hand. Don't be biased just because you play the said class.

[kosechi]

I think the problems have been mentioned enough times..[COLOR="red"]

please, enlighten me. all i see out of hunters right now is uncounterable uninterruptible casters.

the vast majority of problems with hunters are caused by bad players.

[TJ]

They are strong yes, but im sick of the utterly moronic posts people continue to churn out day after day. I know Blizzard says they dont cater to forum whiners but the Stampede meganerf was catering to the max, all they have to do is say "oh well we originally wanted it to be flavour" and everyone fucking eats it up.

There are ways to go about fixing hunters, but screaming shit on the forums and asking for each spell to be nerfed one after another isnt the way. Christ even Blizzard doesnt know whats wrong with them, they are just cherry picking spells and hoping to god it doesnt break the class. Whereas constructive comments are just buried under a sea of bullshit, I know the official forums are bad, but my god MMOC isnt much better.

Oh, I know the complaining is over the top and some people mindlessly complain about anything, but there is merit to a lot of complaints about Hunters.

please, enlighten me. all i see out of hunters right now is uncounterable uninterruptible casters.

the vast majority of problems with hunters are caused by bad players.

Hmmm, if that's your thinking then I won't bother.

[Hand Banana]

please, enlighten me. all i see out of hunters right now is uncounterable uninterruptible casters.

the vast majority of problems with hunters are caused by bad players.

Extremely long instant ranged cc chains on a 30 second cd that dont DR with fears or stuns (the most common ccs in the game that teammates will bring). Think of it as a fire mage with dragons breath at a 25 yrd range and instant cast sheep every 30 seconds. The only true cooldown reset. Trinket on a 1 minute cd that is also resettable. A difficult to CC and avoid pet that deals at least half of the hunters damage making stopping the hunters damage difficult. Multiple ways to kite melee and multiple ways to shut down casters, all ranged, all instant. 40 yrd range melee. Top tier damage, both burst and consistent, and like I said is very difficult to stop.

Need I go on?

[Mars_Trueskills]

I'll hop on the QQ Train.. I was playing my monk, and the only thing keeping me alive is the touch of karma, once that runs out I'm toast after the nerfs to heals in pvp. The constant dmg is honestly insane... Nerf please, nerf em' good!

[kosechi]

Extremely long instant ranged cc chains on a 30 second cd that dont DR with fears or stuns (the most common ccs in the game that teammates will bring). Think of it as a fire mage with dragons breath at a 25 yrd range and instant cast sheep every 30 seconds. The only true cooldown reset. Trinket on a 1 minute cd that is also resettable. A difficult to CC and avoid pet that deals at least half of the hunters damage making stopping the hunters damage difficult. Multiple ways to kite melee and multiple ways to shut down casters, all ranged, all instant. 40 yrd range melee. Top tier damage, both burst and consistent, and like I said is very difficult to stop.

Need I go on?

ohhhhh i thought hunters actually had weaknesses and people were telling me were a problem and justified the absurd lack of skill that hunter takes these days.

sarcasm is lost on some people.

[MPFranke]

All the hunter qq...yes we are strong and probably the strongest dps at the moment, but all the tears and exaggerations... I'm reading about 150k pet crits? I haven`t seen those. One class has to be top dog, it's just not the mage class this expansion. I am probably 200 rating higher than I should be, but I don`t care. I only get sick of the qq by players that just dont know how to play against a hunter team. Probably because they are not used to it. Some teams do know and kill my pet in 2 gcd. I ress it and they do it again. Game over. Good teams have their teammates eat traps.

Let me start my own qq train then:

-I did actually get hit by an instant monk kick for 150k. Kite it? with all the rolling and flying, you can`t avoid a monk forever, even when slowed.
-A mage did kill me in a freeze. Instant cc and enough burst to kill a player on a 30 sec cd? besides that, spammable sheep, ring of frost, freezes, counterspell, iceblock, blink out of stuns, etc.
-unholy dk`s that have 2 dots that tick for 40k on each target? lots of silence/stuns on the same cd a hunter has.
-ele shammy got lucky procs and nuked me with 3-4 spells.
feral's with instant clones, stuns, on the same cd as a hunter and just as hard to avoid. Hard to peel a druid as well if he sits on you the whole game.
-etc
-etc.

so yes, the hunter is the stongest class at the moment, but lots of qq comes from players who fail to adjust.