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  1. #201
    Easily but I doubt blizzard will ever to come up with one. It's so easy if you just have imagination, you can do many things in real life to get you things let alone a fantasy game. I really think this game can still expand massively if they focus on making more tech for the game to allow better innovations, that was always the step blizzard needed.

    I remember once when blizzard said WoW was communist and damn it sure looks like communism with the state of the game. No room to be inspired, no point to improve, just bleh. All they needed was new tech for a robust world people where could roam free and face challenges.

  2. #202
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Why do you need "gear"?

    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end. If you aren't doing activities that require high level equipment, you don't need it.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Heh. PvE gear is now much superior to PvP gear in world PvP.
    Two qualifications to that comment: "much superior" maybe if you're wearing full heroic thunderforged which almost nobody is, and world PvP = who the fuck cares.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 05:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    What's that phrase gankers like to use so much? "Wold PvP isn't fair." I believe.

    Besides, only the best PvE gear is better than PvP gear. Most people are in LFR gear or worse, drastically inferior to PvP gear.
    Eh, LFR and PVP gear are roughly the same. The truth is that gear doesn't make a huge difference in PVP anymore one way or the other, no matter what all the whiners say.

    And in world PVP 99% of the fight is who gets the drop on who, like you were saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    It originally required revered to get the heroic keys. It was reduced to honored quite a bit later.
    Hm. Yep. Hadn't hit 70 before the change. Disregard previous statement.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end. If you aren't doing activities that require high level equipment, you don't need it.
    Need and want get interchanged quite a lot, and people focus in on words that mean more than the other. No one needs anything in a video game, people want. But there are a varied level of wants everyone has, I thought that kind of was the underlying understanding. People have done it forever now as well. Taking gear as a progression is probably a good example of something that would be detrimental to many aspects of the game, removing it more than likely removing a lot of the fluff to your character.

    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Hm. Yep. Hadn't hit 70 before the change. Disregard previous statement.
    Why disregard it? It wasn't the last patch of the expansion, and it sure wasn't a bad one. It tied in well with leveling, and completing a zone for reputation.
    Last edited by PenguinChan; 2013-06-18 at 05:25 AM.

  6. #206
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Half-year or so after release D3 got Paragon Levels, and people's interest to the game started to slowly come back. But according to your logic - Paragon Levels are mistake, as you don't need them to kill Diablo Inferno?
    Yes.
    I don't understand the whole grind thing in D-III at all. Why am I supposed to grind if there's no content that requires the gear?
    It's pointless. Uuh I can slay Diablo-Inferno faster with moar gear and moar paragon levels... WAYNE.

    And that is why I stopped playing the game after I was done.

    At one point I'd wonder what would happen if Kittyvicious suggestion would come true exactly as (s)he wrote and even moreso - so that raid gear would be completely useless outside current raids (having zero stats when not in current raid). Why? Raiders need gear exclusively for raids, so let them. But I am sure that such change would cause big revolt from raiders. But maybe then they'd understand how people feel when most of character progression is locked behind raids, with immense difference in combat capabilities between raider and non-raider.
    I have non raiding alts. I know full well how it feels.

    And I also know that once you reach approx. Item level 500 everything is peachy. You don't need Heroic level gear. You can have it in the next content patch when it is outdated. Until then, your 522 valor stuff will suffice and allow you to roflstomp everything in the open world anyway.
    And don't even START with the itemization thing. You do not have to care one bit about Itemization (other than enough hit), theorycrafting etc. Why? Because: NOT RELEVANT TO YOUR PLAYSTYLE.

    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end.
    Well since gear is the only way to progress after max level, non raiding folks need.. something to look forward to. But I think they got enough as it is now.

  7. #207
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    It's not that hard. I just did the first solo scenario there on my SPriest (ilvl 458).
    I dinged my Elemental shaman last night and did all of the scenarios from the mid 440's. That said, they were pretty challenging in places and I dread to think what would happen to a new player who tried it.

  8. #208
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Why do you need "gear"?

    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end. If you aren't doing activities that require high level equipment, you don't need it.
    If that were true, heroic raids would stop raiding the second they killed the final heroic tier boss.

    Obviously, whatever gear they had was good enough, so why need more?


    Yeaaaah...
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  9. #209
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Why do you need "gear"?

    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end. If you aren't doing activities that require high level equipment, you don't need it.
    Players like to see their characters develop. When you hit the level cap, gear is the sole way in which you can do this; as a result, everyone "needs" gear.

  10. #210
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    If that were true, heroic raids would stop raiding the second they killed the final heroic tier boss.

    Obviously, whatever gear they had was good enough, so why need more?
    Simple: to get maximum gear possible in order to get an edge over the competition when NEWER, HARDER content comes out.

  11. #211
    Warchief Deldavala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    If that were true, heroic raids would stop raiding the second they killed the final heroic tier boss.

    Obviously, whatever gear they had was good enough, so why need more?


    Yeaaaah...
    If its the last tier of an expansion some guilds will stop since they dont need more gear to beat everything.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    so why need more?
    You keep raiding and gearing up in order to prepare for the next level of content. It also helps to keep the guild and the people active.

    That said, even if for the guilds and many of the players gear is merely a tool, some players also perceive it as the heart of their own character progression.

  13. #213
    TBC 5 man dungeons. You start with normals, you get gear and rep and move on to heroics. There are heroics that are harder than others. Sometimes you get a gem slightly better than what you have already. Attunement quests that make the transition from 5-mans to raids make sense.

    Too bad 5-mans are cleared by anyone with a pulse in gear from the previous expansion today :/

  14. #214
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deldavala View Post
    If its the last tier of an expansion some guilds will stop since they dont need more gear to beat everything.
    Some? Maybe.

    Most. No.

    Obviously, "seeing the content" is not the end-all.

    And honestly, if they "segmented" raids with loot drops so that you'd need to farm the start of the raid to have good enough gear for the middle part, and then farm the middle part to have good enough gear for the end, people would QQ in mass about "gating" and "artificially lengthening content."

    People often point to "casuals" detracting from raids somehow... honestly though, many people who call themselves "raiders" also contribute to "watering down" the raiding experience. I guess we could call them... "tryhards," to separate them from the nice, non-whiny raiders.

    Who do you think were the people that complained about heroic dungeons being an unnecessary, time consuming gate in cataclysm? The "I shouldn't have to spend X amount of time in heroic dungeons with peasants just so I can raid" crowd. Those are tryhards.

    Who do you think want raiding tiers that both take a long time to complete, yet allow constant progression AND immediate accessibility? The "remember when you had to progress linearly through tiers? Those were the days" people that then instantly turn around and complain about "having" (note the quotations) to run previous LFR tiers to be "competitive." Probably a tryhard.

    I'd contend they're the main problem with raiding right now. Casuals will just do whatever comes down the pipes. LFR was that "whatever" at the end of Cataclysm. People didn't beg for it, Blizzard just decided to instate it. Non-tryhard raiders are happy to go about their normal and heroic modes progressing at whatever rate they can. But tryhards whine that raids are too easy to access, and then whine when they take a decent amount of time to complete.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-06-18 at 08:51 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #215
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Kaleredar is right...
    about those wannabe Tryhards™.

  16. #216
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    I think they plan to leverage Proving Grounds to be a gearing path for casuals too. Just my thought but, its either that or scale down players to run old dungeons for special non-raid end-game gear!

  17. #217
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    about those wannabe Tryhards™.
    Kaleredar's signature is not intended to be a factual statement. Kaleredar assumes no liability in claims to his "rightness." Claims of "right" should never be interpreted to refer to anything, up to and including the opposite of left. Living by the words "Kaleredar is right" is, likewise, not intended to be a factual statement, or even recommended; not for readers of the words, and certainly not for Kaleredar. Kaleredar's assumptions of "right" may not coincide with yours. Your results may vary.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #218
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    But I do agree with the fact that it's Individuals with twisted and torn memories of the "former glory days" that hurt the game the most.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caribald View Post
    TBC 5 man dungeons. You start with normals, you get gear and rep and move on to heroics. There are heroics that are harder than others. Sometimes you get a gem slightly better than what you have already. Attunement quests that make the transition from 5-mans to raids make sense.

    Too bad 5-mans are cleared by anyone with a pulse in gear from the previous expansion today :/
    what happens today is pretty mutch based on the feedback players give, ppl wanted WoW to be alt friendly, therefore you need faster gearing progress. Ppl claim that GC and blizz and w/e dont care about what people say. But the thing is you cant please 2 w/o unpleasing atleast 1.

  20. #220
    Titan Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Why do you need "gear"?

    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end. If you aren't doing activities that require high level equipment, you don't need it.
    Ya I agree with this statement, Why do causals need gear? They have basically destoryed any kind of prestige this game had. LFR shouldn't even drop Tier Gear they don't need it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 08:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by wow2011 View Post
    I think this is a tricky one.

    Blizzard tried dailies for casuals to slowly unlock gears on their own pace. But a lot of raiders jumped in and say they are being forced to do dailies and unlock gears at an extremely slow speed.

    Blizzard created crafting for casuals to slowly get mats and create gear upgrades. But a lot of raiders jumepd in and say they are being forced to craft to prepare for raid.

    If brawler or pet battle gives out any sort of significant rewards, you will hear raiders jump in and say now they are being forced to do brawlers and pet battle.

    Basically, as soon as Blizzard add something for casual to unlock slowly for gear progression, raiders will jump in and moan about how slow it is. Then proceed to blame blizzard for forcing them to do all these extra stuff when all they wanted to do is raid. I think it will be extremely difficult for Blizzard to come up with a gear progression path for casuals to slowly progress on their own pace without raiders flipping the table and whine on forums. Even if Blizzard put in a flag that says "if you raid normal or heroic, these rewards will be blocked" to thawrt raiders feeling forced, raiders will still complain about casuals gettin "welfare epix" and scream game being dumbed down and unfair treatment.

    So in the end, the problem is in the community and less on the game design imo.
    Actually no, Majority of raiders did not complain about dailies, it was the lazy casuals who didn't wanna work for there gear. Raiders did dailies for the Lesser Charms -> Elder Charms / Mogu Runes (Extra Rolls). Lazy people need to work for stuff and progress, not be handed everything that is a major problem these days. People are to lazy to work for anything and think there entitled to every dam piece of loot. Just because it is purple doesn't mean you need it unless you are Raiding or Ranking in PvP Arenas / RBGs.
    Last edited by Arbs; 2013-06-18 at 12:21 PM.
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