We need help with Primordius HC (logs inside)

[excip]

Hey,

we are currently 5/12 hc and chose to do primordius next.

Today it was our second night and it seems that we are not getting anywhere hence changing the strat all the time trying new things but in the end the healers just get overwhelmed by the damage around 5 stacks and we have him at ~50% at that time.

• There is also a constant discussion about who should get stacks first, who doesnt get stacks at all etc.
• There is also the question what is the most efficient kite way? Inner Ring? somewhere in the middle or all the way out?

Most of the time we kept him around the inner circle/somewhere in the middle so that other players have a better chance to soak the gas bladder since we only have two melees.


we tried:

• 3 Healers, two dps on living fluid full time rest of the dps on primordius as soon as they get mutated.
• 3 healers, at the beginning everyone does adds until everyone has 4 stacks and after that everyone tries to get mutated at the same time more or less in order to get the full benifit of blood lust on primordius.
• We tried to two heal it as well. more living fluids died this way but eventually healers couldn't keep up.

We are doing something wrong maybe you can spot some grave mistakes from our logs:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l6wpo4uj1946l60r/

there was the occasional fail with the horror. Sometimes the dps wouldn't switch to the horror making a swap suboptimal or even caused some wipes as well. Once that freaking horror got stuck and evaded. those were the obvious ones. But still in the non obvious tries we would get overwhelmed at the 4:30-5 min mark. and there was still 50% to go. It would be nice to get some benchmarks that we could worked towards like at minute X he should have about X stacks of evolution and you should have about X ppl mutated.

• Should we try to get mutated at the same time or as soon as possible. How to maximize Bloodlust? when should healer get stacks?
• Should we maybe try some other bosses first? it feels that our setup is pretty shitty for this boss and a Paladin Tank could make this fight significantly easier with the off healing that he provides.

Any input overall is welcome

[Vanden]

A lot of strategies use DPS on the small adds to minimize your mutations and 5 mutations at only 50% seems maybe like a lot so that may be something to consider; I'm not sure how many we have by then but I'd like to say 6 around 30% which is close to 6 min for us I think, not 100% positive. We have no dps on the little adds and everyone is more or less responsible for their own stacks. On the pull we have everyone hit 4 stacks, then go to 5 together to burn with lust/CDs. If someone is getting bad luck with purples in their lane(s) we have them jump to a lane that already hit 4 and can kill blobs quickly (rogue, shaman).

Something that helped a lot during progression was getting a tank mutated in the first pass when everyone was getting their first 4. They'll contribute a lot of damage with their mutation and our rogue was able to quickly get the tank a mutation while still keeping up with his own stacks. For the black adds we had two ranged dps on them with the tank and that always ensured that they were dead in a timely manner. We would swap the ranged dps throughout the fight to make sure that people could continue to get their mutations (ie our ele shaman gets 5 stacks a second time then takes over our warlock's duty on the black add until the warlock gets 5 stacks and dumps his burst into primordius).

Definitely recommend 3 healing during progression. Damage can still get a bit worrisome even with 3 healers especially with the last bit if the tank damage mutation is up. Also make sure your raid is dodging the Erupting Pustules ability, they're really obvious shooting out of his head and all you have to do is sidestep a little bit away from where you were standing, but not in the direction of someone else, to avoid them. That was our biggest damage taken and our main cause of wipes.

I would also say if you're 5/13 any of Council/Megeara/Consorts/Durumu would be easier than primordius. Durumu especially because you have an ele shaman who can just solo the walls and he's just a real pushover with gear. Your comp isn't really bad for this fight, and there's really nothing wrong with taking it as your 6th heroic if you've put a lot of work into it.

[excip]

Something that helped a lot during progression was getting a tank mutated in the first pass when everyone was getting their first 4. They'll contribute a lot of damage with their mutation and our rogue was able to quickly get the tank a mutation while still keeping up with his own stacks.

We tried that the other night but abandoned that strat because some ppl say it is more effective to get the other dps players mutated first. Did you only do it in progression or did you keep that strat? What would you say about healers? As far as I can tell in our tries they stole the occasional stack since healing is so intense for them.

For the black adds we had two ranged dps on them with the tank and that always ensured that they were dead in a timely manner. We would swap the ranged dps throughout the fight to make sure that people could continue to get their mutations (ie our ele shaman gets 5 stacks a second time then takes over our warlock's duty on the black add until the warlock gets 5 stacks and dumps his burst into primordius).

So after the lust phase, ah and btw we lust approximately 2min30-3min in to the fight. Which feels way to late to get 5 players to 5 stacks. So I think there needs to be some optimization in getting stacks maybe through better lane organisation idk. Anyway after the lust phase do you have some sort of rotation who gets to 5 stacks first again?

Also is there any Situation where it is justified that a mutated player does living fluids?

thanks for your advice so far

[Vanden]

We tried that the other night but abandoned that strat because some ppl say it is more effective to get the other dps players mutated first. Did you only do it in progression or did you keep that strat? What would you say about healers? As far as I can tell in our tries they stole the occasional stack since healing is so intense for them.

Mutated tanks will be close to or just topping the boss damage due to the debuff they get from the black adds. If they aren't mutated they'll do a lot less, so definitely mutate them if you can without much issue. We used that mutate tank strat for our first kill but kind of forgot about it after that. As for healers we let our disc priest solo a lane and mutate herself whenever she could and that's it. The other two healers took (stole :P) what they could but without a DPS full time on the adds we couldn't give them a mutation and that wasn't a real issue once people started to move out of the pustules and into the caustic gas.

So after the lust phase, ah and btw we lust approximately 2min30-3min in to the fight. Which feels way to late to get 5 players to 5 stacks. So I think there needs to be some optimization in getting stacks maybe through better lane organisation idk. Anyway after the lust phase do you have some sort of rotation who gets to 5 stacks first again?

Yeah, 2-3 min seems pretty late. It must be a straggler or two holding it up right? If that's the case identify who can kill theirs the fastest and then send them over to whoever is slow. But yeah that is definitely late on lust. For lanes we figured out who could solo 2 rounds of bloods consistently and broke it up accordingly. Hunters/Warlocks/Rogues seem to do a good job of 2 lanes in our raid at least. After lust for the 2nd mutations it's essentially a free for all and then once a ranged or two have the second mutation they'll take over the black add so the previous ranged can get their second mutations.

Also is there any Situation where it is justified that a mutated player does living fluids?

Yeah, definitely. We tried it a couple of times but it really didn't feel right for us. A boomkin/destro lock can clean up a lot of little red adds, though.

[Deleted]

Uhm, there isnt really a tactic for primordius, its nothing but numbers really. We have afl lock putting dots on big add, and ele shaman dpsing, keeping the bigg add behind boss on top of small adds so they get cleaved. Every dps is mutating as soon as they can, waiting would be a waste. Bloodlust is when all have mutated.

"at the beginning everyone does adds until everyone has 4 stacks and after that everyone tries to get mutated at the same time more or less in order to get the full benifit of blood lust on primordius."
You are mutated for 2 mins, bloodlust is not 2 mins. And looking at your tries, there are some tries where bloodlust hits 3 mins after the pull, does that mean it takes you 3 min to mutate? Some ppl usually have their second mutation running already at this point.

About mutating tanks first, yes they will do big numbers, no its not gona help you as much as mutating dps first, since your tank will stay half of the time on the boss, not for the full 2 mins. Have tanks mutate after dps, since after the first switch they will 2 shot small adds, and mutate by themselves almost instantly.

"Paladin Tank could make this fight significantly easier with the off healing that he provides." I am paladin tank and my raid healing is 1% of total. I made the fight really easier!!!!

About the numbers on your logs : The dps is enough, but its not put where it should have been, healing is a bit low, but i not into pala raid healing in t15 withought 4 seconds shock. Since you are spread all the time might be optimal to take monk or druid if u have one.

[Deja Thoris]

"Paladin Tank could make this fight significantly easier with the off healing that he provides." I am paladin tank and my raid healing is 1% of total. I made the fight really easier!!!!

Is that a typo?

Also, I've not done the fight but I'd imagine from a self heals POV that a pala tank that's about to hit the boss would want to mutate since self heals are based on damage done to an extent?

[ternglim]

i'd suggest you follow this strat: http://www.twitch.tv/mangaza/b/415754324

[excip]

:O

I actually looked in to his VOD that he did on that night. This is their 5% wipe

http://www.twitch.tv/riggnarosbl/b/415358050?t=160m30s

So what I noticed is that they lust after the third add every single time and at that point every dps guy is transformed. So there must be some mistake in lane management or adds just not doing.

so I grabbed this picture from another thread and numbered it



so for DPS we have


Affl Warlock
Rogue
Balance Druid
Elemental Shaman
Shadow Priest
Mage
WW Monk
Enhancer Shaman

WW monk has brewmaster as second spec and our dk tank has a frost spec as second. That might be something to consider to switch it up.

What would be the best DPS line up and how would you distribute them using the numbers in the picture?

How should multidotters go about the start phase? they probably can dot a whole side which looks great on the damage meter but I have a feeling that a lot of that damage is wasted since they get through with like 50% health and stuff.

[Deleted]

I don't think assigning ppl will solve the fight for you. Any dps can solo 2 lanes alone, this is enough bloods to mutate by the 3rd blood. The thing is, the ppl you have assigned on the bigg add wont be able to kill as many adds as the ones that are not hitting it, so you would want to help them mutate.You had your mage and lock on the big add, which is not bad , but i would change the mage with the ele shaman, so your tank can keep the big add on top of small ones behind the boss and spam chain lightning, as it is in his single target rotation. something else that will help you kill bloods further in the fight is having your lock play destruction (if hes not experienced with it, dont have him switch, you prefer to have your raiders playing the spec they are most comfortable in during progression, even if the spec is not the most optimal one).

So you gona have like 3 ppl killing 2 lanes each, probably put your lock on2 lanes as well, with a disc priest to help him, and the ele shaman on 1. Have anyone that can mutate do it asap. Check on the ppl that are helping on the bigg adds, see how many they need, help them get their mutation.

What i think is important is that you do not delay any single mutation. Having ppl sit on 4 and mutate at the same time will cause you have every1s mutation to end at the same time then you will not mutate very fast again. Your dps will always mutate by the time the first's one mutation still has at least a minute, which means you will always have bloodlust that wont have non mutated dpsers.

If you are kiting the boss, there always gona be a good pile of adds behind him , and ele shaman, tank aoe, destro lock aoe, will be clearing them by not even focusing on them. This will also alow your healers to pick up buffs, which for sure is very imporant to have them save some mana, and be able to output the hps you need and lack for it.

[excip]

That was actually a really helpful post. I haven't really thought about it that way. I mean in terms of who can solo two lanes. Since there are ten lanes and five dps players it becomes fairly easy in terms of distribution and responsibilities. I imagine it could look this:



Warlock: 1+10
Mage: 2+3
Melee1: 4+5

Disc Priest is supporting the Melee

Ele: 6
Melee2: 7+8
Druid: 9

Since the Druid and the Ele only have one lane they will be doing horrors as well. Because they only have one lane they will get transformed slower. so melee2 should probably help them out regardless of his transformed status to get the stacks quicker.

[Deleted]

Hey excip,

here is our way how we killed Primo hc,

on the right side of the Room is our ShadowP with the Tank of the Big ADD's (he going for 3 ADD'S) get 4 mutation befor he will tound the Boss and the 5th after he have primo.
Our Moonkin or Hunter (depend who will be in the raid) have the job to kill the Big ADD's.
Our Mage and Warlock are on the left side of the room, and get mutations as fast as possible
Our rogue is on the left side and kill the line what is near to primordius and mutate as fast as possible too.

After Rogue/Warlock and Mage mutate(+PrimoTank), we going for BL/Hero and DPS Primo, @ this time our ShadowP and Moonkin/Hunter going for some stacks, the ShadowP dps only the little adds to get mutations for the Raid. After the 1st Tank swoap our 2nd Tank (who is tanking the big adds now) will go for 5 mutation, after this happens the Heals starts to going for mutation (for more healing output). Than if the mutations goes off from your Primo DD's mutate again as fast as possible this rotate 3 times (@ the 3rd mutation Hunter/Moonkin and ShadowP nuke the boss aswell.
Note the Tanks are going all time for 3 Big adds and can handle 2 of them, only need to dps from our hunter/moonkin on the 3rd one to have a good tankswitch.
Here our 1stkill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXoXaMGbX3w

maybe it wil lhelp a bit, feel free to ask (:

[Shiinji]

Use the same strat you use to kill on normal. Only thing different is the add that comes out the black one. DPS transform first then tanks healers do not need to get transformed til later on into the fight as dmg gets higher.