The Thing I Hate Most About Playing a Warlock

[Anonymous1038853]

Okay, since apparently folks are missing the point: I'm not saying warlocks are bottom of the barrel. I've stated the opposite of this numerous times thus far. What I'm saying is that they're not in a position which necessitates significant game-changing nerfs, and that it's annoying when people suppose that they're OP or comparatively top end.

Melodrama comes not from the class itself, but the annoyance of people like Tyrian telling me to spec DA for arena.

I've noticed it come up a lot with the recent announcement regarding Blizzard's intent to nerf Kil'Jaedan's cunning. People keep crying out that warlocks are FotM rerollers, that we're OP, and how all of these other classes don't get to move while casting. It bothers me, because warlocks aren't really that amazing. People forget that we are also the only DPS caster without a root of any kind, no instant cast burst pressure, and the only offensive mobility we have actively kills us when we use it. I've honestly heard people refer to burning rush as a viable mobility spell for arena PvP, and it's just astounding. These same people forget that demonic circle and demonic gateway are predominantly defensive utilities.

Out of the top ten 3v3 comps, eight of them have a hunter and/or a shadow priest. One warlock appears on that same list, depending on where you look. Other sources don't even have them listed. But does playing the class well garner any semblance of respect? Hardly. People still claim that chaos bolt is overtuned, despite the fact that it is always hard-casted, needs to be ramped up, has a ridiculous travel time, and hits for about 80k -- less than a full ferocious bite or eviscerate in most circumstances, and only slightly harder than a shatter ice lance without CDs. Then there's appeals to our self-healing. What they forget is that those percentage based heals also suffer from battle fatigue, and are hardly a drop in the bucket under most cases. Especially when compared to hybrid self-heals.

Hunters and priests are barely being touched, despite being the indisputably dominant classes in PvP right now (True FotM) and warlocks are getting hit extremely hard by this change. I consistently have people telling me how to play my own class, despite those individuals having absolutely no idea how warlocks work. Then there's the added point that warlocks are actually the least represented in 3v3 arena. It's exhausting enough playing a class that often feels undertuned, but when everyone presumes to know how we function, and proclaim that the frustration surrounding this upcoming nerf is just entitlement or QQ over the loss of being OP somehow? Well, that's just icing on a very unpleasant cake.

I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm honestly curious if anyone else experiences this kind of nonsense. It's so mind boggling.

[shanattah]

The thing I hate most about warlocks is rain of fire on single target.

[Grizelda]

I hate the class being balanced around one or two bugs that are obnoxious and awkward to add into the rotation, or some super insane trinket that we can't do without.

I hate being balanced around other classes QQ.

I hate Holinka just throwing out whatever asinine revamp he dreamed up last night and seeing if it sticks this week. I hate GC talking out of both side of his face.

LOL. I think I'm done. I hate more then I like.

[TyrianFC]

People forget that we are also the only DPS caster without a root of any kind,

And you seem to forget just how amazing warlocks are. This is what happens when you lose perspective on your own class. Of all my 90's the warlock is by far the most fun, great dps, funnest talents, lots of cool utility/tricks etc.

And yet someone will still say something stupid like '..... without a root of any kind'. Ok - but thats ignoring all the amazing stuff which, combined, puts other classes to shame?

[Anonymous1038853]

And you seem to forget just how amazing warlocks are. This is what happens when you lose perspective on your own class. Of all my 90's the warlock is by far the most fun, great dps, funnest talents, lots of cool utility/tricks etc.

Name some. Really.

[menulo]

warlocks are OP in pve thats why they are being nerfed.

and yea, i tried warlock in pvp. its my oldest pvp char and i love warlock pvp normaly.
but since MoP is complete crap, you just do NO damage. they need some heavy pvp damage buffs.
but since blizz is incapable is making anything pvp or pve exclusive the pvp/pve balance wil always suck.

[TyrianFC]

Name some. Really.

Name some what? Some great talents? Pretty much all of the talent tree. My favourite is the last row, but I love harvest life, burning rush (on demand sprint with no cd), sac pet, sweet passive like soul leech etc etc. Cool utility? Did you know warlocks have great self heal tools, cool and survivability tricks (demo pact , soul link, dark bargain etc ) in addition to the 'standard' damage reduction ones like unending resolve, can ot with a pet (opening up a whole world of content soloing), have some cool interactions and roles they can perform with pets (tank, cc, aoe dps etc), can quasi ot with a glyph - etc etc

Are you trying to tell me there is nothing cool about warlocks at the moment? There is so much more cool factor for them than other classes - and its the result of the developers going ALL OUT during the pandaria beta to improve the class. The cool factor of warlocks is highlighted bu the end green fire boss - and the tools they have available to handle and beat the encounter.

I love KJC too and hope to hell they keep it or keep the spirit of the talent - but trying to imply warlocks are horrible, dont have a cool set of tools already - makes you sound and look stupid. Really. This dumb shit about 'oh but they are the only ones without a root' is laughable. Just because you want to have a little cry about your perceived pvp state doesnt mean everyone here is going to accept these silly arguments.

Firstly the classes arent designed to be a mirror that reflects every other class homogonously, and second it's naively comparing in a vacuum. ok so you think they dont have X,. but what about the dozens of Y factors they have instead that are awesome.

[Anonymous1038853]

Name some what? Some great talents? Pretty much all of the talent tree. My favourite is the last row, but I love harvest life, burning rush (on demand sprint with no cd), sac pet, sweet passive like soul leech etc etc. Cool utility? Did you know warlocks have great self heal tools, cool and survivability tricks (demo pact , soul link, dark bargain etc ) in addition to the 'standard' damage reduction ones like unending resolve, can ot with a pet (opening up a whole world of content soloing), have some cool interactions and roles they can perform with pets (tank, cc, aoe dps etc), can quasi ot with a glyph - etc etc

Are you trying to tell me there is nothing cool about warlocks at the moment? There is so much more cool factor for them than other classes - and its the result of the developers going ALL OUT during the pandaria beta to improve the class. The cool factor of warlocks is highlighted bu the end green fire boss - and the tools they have available to handle and beat the encounter.

I love KJC too and hope to hell they keep it or keep the spirit of the talent - but trying to imply warlocks are horrible, dont have a cool set of tools already - makes you sound and look stupid. Really. This dumb shit about 'oh but they are the only ones without a root' is laughable. Just because you want to have a little cry about your perceived pvp state doesnt mean everyone here is going to accept these silly arguments.

Firstly the classes arent designed to be a mirror that reflects every other class homogonously, and second it's naively comparing in a vacuum. ok so you think they dont have X,. but what about the dozens of Y factors they have instead that are awesome.

Man, I'm so not surprised by this response. QED for my entire original post. "Pretty much all of the talent tree"? Really? You're going to say our entire talent tree is better than most other classes? Case in point that you don't know how warlocks work. Soul Link? Mortal Coil? Harvest Life? Half of our tree is completely worthless for PvP content, and any time we do have a talent that's ideal, it's nerfed into the ground (Grimoire of Sacrifice, Kil'jaeden's Cunning, Blood Fear). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying stuff like Blood Fear wasn't OP, but you're fooling yourself if you think all of our options are good. There's a reason almost every warlock specs pretty much the same way.

Great self heals? Affliction or demonology warlocks have two self-heals, both of which are affected by battle fatigue. How is a 2 minute CD HoT which restores like 15% of your health in anyway a great self-heal? That's like saying a glyphed Evocation is a great self heal. When all taken together, we might be able to reset a fight here or there. But it's really nothing compared to hybrids or rogues. Sure, we're not bottom of the barrel. Mages and hunters are below warlocks in that department, and hunters certainly aren't in a bad place right now.

Now, I'd like to point out that the ability is called Sacrificial Pact, and that there's no such thing as Demonic Pact anymore. While it's a a good utility, it also requires thought. It's entirely worthless if you're being pressured and don't have the health to spare. It's even worse if you have a pet, to be honest. But this is more on survivability, and not at all what I'm talking about with warlock imbalance.

Mentioning pet tanking and dark apotheosis makes me think you didn't read the original post at all. Warlocks don't have any cool pet interactions for PvP content. Most often, the pets are set to passive, and simply used for their spells; generally those which other classes have as baseline and don't need to babysit a pet for. To reiterate previous sentiments, there's a reason why Grimoire of Sacrifice is popular, and it's not because it's some super imba talent. Then you bring up the revamps in MoP like that was some kind of favoritism from Blizzard. In Cataclysm, warlocks were the least represented class in the game, by a comparatively significant margin. We were entirely broken, and people again still thought we were OP because we got carried to high ratings on the back of rogues, shamans, and OP PvE items. Blizzard didn't boost us, they fixed us. Finally, you bring up green fire as though it has any relevance in this line of discussion. Cosmetics are cosmetics.

There are plenty of things which are interesting about warlocks, but the fact remains that they are in no way outshining other classes. In almost every competitive PvP scenario, you can replace a warlock with a shadow priest and be better off for it. You continuously call me stupid, despite the fact that you don't understand the value of a root spell, and make arguments like "What about Dark Apotheosis?", "But green fire is over 9000 cool factor!", and "The entire talent tree is great!" thereby providing a perfect example for my original rant. As for comparing in a vacuum? I'm discussing warlock mobility as an X value, and just listed three different Y values. You're the one who fails to note how a root plays into the aforementioned state of abilities, then only brings up survivability mechanics like that's all that exists in this game.

So exhausted with this exact kind of nonsense.

[TyrianFC]

So basically, your melodramatic rant is implying the class is pretty much useless and useless. Ok... we get it. But I hope you dont expect anyone to believe you.

Warlocks are in a shining great state - as an overall class package - compared to all others right now. I think they're in the best shape, but whether they are Top or Top 3 etc is more subjective. That doesnt necessarily mean they are perfect or there is never room for improvement still. But dont come to the forums and expect people will blindly swallow and accept this kind of nonsense mess of a presentation ("my class is terrible and pretty much everything about it sux -qq") at face value.

[Anonymous1038853]

So basically, your melodramatic rant is implying the entire class is horrible and useless. We get it. We just disagree with you and think its downright laughable.

It's not quite such a hyperbolic strawman, I'm afraid. But it's interesting that you equivocate "Not overpowered, and it's annoying when ignorant people argue that we are. Undue nerfs are also really frustrating, but less so than the former." to "Our class sucks and there's no redeeming qualities!" Especially since I explicitly stated that warlocks do have interesting points and strengths. If anything is laughable, it's your false dichotomy and apparent inability to read what has been written.

Warlocks are in a shining great state - as an overall class package - compared to all others right now. I think they're in the best shape, but whether they are Top or Top 3 etc is more subjective.

"Warlocks are in a shining state compared to all others right now."
"Whether they're actually doing well is subjective."

Wait, what? So the data is subjective but your opinion is not? Now I'm questioning your honesty.

[justinmccray111]

Is OP serious?

He must not play his warlock much at all.

warlocks have ton of great spells at their disposal. Good peels, good utility. Good offensive and defensive spells. Good cc.

Why cares if we dont have a root? Why do we need it? We have plenty of CC and snares.

We have great burst (go try Demo).

[FurtyIRL]

To be perfectly honest you are being pretty melodramatic. No one can argue that warlock is the most rounded class in PvE and they're not awful in PvE. "No warlocks in top teams!" you say? What about the six or seven other classes who don't show up there? It's the nature of PvP and arena that top comps are fluid depending on the season, and if you're not one of the lucky few classes that are either overpowered or have incredible synergy then you need to suck it up. I agree with your points about chaos bolt in PvP, but if you're able to get out of being trained for a few seconds you really can burst someone down to nothing in seconds ... and if they dip below 20% it's over. Overall definitely a pretty large exaggeration with the class state but grass is always greener.

[TyrianFC]

"Warlocks are in a shining state compared to all others right now."
"Whether they're actually doing well is subjective."

Wait, what? So the data is subjective but your opinion is not? Now I'm questioning your honesty.

As the two posters above me implied - you are being melodramatic. Whilst being amusing, it's not helping your cause.

Despite quoting me and putting 'whether they're doing well is subjective' in quotation marks - I never actually said it. I said whether they are top or top 3.. That means whether you think warlocks are the best class in wow, or in.. the top 3. There are 11 classes in wow, so the comparison to someone being number 1 or number 3 isnt a benchmark for whether someone is doing 'well' or not. They both would be great and even enviable testament to the state of the class currently. If I had said top or bottom 2, however, then you'd finally have a point.

My personal opinion is warlocks are the best overall class - as a package - in wow at the moment.

[Anonymous1038853]

Okay, since apparently folks are missing the point: I'm not saying warlocks are bottom of the barrel. I've stated the opposite of this numerous times thus far. What I'm saying is that they're not in a position which necessitates significant game-changing nerfs, and that it's annoying when people suppose that they're OP or comparatively top end.

Melodrama comes not from the class itself, but the annoyance of people like Tyrian telling me to spec DA for competitive arena.

[Gohzerlock]

My personal opinion is warlocks are the best overall class - as a package - in wow at the moment.

um...... great in pve, complete utter garbage compared to other classes in arenas. Unless maybe you find a niche spot in 5s....

[Werst]

The thing I hate most about playing a lock is the bias the vast majority of the WoW community has against us that is irrational, outdated, and no different than the lamest type of racism (classism?).

Its hard to argue locks are not in a great place in pve at least until 5.4.
Its also pretty hard to argue that locks are not in a complete dump in pvp and will continue to be so in 5.4 based on latest data.

Pretty much we have a couple things we hang our hat on and are otherwise so junk in pvp that we cling by our fingertips based on gateway/bloodfear/etc type things. Since locks are good in pve devs are overly cautions about doing anything for pvp. They have a greater desire to make sure we can't possibly have something OP than they do to turn out a quality product in terms of fixing the class so its balances out in pve and comes up a lot in pve.

EG taking 10% passive DR away when lock raid survival is soul leech stacking to the lock's HP. Why do you think we live so well in raid and so poorly in pvp?
EG making KJC a spiritwalker's but at the same time giving free filler casts away when nearly everyone is far more mobile. Kills aff/dest, makes demo even more go to pve.

EG mages can have 4x instant autocrat pyros, shatter combos, etc but chaosbolt needed a 25% nerf vs players. Yet when our dots are blatantly weak you don't see them buffed vs players but put back in via pvp set bonus. Even IF CB hit too hard let it go instant at 25% nerfed value so at least destro can use its nuke. Its still too hard to use vs a team of similar MMR for how hard it hits. If you can't find a balance point where its worth the headache of casting then make it easier to use at this lower value. EG powershot? Just like you could help aff by making MG/DS uninterruptable like steady/cobra and that wouldn't touch pve but would massively help aff pvp.

[ZakAtack]

Some people will just never be happy. This place sounds like the Mage forum these days. The class loses an ability it's had for 3 patches and the class is pronounced dead. We have pretty great mitigation and defensive CDs, but people still whine for the days of all passive self heals and pure mitigation Soul Link. Why don't we just call it what it is. People keep whining that movement makes locks unique and that the class is only in an ok place anyways. We just want things made easier for us. KJC didn't make the class super dynamic or interesting, it just made things easier. Don't have to worry about minimizing movement at all, just keep channeling on and on while walking around with a pitiful 30% slow. Just like passive self heals and mitigation made life easier, now we have to (*gasp*) think about when to use our defensive CDs!

And I guess for most locks, easier = fun. But that doesn't mean it was balanced or part of design. I don't hold Blizzard innocent either though, it's ridiculously stupid that they let KJC linger like that for as long as they did when it was clearly unintended. And this backlash is what they get for it.

[Rife]

My favourite is the last row, but I love harvest life, burning rush (on demand sprint with no cd), sac pet, sweet passive like soul leech etc etc. Cool utility? Did you know warlocks have great self heal tools, cool and survivability tricks (demo pact , soul link, dark bargain etc ) in addition to the 'standard' damage reduction ones like unending resolve, can ot with a pet (opening up a whole world of content soloing), have some cool interactions and roles they can perform with pets (tank, cc, aoe dps etc), can quasi ot with a glyph - etc etc

I get the distinct impression that you're the kind of warlock that enjoys how the class plays rather than what it's objectively capable of.

It must be pretty nice to not worry about your classes potential to perform in a competitive environment, whether PvE or PvP.

Your post implies you don't play competitive PvE or PvP and you're happy with quirks like Glyph of Demon Hunting and Voidwalkers to make off-tanking possible. Those class idiosyncrasies are nice in their niche but are entirely useless in a proper PvE or PvP setting. They might be cool but they're also useless most of the time.

Many experienced and skilled Warlocks are offering input around here regarding possible changes and you're replying with the likes of "This dumb shit about 'oh but they are the only ones without a root' is laughable. Just because you want to have a little cry about your perceived pvp state doesnt mean everyone here is going to accept these silly arguments". Frankly, it's not helping or convincing anyone of much.

If you're going to make claims of warlocks having "great dps" and being "awesome" at PvP then you need to back that up with data. Similarly, if you're going to continue going from thread to thread saying that 5.4 warlocks will be fine then you need legitimate insight into why you think that will be the case. One of your recent posts posits that gear scaling in 5.4 will compensate for the huge loss of damage from the KJC change.

If your experience is limited to running 5 man heroics and call to arms BG's then you need to frame your speculation and insight to be suitable to that setting and say so. Such feedback is useful. But making sweeping judgements about effects in area's of play you have no experience in doesn't add anything to the discussion here.

EDIT:

My personal opinion is warlocks are the best overall class - as a package - in wow at the moment.

Here is an excellent example of what I mentioned above.

In which areas of play do you think Warlocks are the best overall class and why?
What makes you think that? Cool abilities? Comparative power over other classes? Ease/difficulty of play?

Are you saying they're excellent in BG's? Rated BG's? Arena? Raids? LFR?

[Deleted]

I hate the new lock revamp. Everything that made this class and my favourite spec affly is gone now, our gameplay is not that much different from spriest. big shields, on demand heals, lots of channeling, insta dots... wtf. Instant dots, how much braindead do we really have to go?

[Annoroth]

I get the impression that not everyone got the memo on the Warlock changes in MoP. I've been asked on numerous occasions (those requests have slowed down in 5.3) to both fear-bomb a group of players, as well as use my Death Coil. Then I get told (back when I was Destro) that I have too much CC.

It's quite the conundrum to be in.