Choice Constriction Within WoW

[Paraloser]

Does anyone else feel that since the new talent tree system (or lack thereof) that the game has lost its lust for most people? They dumbed down the game to basic moves and talents that are so very basic in nature. It does not allow for a full bloom of the game or character development. What say YOU!

[Statix]

I agree on some level. A lot of spells had to be removed, because it was just becomming way too much. The game has certainly been dumbed down. One talent each 15 levels is not enough, in my opinion. It could have atleast been one every 10 levels.

It just lost it's touch. It started during Cataclysm. I don't know what it is, but WoW is just different.

[Szarala]

There is nothing wrong with the tiered system in of itself.
To me the issue is that the talents themselves in many cases are poorly designed and balanced (against the competing talents in the same tier) and that it's too trivial to change talents, lacking any sense of investment.

[Crysis]

Imho the character progression is not what it used to be, some level 90 talents are completely useless (Warlocks come to mind) and others aren't any more significant than the abilities on lower levels. I say we need a system next to the talents and glyphs where we can put points into various passive bonuses (to improve our spells etc.) and the devs also need to come up with some really powerful abilities for the max level (possibly for level 95/100 in the next expansion) that will actually feel like STRONG and EPIC things. I mean .. for god sake, we only defeated the Aspect of Earth itself, I think our characters deserve more towards the higher levels.

[LilSaihah]

Yes and no.

I personally think the mistake was in balancing deeper talents to be more valuable than earlier talents, and cemented by cata's decision to force people to spend 31 points in one tree. If I wanted to dig even deeper, I might say that it was driven by the decision to give each 41-talent deep trees in TBC, as that shifted the number of points you'd spend in one tree to over 2/3rds. This has lead to the inevitable conclusion that tree choice is now just one choice.

Buttons do not need to be complicated to create a compelling game experience, and overcomplicating them can make a game utterly incomprehensible. Would Starcraft be a deep, meaningful game if Marines cost 47 minerals, have 3 active abilities with 2 random procs, distinct melee attacks and because they sink rather than float in the bathtub? Interplay gives the game meaningful depth. Can you realistically say that the old talent system had meaningful depth, when most of the time it was a math problem?

[vesseblah]

Old system forced you to put talents into either right way or the wrong way, there was no real choice between those two options. Now you can put some of the talents at least in the way you like without those being automatically wrong.

The amount of real genuine choice has increased significantly. Some classes/specs still don't have real choices, but most do.


You might have a real argument when it comes to leveling experience and the 'fun' of putting talents in like most games do. WoW developers at least were honest and scrapped the system since it didn't really work for character customization, only for making leveling more exciting.

[Paraloser]

I just feel that the Vanilla system of talents was better balanced and allowed a larger scale of character development instead of just bashing buttons on 4-5 main talents here and there. The game used to allow us to branch into various different areas of the talent system and have some fun with different specs. I feel that since they imposed this specialization forced choice, the game has lost its ability to be anything decent. They seemed to have been worried more about gathering new ppl rather than keeping the ones entertained properly. I remember parts of the older game system that were just awesome! I could poke around in different areas of talents after lvl 55 or 60 and really choose my talents based on my playing style. This does not seem to be taken into consideration anymore and it is so basic it kills me now.

[Zardi]

While I can't say I like this new talent system much, I'd say it's better than the Cataclysm implementation (which was basically same as Wrath's, but even more streamlined). At least now, you get to "choose"; but I'd still have preferred talent trees - just with a lot more flexibility and less enforced options. Think DKs in early Wrath, they could pick any combination of talents, and still be decent at their job (before they got nerfed and streamlined).

Another option I'd have liked would have been "wider" trees, with less power creep as you go down. In the end it wouldn't be much different to what we have in Mists, but at least you could keep the feeling of progressing as you level up; instead of having to wait 15 levels per talent point, and not always getting anything meaningful out of it.

[Paraloser]

Yes and no.

I personally think the mistake was in balancing deeper talents to be more valuable than earlier talents, and cemented by cata's decision to force people to spend 31 points in one tree. If I wanted to dig even deeper, I might say that it was driven by the decision to give each 41-talent deep trees in TBC, as that shifted the number of points you'd spend in one tree to over 2/3rds. This has lead to the inevitable conclusion that tree choice is now just one choice.

Buttons do not need to be complicated to create a compelling game experience, and overcomplicating them can make a game utterly incomprehensible. Would Starcraft be a deep, meaningful game if Marines cost 47 minerals, have 3 active abilities with 2 random procs, distinct melee attacks and because they sink rather than float in the bathtub? Interplay gives the game meaningful depth. Can you realistically say that the old talent system had meaningful depth, when most of the time it was a math problem?

Comparing the two is not even possible way different gaming systems.

[MoanaLisa]

I say that we don't really need two threads about talents. Please post in the one at the link:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...talents-period

Closing this one.