Could 5.4 really refresh wow and be the start of a new generation.

[Chickat]

Come 5.4 people who like to raid but dont have time for normal and think lfr is boring will have the mode for them and its flexible. There will never be a dead server again with virtual realms, and i expect proving grounds will teach people how to play leading to a more skilled player base. Siege looks good in early previews, and theres a good bit of content coming our way.

Yep, 5.4 is the start of a brand new wow.

opinions?

[Pejo]

I don't think so but it definitely has the ability to do so! The virtualized realms will be fantastic across the board so I think this will be a massive hit. I'd love to see Flex raiding be popular as this will help build the community back, especially if it is balanced like 10 mans in WotLK. I really like the idea of Proving Grounds but don't think the people that 'should' be using it will use it. For those interested in doing their very best, I think it will be a very low stress environment to get used to that role. This feature could be used for practicing to raids and offer a more difficult experience than LFR.

I'd love to see things turn around in 5.4 and onwards - they're definitely working hard towards it to make it work.

[Holtzmann]

Nah, it's not going to be a revolution. It'll be really a patch chock-full of useful features, but none of them actually change the core gameplay all that much. Let's wait and see how things develop in the PTR before making grand sweeping statements like that, shall we?

[Count Zero]

Nah, it's not going to be a revolution. It'll be really a patch chock-full of useful features, but none of them actually change the core gameplay all that much. Let's wait and see how things develop in the PTR before making grand sweeping statements like that, shall we?

At this point I don't think it would be particularly wise (and possibly not really possible) to fundamentally change the core gameplay. They have a winning formula. For any 8 year old game to have over 8 million subscribers, it's doing something (or some things) better than the other games out there -- particularly the free-to-play games that don't have as many users as WoW does.

Sure, I'd say Wrath and post-Wrath players probably vastly outnumber the pre-Wrath players at this point, but I think any major deviation from the formula would be a gamble -- risk alienating current playerbase to attract a new one, and trying to do so with an 8 year old game engine is going to really limit what is possible.

Why not just take 8 years of lessons learned and apply them to a brand new game ?

[Deleted]

5.4 is evolution, not revelution. I don't see any drastic changes to call it new generation.

[Deleted]

I think /flex is a got addition, but most of those who do lfr now will keep doing lfr because its easier to click a button and queue up then interact with other players to form a group. Besides that, lots of new players don't even now how real raiding feels like and have no clue of the social aspect that comes along with it.

[Holtzmann]

At this point I don't think it would be particularly wise (and possibly not really possible) to fundamentally change the core gameplay. They have a winning formula. For any 8 year old game to have over 8 million subscribers, it's doing something (or some things) better than the other games out there -- particularly the free-to-play games that don't have as many users as WoW does.

Sure, I'd say Wrath and post-Wrath players probably vastly outnumber the pre-Wrath players at this point, but I think any major deviation from the formula would be a gamble -- risk alienating current playerbase to attract a new one, and trying to do so with an 8 year old game engine is going to really limit what is possible.

Why not just take 8 years of lessons learned and apply them to a brand new game ?

I'm not saying the features need to be revolutionary. I'm saying there's no reason to believe what's coming in 5.4 is going to do all the things the OP said it would. They're good perks and great quality of life changes, but you don't revitalize a game on quality of life alone, specially when part of the game's issues come from the community's interactions with the game's core concepts.

[Aleksej89]

It has some amazing new features, but so far we know very little of 5.4.

So far i like it (virtual realms yes pls) but it is still a very young PTR patch.

[Wow]

Dead servers coming back to life and not in the crz bs way will change things a good amount for many.

[Dreyen]

Flexible raids is a great way to pug, and virtual raids will rejuvenate the lower pop raids... I do miss the days of wrath when my server was big and you could find pugs at every hour of the day for ICC.

I think blizzard is trying to get back to the basics of making your server a community with heroic scenarios, rather than just going "who cares about grouping with others, ill just queue alone"

[MoanaLisa]

I voted no but not really in a negative or QQ way. No one single patch is going to revive WoW as such. It's a very steep climb in any case since the MMO market generally is getting smaller. But I tend to believe that what Blizzard is doing now will extend the life of the game greatly and the accumulated effects of content for everyone of varying difficulties, faster patches, Virtual Realms (depending on how those work out) and the other kinds of changes that Blizzard is doing to encourage more social engagement in game will keep the game pretty healthy for a long time yet.

[Worgoblin]

5.4 definitely looks like a very good patch. Dunno if I'd say it's a new generation though.

[Smango]

Anything is better than what is it right now, theres really no reason to be in a guild... And the only way to have a successful guild is to already have one that's been started forever ago. Me and my cousin have started our own guild lvl 25.. and cannot find enough people to raid a 10 man raid.... This is not how I use to remember WoW... everyone just guild hops everywhere to the better guilds to get better benefits, which I can see there point in a way more people, more stuff. Which is why it's almost impossible to start your own guild.

This game has lost a big social aspect which made WoW amazing, you use to know everyone in your guild, to do runs you wanted to do with your guild. Now its just sit in SW/ORG queue up with all random people blow through dungeons. Use to you could queue up with people you could:

1. Eventually have in your guild, if you was recruiting.
But now you can't because it's someone from a different server.

2. Be sociable... now its like if you wipe in a dungeon everyone just leaves and says.. QQ QQ Crappy tank kthxbye. HEALER SUCKS.. QQ QQ requeue for healer with Ilvl 575 gear

Do guilds even merge anymore, team up? No this is gone.

I really think this patch could help out in a HUGE way, if it is done properly. I would love to actually meet people on WoW again, instead of playing a game with a bunch of drones pulling and AOEing everything down.

[DrSteveBrule]

We all know LFR and Flex raid are clever nerfs to normal modes in disguise.
Did nerfs ever revolutionize ANYTHING? No.
The game needs depth, the game needs a real sense of achievement otherwise you're playing an outdated game with Lore that has been tired from the Warcaft RTS games and clearly they're running out of steam.

[Noorri]

I doubt WoW will increase subs again except for the first 2-3 months of an expansion release. Patch 5.4 might make the subscriptions drain slower, but it won't change the game in such a fundemental way to attract players at the rate required to increase subs at this point.

[Worgoblin]

We all know LFR and Flex raid are clever nerfs to normal modes in disguise.

I have no idea what you're talking about. But I do love crazy conspiracy theories!

[Deleted]

Come 5.4 people who like to raid but dont have time for normal and think lfr is boring will have the mode for them and its flexible. There will never be a dead server again with virtual realms, and i expect proving grounds will teach people how to play leading to a more skilled player base. Siege looks good in early previews, and theres a good bit of content coming our way.

Yep, 5.4 is the start of a brand new wow.

opinions?

I think its a very interesting patch.

I really like the idea of Flex Raiding (not 100% how I would have implemented it but I understand why they did), I REALLY hope they do not tune up normal's even more than ToT has been because of this though.

I hope they implement the virtual servers well, I am on a heavy alliance server and really hope we get "merged" with a heavy horde server.

It looks like another amazing 13 boss raid tier.

We have had 5 raids, 3 tiers, 42 bosses (not including world bosses) in less time than ICC was out on its own.

So it depends what your asking.

Will it breath life into WoW, sure I can see it.

But will we go back to 12 million subs?

Not a prayer, that is never ever happening ever again (any game ever).

[LilSaihah]

Server merges are great to provide a lot of the servers which currently don't have critical mass with it, and will help stem the flow of subscription losses. On its own, though, it doesn't break the problem of the lack of a cohesive community, and the standing problems with high-population servers will remain and possibly be exacerbated. I think that to help create a consistent feeling of community, LFR and LFG should be restricted to the 'virtual server' rather than region-wide.

Flex raiding is a good feature, but I think it's being misapplied when it's given its own raid difficulty. It currently broadens the raider's palate too much; you can go to LFR for 100% casual, you can go 75%-casual with Flex mode, you can go 50%-casual with Normal, or you can go full-on in Heroic. I'm inclined to say that Flex in 5.4 is just going to be a field test for later deploying Flex raiding in LFR and Normal mode. If it's not, then they should.

They'll help to stop the losses, but they won't bring in a new golden age. If Blizzard uses them to leap into a volley of other great features, it's possible that they could push their numbers up again instead of down.

[Deleted]

Nah, it's not going to be a revolution. It'll be really a patch chock-full of useful features, but none of them actually change the core gameplay all that much. Let's wait and see how things develop in the PTR before making grand sweeping statements like that, shall we?

on the flip side, how about a little bit less pessimism & a bit more optimism.
i for one am looking forward to the changes & it will hopefully do wonders for the realm i'm on.

[Count Zero]

I'm not saying the features need to be revolutionary. I'm saying there's no reason to believe what's coming in 5.4 is going to do all the things the OP said it would. They're good perks and great quality of life changes, but you don't revitalize a game on quality of life alone, specially when part of the game's issues come from the community's interactions with the game's core concepts.

Yeah, I should have been more clear with my post -- I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said -- just adding another, related layer of discussion to the topic.