[Megathread] Dragon Age 3

[Deleted]

Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left, "Meh, i use my potions when i REALLY need them." - every rpg-player ever

[Deleted]

Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left, "Meh, i use my potions when i REALLY need them." - every rpg-player ever

I like how in DA2 enemy rogues will steal your potions when they backstab you, and drink them if you don't kill them fast enough, so it was kind of an incentive to like... use any you had or never ever carry any no matter what.

[zealo]

Having rogues steal your potions was such a terrible design decision, i hope that thing is not returning.

[Deleted]

Having rogues steal your potions was such a terrible design decision, i hope that thing is not returning.

I doubt it will, wouldn't fit well with the current model for potions and health regen, but I thought it worked nicely in DA2. Stopped you just stacking a bajillion potions and spamming them all day on nightmare.

[UnluckyAmateur]

Not sure I'll be playing this. Too many other big releases on the way like Destiny, Ringway of Cyclones and Trials of Ascension.

Pretty sure two of those were scams.

[Gallahadd]

Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left, "Meh, I use my potions when I REALLY need them." - every rpg-player ever

Aaaaand new siggy.

I do like that they go rid of the "Find the resource once then SPAM IT LIKE A MOFO" from DA2, while it was a good idea in theory I felt it fell a little flat in execution, I prefer hunting around to find the resources, then crafting with them.

[May90]

While Harrowmont might let everything be as it was, it also means that the dwarves don't have help in their fight against the darkspawn. The epilogue clearly stated that under Bhelen the dwarves can push the darkspawn back a bit so they can recapture some thaigs. I fail how to see that gaining more land is the bad option.

Well, Harrowmont doesn't cut all the ties with the outer world. For example, the Grey Wardens are still welcome in the kingdom, and they were pretty much their main help in the fight. I don't think recapturing a few thaigs is worth the mess which Bhelen is going to bring to Orzammar.

Where the dwarfs actually doing well sticking to their old ways? The impression i got out of the whole Orzammar story arc was that the dwarfs where slowly but surely crumbling sticking to their conservative and old ways in the story.

They might not be doing very well at the moment, but, well, they've survived so far for, what, hundreds years of battling the Darkspawn. While Bhelen would sooner make the dwarves fight each other instead of the Darkspawn.

This is the thing, he's obviously the more "evil" option since he's like, a nasty bastard. But ultimately, his choices are better for the dwarven people, as well as everyone else. Keeping things the way they are is exactly what got orzammar in the mess it is in at the moment. You can't say that murdering all the casteless is a "Good" action more than an "evil" action, so it's not like harrowmont is a saint, but the point I'm making is that you're damned either way. Either you put an evil, greedy bastard on the throne, which is bad, but in the process help save the dwarven people, which is good, or you put a "nicer guy" on the throne, which is good, but then you are damning the dwarves as a race. They will suffer greatly under harrowmont. The castless will be pushed even further down, no new territory is gained, and in general he's just an incompetent ruler. There is no good option. It's not a matter of perspective. They both suck.

I agree with "they both suck" part. But between two sucking leaders, I would definitely prefer an eternal traditionalist over a crazy madman.

Wasn't the point. Imo DA:O's fighting system was build around pausing the game and giving commands to each individual party member. Imo DA2 didn't have this feeling at all.

I fail to see how you can get through DA2 on Nightmare without pausing all the time. Hell, the monsters deal so much damage there that one Rogue's hit out of stealth can down your mage in the 3rd Act. It is not that in DA2 you don't need to pause, it is rather than you need to concentrate more on the imminent threats, while in DAO it was much more about general strategy and planning.

The difference is in DA:O, what choices you make affect the story after you beat the archdemon. Like who's in charge of Orz, are the werewolves still around or are they cured, where the mages saved or all killed off. In DA2, no matter what the mages die. The Qunari encounter was more of what I wanted. You could kill them all, you could kill only the Arishok, or you could turn over the book. The thing with Grace is another thing that I'm talking about. Every time I have to save her, I just would like to kill her instead. Not because I knew what would happen, but because it didn't make sense to let her live after she wants you to kill the templars. And even if you do what she says, she STILL ends up in the circle. WTF?

What's the point if this is just a few epilogue lines you can look up in the Internet? It doesn't affect your gameplay really.

That Video shows even more of the terrible UI, who has designed that? Looks like it was made for 640x480 Resolutions.

I agree. Awful game. Don't buy it.

end_sarcasm();

[Deleted]

Aaaaand new siggy.

I do like that they go rid of the "Find the resource once then SPAM IT LIKE A MOFO" from DA2, while it was a good idea in theory I felt it fell a little flat in execution, I prefer hunting around to find the resources, then crafting with them.

I think their mistake was to suggest it was basically crafting. If they had replaced the "crafting materials" you had to find with something else less craft-y, and just used a vendor window instead of a "crafting window", and phrased it more like... I dunno

"Hey hawke! I'm an up-and-coming merchant and want to help supply you with <potions/runes/poisons> along your adventures! my stock sucks right now but keep an eye out for <I dunno, fucking, mineral veins or something, precious metals to mine, whatever> and I'll organise teams of miners, dig the stuff up and sell it off and make a killing. In return, I'll use that gold and some of my merchant-y contacts to bring some difficult to find <potions/runes/poisons> into kirkwall and sell you them at cost!"


... then it would have been recieved much better. Hell, they could have even done it through varric. Be like "yeah i'm managing all my brothers merchant guild contacts blah blah blah".

Because like, fundamentally, there is no difference between the DA2 'crafting' system, and the series of "herbalist's tasks" quests from sol's shop in the gallows.

In those quests, you travel the world looking for rare ingredients. You bring them back to him. If you bring them all back, he ends up having better stock for you. It's no different to travelling the world lookign for rare "crafting materials" and bringing them back. If you bring enough back, you get better stock from the "crafting" stores/system. Everyone complained about the crafting, no one complains about quests that have been in DA2 and many other games similar to the herbalist's tasks" quest chain. It's just how you frame it.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, Harrowmont doesn't cut all the ties with the outer world. For example, the Grey Wardens are still welcome in the kingdom, and they were pretty much their main help in the fight. I don't think recapturing a few thaigs is worth the mess which Bhelen is going to bring to Orzammar.


They might not be doing very well at the moment, but, well, they've survived so far for, what, hundreds years of battling the Darkspawn. While Bhelen would sooner make the dwarves fight each other instead of the Darkspawn.


I agree with "they both suck" part. But between two sucking leaders, I would definitely prefer an eternal traditionalist over a crazy madman.

Really no. You've missed a looot from this.

Yes, the wardens are welcome, but they don't have much of a choice in that matter. Also the wardens are essentially just throwing more meat at the darkspawn for free, there is no reason the dwarves wouldn't let them in. Even so, it's mentioned repeatedly that harrowmont basically shuts off orz from the rest of the world, and the dwarves suffer for it.

And then you talk about bhelen leaving the dwarves in a mess and causing them to fight amongst themselves? It's quite the opposite. Bhelen cleans house with harrowmont supporters (but then so does harrowmont with bhelen supporters). The difference is that bhelen then turns his attention to killing darkspawn and reclaiming territory. Harrowmont uses his position to go to war with dust town and the castless (to the extent that he ends up killing them all and burning dust town to the ground, if you give him the anvil). Bhelen is better for the dwarves as a whole, than harrowmont. He's not the good guy, he's absolutley a madman and utterly evil, but he is DAMN good to his people.

[May90]

Really no. You've missed a looot from this.

Yes, the wardens are welcome, but they don't have much of a choice in that matter. Also the wardens are essentially just throwing more meat at the darkspawn for free, there is no reason the dwarves wouldn't let them in. Even so, it's mentioned repeatedly that harrowmont basically shuts off orz from the rest of the world, and the dwarves suffer for it.

And then you talk about bhelen leaving the dwarves in a mess and causing them to fight amongst themselves? It's quite the opposite. Bhelen cleans house with harrowmont supporters (but then so does harrowmont with bhelen supporters). The difference is that bhelen then turns his attention to killing darkspawn and reclaiming territory. Harrowmont uses his position to go to war with dust town and the castless (to the extent that he ends up killing them all and burning dust town to the ground, if you give him the anvil). Bhelen is better for the dwarves as a whole, than harrowmont. He's not the good guy, he's absolutley a madman and utterly evil, but he is DAMN good to his people.

Bhelen is like Hitler: warmongering bastard who can achieve a lot of success in terms of warfare, but after who's death the country is going to be in ruins. When Harrowmont dies, the new king will either be from his bloodline or from the bloodline of the previous king; at worst, it will again be a fight between two candidates. When Bhelen dies however, that thuggish bastard, you bet his thug friends will start fighting each other for the throne and Orzammar will be in a huge trouble.

[Deleted]

Bhelen is like Hitler: warmongering bastard who can achieve a lot of success in terms of warfare, but after who's death the country is going to be in ruins. When Harrowmont dies, the new king will either be from his bloodline or from the bloodline of the previous king; at worst, it will again be a fight between two candidates. When Bhelen dies however, that thuggish bastard, you bet his thug friends will start fighting each other for the throne and Orzammar will be in a huge trouble.

I believe it is stated somewhere that after harrowmont dies if he is made king, the assembly is in deadlock, and all the drama and backstabbing starts again.

What you've said re bhelen is total speculation, and plenty of harrowmont's friends are thugs too. This guy is no saint, he blackmails and lies and cheats his way to the top too.

And talking about after his death the country will be left in ruins, again, it's speculation. What we know is that harrowmont leaves his country in ruins even BEFORE his death, while bhelen makes it considerably stronger.

Dwarven politics are always a shitfest after the king dies, that's going to happen no matter who was king, but as mentioned earlier, harrowmont doesn't even need to die before the dwarves go to war with themselves. He fucks that up good and proper while he's still in power.

I'm not saying bhelen is a "better choice" than harrowmont. They are probably both as bad as each other, in different ways, and i don't think you can clearly say "X is the obvious good choice here", because there really isn't one. What you can't argue though is that bhelen brings more wealth, social equality, land and power to the dwarven people, while harrowmont reduces orzammar's wealth (reduces trade with surface) social equality (kill all the casteless!), land (destroy dust town! don't take back and lost thaigs!), and power (refuse to integrate with, and help the surface so that the surface refuses to help us! yay!).

The narrative is pretty clear cut, Bhelen is a good ruler, but an evil dude, harrowmont is an awful ruler, but maybe a better dude. You can speculate about what happens after their deaths all you like, but... well, if anything there would be LESS fighting over the throne if bhelen is king, and then dies. Remember harrowmont keeps the assembly in all scenarios. Assembly means political drama, backstabbings and so on. Bhelen dissolves it, and runs as a sole ruler (more like monarchies elsewhere, where there is likely a clear line of succession and thus no room for fighting) There just isn't a way to know because we aren't told.

[Kaelwryn]

From the wiki.
"If Bhelen becomes king, he rules as a reformist and works to strengthen Orzammar's connection with the surface world. He embraces military aid from Ferelden (if the Warden asked for this as a boon), reduces restrictions on trade with the surface and offers casteless greater rights and privileges in exchange for military service against the darkspawn. This policy allows Orzammar to reclaim lost territory and push the darkspawn line back past the Trenches, but angers the warrior and noble castes. After several attempts on his life, Bhelen dissolves the Assembly and rules alone. Opinion is divided as to whether he should be remembered as a tyrant or a progressive ruler determined to drag Orzammar into the modern world.

Should the Anvil of the Void be preserved as well, Bhelen works with Branka to produce more golems. While this allows the dwarves to reclaim relics from old thaigs, eventually Branka refuses to make golems for the king alone and Bhelen bans its use.
If Harrowmont becomes king, despite Bhelen's death, a rebellion borrowing his name rises against Harrowmont. Depending on whether or not the Warden preserved the Anvil, Harrowmont either fails to defeat the rebellion and dies of protracted illness or puts it down with the aid of the golems."

" If you choose to support Harrowmont, you will discover later in the epilogue that his reign was troubled. By sticking to the traditional dwarven ways, he further restricts rights from the lower castes while favoring the nobility, as well as further isolating Orzammar from the surface by restricting trade and refusing outside military assistance beyond equipment and herbal aid against the Darkspawn in the Deep Roads. In the following series of rebellions, it is revealed that Harrowmont falls ill, most likely due to poisoning, and dies.

If you choose to support Harrowmont and sided with Branka he uses the golems to put down Bhelen's rebellion and lives. After several riots in Dust Town, he uses the golems to practically reduce the district to rubble. Branka states that more "volunteers" are needed in order to create more golems. Harrowmont refuses, however, and Branka begins raiding the surface to capture unwilling humans and elves. This leads to a short war with Ferelden, forcing Orzammar to close its gates to the surface, thus isolating the dwarves more than ever."


So yeah, ultimately Bhelen is the better ruler. While he, as a person, is pretty fucking awful what he does for the dwarves is good. In a way its kind of like Hilter. While Hitler is an awful person, he did do good things for germany.

[May90]

Well, let me put it this way: Bhelen might be better short-term, but Harrowmont is better long-term, as with many dictators vs not dictators (Hitler did a lot of good to Germany until 1940 or so, but it was not so good from historical point of view). The same logic as you use defending Bhelen, I could say, "American Founding Fathers were bad". Indeed, queen made sure that the region had stability, safety (the strongest army in the world by the time), funding (again, it was part of the richest country in the world), land (Great Britain was unarguably the biggest country in the world, if you count colonies as well). And what Founding Father brought was a slaughter, lost lands, deaths, poverty and so on. Were they worse than queen though? History shows that not at all: Great Britain ultimately decayed into a number of independent states anyway, and the US proved to be the most successful of them (not to start any flaming war; UK is also an amazing country).

So is here. Harrowmont's rule might be troublesome at his time, but Bhelen's would eventually end up in a huge disaster. The guy is nuts not caring about anything but his fame and pocket. Such people can't be good long term, pretty much, no matter what they do.

[Adam Jensen]

I don't even care.

After learning what Bhelen did to his brother . . . fuck that guy. I just hated him from the start.

I mean they're both shitty politicians, but I pick Harrowmont every time because I just can't stand Bhelen.

[May90]

I don't even care.

After learning what Bhelen did to his brother . . . fuck that guy. I just hated him from the start.

I mean they're both shitty politicians, but I pick Harrowmont every time because I just can't stand Bhelen.

Me too. Haven't picked Bhelen a single time. His demeanor also pushed me off: Harrowmont appears polite and educated, why Bhelen speaks more like a common thug.

[zealo]

I believe it is stated somewhere that after harrowmont dies if he is made king, the assembly is in deadlock, and all the drama and backstabbing starts again.

What you've said re bhelen is total speculation, and plenty of harrowmont's friends are thugs too. This guy is no saint, he blackmails and lies and cheats his way to the top too.

And talking about after his death the country will be left in ruins, again, it's speculation. What we know is that harrowmont leaves his country in ruins even BEFORE his death, while bhelen makes it considerably stronger.

Dwarven politics are always a shitfest after the king dies, that's going to happen no matter who was king, but as mentioned earlier, harrowmont doesn't even need to die before the dwarves go to war with themselves. He fucks that up good and proper while he's still in power.

I'm not saying bhelen is a "better choice" than harrowmont. They are probably both as bad as each other, in different ways, and i don't think you can clearly say "X is the obvious good choice here", because there really isn't one. What you can't argue though is that bhelen brings more wealth, social equality, land and power to the dwarven people, while harrowmont reduces orzammar's wealth (reduces trade with surface) social equality (kill all the casteless!), land (destroy dust town! don't take back and lost thaigs!), and power (refuse to integrate with, and help the surface so that the surface refuses to help us! yay!).

The narrative is pretty clear cut, Bhelen is a good ruler, but an evil dude, harrowmont is an awful ruler, but maybe a better dude. You can speculate about what happens after their deaths all you like, but... well, if anything there would be LESS fighting over the throne if bhelen is king, and then dies. Remember harrowmont keeps the assembly in all scenarios. Assembly means political drama, backstabbings and so on. Bhelen dissolves it, and runs as a sole ruler (more like monarchies elsewhere, where there is likely a clear line of succession and thus no room for fighting) There just isn't a way to know because we aren't told.

If played as a dwarf commoner we also know bhelen has a son with the Wardens sister, with the assembly dissolved its likely he becomes the next king.

[Deleted]

Me too. Haven't picked Bhelen a single time. His demeanor also pushed me off: Harrowmont appears polite and educated, why Bhelen speaks more like a common thug.

That's because he is a common thug. He's a shitty person. He just works out better for the dwarves. The reason why germany suffered after hitler died was because it was being split down the middle and ruled by all sorts of new people, the people he was fighting, because he lost the fight.

This doesn't happen with bhelen. For one, if you lose the fight with the darkspawn, everyone dies. He's not going to war with anyone OTHER than the darkspawn.

I get that you don't like him, and his demeanor puts me off too, and thats his biggest flaw. He is a terrible, thuggish person, considerably worse to his political rivals than harrowmont. No question about that. But trying to suggest that that translates somehow to being "bad all round" or "bad in the long term, even if good in the short term" isn't supported by the facts. Not even with your real life comparisons. Most dictators are NOT good in the short term.

... And the one you have picked as most resembling him is... probably the worst choice you could have made.

Hitler is defined by his lack of interest in social equality. He is a bad guy not because he is a dictator, but because he invaded other innocent countries, killing innocent people in the process, and sent any "undesirables" off to camps. This is the POLAR opposite of bhelen. He is VERY pro social justice, cares about the disenfranchised and believes they have worth, gives them a chance which has never before been done. He doesn't really harm any innocents other than political rivals, just goes to war with the darkspawn, which if you are trying to compare to hitler's invasion of europe is a little off, unless you are suggesting the polish are darkspawn? Europe was attacked without provocation. THe darkspawn are bad dudes always, and they were already at war with orzammar. A war that the darkspawn started, if you will recall.

- - - Updated - - -

If played as a dwarf commoner we also know bhelen has a son with the Wardens sister, with the assembly dissolved its likely he becomes the next king.

Right, and if you're related to the warden, you've got good stock. So that's only good for future orzammar!

[Vizardlorde]

I didn't care for Talis, but definitely loved Sigrun again. I really enjoyed her personality, especially with Oghren in the group. Shale was the bees knees too, especially the voice. Merrill is a bit funny for me...so I loved her when I played DA2 originally, but in my last playthrough a month or 2 ago, I absolutely could not stand her.

Definitely looking forward to Cassandra though. I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about her looks because she looks pretty awesome.

I'm just grumpy cause I dont get to play with the hot elf as a male PC, but I'll get over it when i play the game.

[WarpedAcorn]

I'm just grumpy cause I dont get to play with the hot elf as a male PC, but I'll get over it when i play the game.

Don't fret. At some point there will be a mod. ~_^

[Kaelwryn]

<snip>

I just want to point out that I was the one who originally said that Bhelen is similar to Hitler. I mean that in the sense that he is a terrible person but he did do certain things that helped germany for the better. A very extreme example but my history is awful and that's the only person I could think of.

[Vizardlorde]

Don't fret. At some point there will be a mod. ~_^

Considering how mod friendly DA2 was I wouldn't get my hopes up.

- - - Updated - - -

I just want to point out that I was the one who originally said that Bhelen is similar to Hitler. I mean that in the sense that he is a terrible person but he did do certain things that helped germany for the better. A very extreme example but my history is awful and that's the only person I could think of.

If Hitler had been born ~2000 years earlier no one would give a crap(other than a paragraph or 2 in a history book) about him cause completely eradicating your enemy was one of the common outcomes of war back then.