1. #1

    Lei shen normal questions with log, trying to get the best of our raid time

    Hi guys, got a few questions for lei shen 10m normal, we're not really doing bleeding edge content but we got to it this week while super sprinting through durumu and others.Now we had a pretty tense night today due to how I generally do the advice and leading of the raid, and wanted to get a bit more feedback on our progress, since we seem to be very swingy on our transitions and I do feel something is going a bit wrong somewhere, but I can't be there to check it out since I'm tanking.

    Bear in mind we got under our belt only a few tries (less than 10) and yesterday we had it to 19% and failed to kill due to a botched strat we read that suggested 25 stacks taunts for tanks....which got us killed.Also not sure why my log got some people that weren't there recorded, I probably forgot to stop my logging before hearthstoning.

    About the current issues: we just have people dieing randomly in intermissions or in random occurances and while fatality is giving me hints our raiders are quite unsure on what they are doing wrong and they don't even want to believe the addons, generally we have movement issues in intermissions but I could just use as much advice as possible.

    roster is:

    fuyuki(me, I'm doing some pretty derpy things I can see on the log due to being on raidleading and "call everything they miss")
    arsh(pala tank, kinda newish)


    cristalios(priest disci)
    kilias (paladin

    Generally we split the 2 tanks in one place, one healer per group in the other 3 being something like: dk + lock + pala, pala + lock for the 2 man group, last group being priest hunter rogue.It's mostly done knowing the strengths of our guys and weaknesses in moving fights, yet we find often our priest dieing to static shock, our 2 man group doing fine with immunities, and our other group struggling the most.Then people love to die in the blue ground because dbm apparently doesn't warn them soon enough, and we generally die by little or big adds.

    We also setup 2 portals, one from last tank place group to the furthest away, and one random horizontal one, we disable chain lightning first, and if we get there, we try to do supercharge(our best try at 7 minutes we failed to stop dps soon enough and died by double stun since I thought we were safe not transitioning there... didn't call the stack on time <.<)

    What could we do to improve? Are our healers doing fine? do we use our cd properly to defend ourselves? We generally save cd's for static shocks in spread phase or for the latest phases.We also didn't use heroism since we found that we need that in p3 to be safer since we always had someone dieing before.

    The biggest issue is the static shock + bouncing bolt, it appears that mostly our priest is having huge issues since if he's alone with static shock he's generally dead there, and he's far away I can never see his cd, today we had a quite bad fight on our voice chat since people felt I was a bit too...oppressive on my remarks(I am not an official raidleader or anything but I happened to be the one with the most knowledge so they let me explain the last few bosses in ToT and thi last one).

    could use any help really...we also made a few videos but I don't know if they want me to publicly link them, I'll ask and see if I can...Holy paladin pov, will have to have the voice chat edit out since it's in italian and it would just be annoying if you don't understand it xD it was from our best try from yesterday though not today.

    Thanks for the help(also any targeted help at me fuyuki is nice!)

  2. #2
    I'd strongly recommend 2-healing this. First time I killed it on my shaman they asked me to go 3rd healer and I was bored out of my mind, there really isn't enough damage outgoing to have the need for 3 healers. The extra dps can easily help keeping conduits lower and have a shorter last phase.
    Also not sure why people insist on putting tanks seperately in intermissions. You're only putting them in 1 quadrant but even that means the other quadrants get more abilities for sure to deal with, since tanks can't get targeted. Splitting 3-3-2-2 works very well imo, with the groups of 3 having a healer and the groups of 2 consisting of a tank and a person that can solo soak static shock (rogue and hunter probably for your set-up). Both of your tanks can off-heal a little if need be (for monks, healing spheres are amazing here if you didn't think of those yet).

    I'm also fairly sure that the bouncing bolts never hit at same time as static shock do, so your priest should probably watch timers a bit better. Think the bolts impact first and after that you still got 3 seconds or so to move together, no? Disabling diffuse chain is nice yeah, if you struggle a bit with other abilities you can give those a shot. Last phase tanks can pretty much taunt on cooldown since the debuff only lasts 8 seconds anyway. No need to push them too high, they'll have plenty of vengeance anyway.

  3. #3
    Thanks for the help already!

    I don't think we can 2 heal this due to the fact tha right know, unless I'm horribly wrong, none of our healers have a viable dps offspec, I think maybe one paladin but I'd have to ask him if he wants to do it... I was actually even thinking of going 1-1-4-4 since both our tanks have rarely issues and we could just tank a couple of big adds and nuke them, 3-3-2-2 could be safer but we tried with 1 tank + 1 dps and it went almost worse than before, not sure what happened since I have no video or log of that couple tries. Usually our 3 man groups will just not work with the abilites, I am pretty used to hardcore raiding while most of our guild isn't so dealing with the intermissions is really hard, will try again with your suggestion, I won't go too much into detail but some configurations we just can't do due to people panicking or something, can't exactly talk about that don't want to cause a ruckus more than it was tonight.

    I was also thinking of disabling overcharge or even static shock, I understand that the adds are a pain but I just can't figure out what's killing most of our groups, general consense on voice chat was that static shock does too much damage and is "impossible to deal with" by quoting some of the more extreme guys in the raid...

    I'll check again on the timer of bolts + shock, I don't want to push too much on the raid since they already didn't like my approach to the fight, I tend to be a bit strict when I'm on charge of explanations so we had a couple of people rage-logging off and generally just people weren't pleased of my criticism(even when polite, although I had rage moments too)

    I'll definitely try mix and match the tanks and try to have people being more ready to move, I actually kinda like to try more variants of positions, to soak the first intermission, second one should go fairly easy if people stay focused, we just brick at our first with atleast 1 to 3 deaths due to static shock/not soaking the bolts/million chain adds...

  4. #4
    Seconding the 2-heal thing (if possible).

    I'd recommend this strat:
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Easy mode normal strat:

    Disable Diffusion Chain First
    This means no Chain and no adds in t2, so you can stack. You can level it up if your DPS is low or just take it to ~95, then move and move on each subsequent conduit below 95 if your DPS is high.

    Disable Overcharge Next
    If you level it, you will get doubles. Because you disable Diffusion Chain though, you can just stack in the center of your quadrant the majority of the time. You just have to move to soak Bolts, then restack for Overcharge/Static Shock.

    Run 4-4-1-1
    Each tank solos a quadrant. It's helpful if the quadrant you assign to one of the tanks is where you'll be starting after the transition so they just have to taunt the boss towards them rather than running around. Tank quadrants will only get Bouncing Bolts and if they get two Bolts, just soak one, pick up the add, and soak the other. A tank should have no problem holding an add or two for the phase and they may even kill it. During t2, go 4-4-2 where both tanks go to the same quadrant.

    Spread healers and DPS evenly between the other two quadrants; class comp doesn't really matter for those. Be spread during t1 so you don't chain Diffusion. During t1, make sure you're spread a bit so Diffusion doesn't chain, soak Bolts, stack for Static, stack for Overcharge. Watch the Diffusion cd timer; you will have to wait a few seconds before stacking for a few of the Statics/Overcharges. During t2, just stack in the center, soak Bolts, and restack.

    This strat doesn't depend on people having immunities for Static Shock because you'll always have 4 people to soak it for very little damage. It also gives you the flexibility to level Overcharge in p2 if you need to and easily handle it because you can just stack most of t2.
    Also, the title says you have logs, but I don't see a link and your guild isn't listed on WoL as far as I can tell.
    Last edited by Squirl; 2013-06-19 at 05:07 AM.

  5. #5
    Woops, was really tired yesterday forgot to link, I had made a dummy name since I didn't know back in the day in what guild I'd be


    this is the log, trying again to ask for the video but whatever, I like the strategies posted though, will definitely try as soon as we get there!

  6. #6
    Here is our strategy:

    It is a copy cat from a strategy that was posted on the us forums I think. It worked flawlessly for us aswell. We downed him on our first night of real attempts.

    Lei Shen is very simple. Everything he does is predictable if you get your timings right.

    We do not level a single orb statue.
    On the first round we are like: 96-76-75-20. We use specific boss ability timers to mark the platform switch. (see guide)
    On the second we are at 86-82-84 just by using the tank kick to switch platforms.

    Don't be afraid to pull the boss to the center before the teleport phase if you are missing some last percentages. This has another nice advantage. No badly timed specials and everyone has nearly the same distance to their platform.
    Last edited by zorker; 2013-06-19 at 02:56 PM.
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  7. #7
    Big things we did:

    -Went 3-3-2-2, with the 2 tanks on the conduit we overloaded first (the chain lightning). The other group of 2 has to have good solo soakers.

    -Key thing to remember: abilities do more damage based on the energy level of a conduit, even if it doesn't level. So we kept the North pillar (static shock) as low as possible (usually like 0-5 energy) before P1 transition. Like East to 90, South and West to 80+, 0-5 on North)

    -During transitions, we split the groups to maximize our ability to solo-soak Static shock. The groups were in charge of talking to each other, but the first time anybody got static shock, they were to solo soak it if possible. Looking at your list, I believe everybody but your Disc priest can take a solo soak of Static shock. If you get unlucky and someone gets targeted 2x, THEN you stack up.

    -remember that when Overload goes out, a chain lightning happens right afterwards. So dont stack for Overload until the Chain lightning hits.

    -For the 2nd transition, let Overload (south) be the one that levels up, assuming one will level since you have 5 dps. For the next transition, have a tank join your group of 2, and one of your groups of 3. You can now just stack up all the time (makes double overloads hurt less) and only spread to get balls...then restack.

  8. #8
    Others have offered various suggestions for the intermissions etc. One thing I wanted to mention though was the tank swaps in the final phase. Unlike another poster above said, you can't taunt every time taunt comes off cd or the boss will become taunt immune. I would suggest just taking as many stacks as you can handle and then calling out to taunt. This usually means swapping roughly every 30s I think; just use cds when stacks get high and not when you first taunt the boss.

    As far as conduits and intermissions go, we use a strat similar to the one squirl described, except we put both tanks together on the diffusion chain conduit and two people who can solo soak (one a healer since we 3 heal it) on another quadrant. We have a fair number of immunities though so people don't have to stack too often for static shock, and when they do they use things like disc priest barrier/rallying cry/demo banner (AMZ, devo aura, and various other things also work if you have them). Second transition we have the two tanks on a quadrant and two groups of 4. Everyone stays completely stacked except for soaking bolts, since at this point we still have to level up overcharge.

  9. #9
    Looking at the logs you have available, the first major problem seems to be adds. It's fairly important that you don't get extra Diffusion adds or any Bolt adds in non-tank quadrants.

    Everyone needs to watch timers and be 100% sure that no one is in range when Diffusion goes out. You should never get more than one. When you do get that one, stun it and kill it quickly. There's one tricky place to watch out for during the first transition: the second Diffusion comes out about 1s after the second Overcharge goes out, so stay spread til that Diffusion hits, then quickly stack inside the Overcharge.

    Soaking Bolts is also very important as those adds will truck a non-tank. The easiest way to ensure these all get soaked is for people to be verbal: "I've got the back one" or "I've got the left one". You will have Bolts go out during Static, but you'll have another ~3s after the Bolts land to stack and soak Static, so soak Bolts, then stack for Static.

    The next big problem seems to be people *attempting* to solo soak Static Shock and failing.

    With the 4-4-1-1 set up, you never ever have to solo soak. You can stack with 4 people for every single one and no one will ever be in danger of dying. You can even plan raid CDs for these (AMZ, Devo, Barrier, Spirit Shell, etc.) but it's not necessary with 4 soakers. You can still solo soak, but the default should be to stack unless the person with it calls they can immune it (CoS, Deter, Bubble, AMS). If people consistently mess this up, you can just stack and soak every single time regardless of immunities available.

    Lastly, you have some deaths to things people shouldn't die to. Your DK pulled threat, your hpally ate a Lightning Whip, and your prot pally ate an Overcharge without a cooldown and sat the stun for another two unmitigated melee swings (it's fine for tanks to eat this, but they need a cooldown and the stun should be dispelled immediately).

  10. #10
    If one of the tanks got a dps spec I would strongly suggest 1 tanking the fight, it just becomes so much easier this way.

    I have only once used two tanks on Lei-Shen, and that was on my alt in a pug, and that was just horrible. Tanking was a nightmare, so much smoother with 1 tank, after that raid I never want to 2 tank it again. It took us around 8 pulls to kill it then, and a lot of the wipes was because of the duo tanking.
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  11. #11
    I came on here and read lots of the strats/advice when we first started progressing. We originally tried 4/4/1/1, but it actually made things harder, since the 2 quadrants get everything and sometimes 1 quad will get 2 static shocks, and you are almost guaranteed an add or two coming out of the transition when a tank (or both) get 2 bouncing bolts. We switched to 3/3/2/2 much like you are doing it and it went much smoother. The key is (and you may need to call these things out) is to be stacked/spread at the right times. The first transition is the hardest if you disable the Diffusion Chain the 1st time (it makes the 2nd really simple).

    The Intermission looks like this:
    [00:22:48.669] Lei Shen casts Diffusion Chain
    [00:22:48.824] Lei Shen casts Overcharged
    Bolts Launch
    [00:23:01.667] Lei Shen casts Static Shock
    [00:23:02.486] Lei Shen Bouncing Bolt [Landing]
    [00:23:12.166] Lei Shen casts Overcharged
    [00:23:13.775] Lei Shen casts Diffusion Chain
    Bolts Launch
    [00:23:21.829] Lei Shen casts Static Shock
    [00:23:26.696] Lei Shen Bouncing Bolt [Landing]

    So, your job is to orchestrate this until your raiders have it down, like this:
    Remind your raiders to stay spread out when the intermission starts
    Lei Shen casts Diffusion Chain (Diffusion Chain happens instantly)
    Lei Shen casts Overcharged (Overcharge has 6 seconds)
    Once Diffusion Chain goes off, call for people to stack to avoid the stun

    Next is the first Bouncing Bolt/Static Shock combo: Bolts 1st
    Bouncing Bolts Launch
    Lei Shen casts Static Shock
    Bouncing Bolts Land
    Static Shock goes off ~2-3 seconds later
    Once you soak the bolts, Collapse to soak Static Shock (If someone is going to Immunity, they should call it out)

    Next is Overcharge/Diffusion Chain, call for everyone to spread
    Lei Shen casts Overcharged (6 second delay)
    Lei Shen casts Diffusion Chain (Instant)
    As soon as Diffusion Chain goes off everyone stacks on the Overcharged person

    Lastly is the 2nd Static Shock Bouncing Bolt combo
    Bouncing Bolts Launch
    Lei Shen casts Static Shock at the same time
    Bouncing Bolts Land
    Static Shock goes off at the same time the Bolts land (this is the tricky one, use immunities here if available if not make sure 2 people are soaking the bolt the person with Static shock is on)
    Transition is over

    Once you master this dance, the transitions will become much easier, since you won't have extra adds and the damage will be split properly. The second transition will not have the Diffusion chain, so everyone can simply stack on the circle in their quad, only spreading for Bouncing Bolts.

    Good luck!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorfion View Post
    taunt comes off cd or the boss will become taunt immune
    That is not true. It can be the case if you got a hunter with pet taunt on that will trigger the inner 3sec taunt immunity timer. But in no way is the boss immune to taunt every 10 seconds.
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