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  1. #21
    some like wotlk version SS while some like the cata version, but as a prot pally, they could have both.

    give paladin a last stand on use instead of passive
    sounds good too.

  2. #22
    I haven't raided really since 5.1 but I LOVED targetting the tank or my PvP partner with Sacred Shield. The only benefit for Ret is the passive nature, so really, the best thing about it is when I'm CCed in PvP I'm not automatically dead if I get stunned and bursted down (They'll have to kill 30% more)

  3. #23
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    PvE Ret, and kind of like it. Given the amount of haste we'll likely have during the final tier, and the 4 set putting free Divine Storms on our rotation, we probably won't have many GCDs free to use the current SS.

  4. #24
    Shitty for PVE, and 2 minute ICD is lolable for PVP. Very few people would take it in that form.

  5. #25
    Although in this version SS works in a way of a passive oh-sh..-button, this is definitely a major nerf to the (sort of) active mitigation of a prot pally. 2 minutes is quite a long time, think about all the damage that could have been absorbed during this CD and how much healing would be necessary to compensate for that. For tanks it is always better to avoid damage in any way than counter-heal it.
    For holy this isn't desirable as well. EF gives much more flexibility than a passive addition to beacon with a "I hope the tank drops below 30%, so that my one big shield will ever pop up"-gimmick. No sane healer wants that to happen, I would freak most healer out to see the tank dropping that low.
    The only useful scenario for this change is for PvP rets. In PvE it should be useless, or there is something entirely wrong if this is "used" often. And even as a PvP ret I would more likely go with SH, because it leeds to an instant heal and a sort of lay on hands for any arena partners.

    It might be nice to get such a functionality on top of all three talents of the related tier. But I personally like all three talents in their current state. They are all useful in certain situation and they are quite flexible. In addition they are not as mindless as many other alternatives.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Homsel View Post
    Although in this version SS works in a way of a passive oh-sh..-button, this is definitely a major nerf to the (sort of) active mitigation of a prot pally. 2 minutes is quite a long time, think about all the damage that could have been absorbed during this CD and how much healing would be necessary to compensate for that. For tanks it is always better to avoid damage in any way than counter-heal it.
    For holy this isn't desirable as well. EF gives much more flexibility than a passive addition to beacon with a "I hope the tank drops below 30%, so that my one big shield will ever pop up"-gimmick. No sane healer wants that to happen, I would freak most healer out to see the tank dropping that low.
    The only useful scenario for this change is for PvP rets. In PvE it should be useless, or there is something entirely wrong if this is "used" often. And even as a PvP ret I would more likely go with SH, because it leeds to an instant heal and a sort of lay on hands for any arena partners.

    It might be nice to get such a functionality on top of all three talents of the related tier. But I personally like all three talents in their current state. They are all useful in certain situation and they are quite flexible. In addition they are not as mindless as many other alternatives.
    Read all the patch notes.

    SS in its current form is going to be baseline for prot. This new SS is just a bonus.

  7. #27
    Deleted
    In it's current state, this is a huge buff to prot pallies - giving them an additional passive major 2 min cd.
    I can see them nerfing the "old" sacred shield spell to scale less with vengence and/or haste to compensate tbh.

  8. #28
    it would sound to me that if you take the Sacred Shield talent, it would replace the new baseline Sacred Shied... making each one fight dependent

  9. #29
    As ret im not very happy with it, but then again, i wouldnt replace SH for anything in the world. That shit saves me every match.

  10. #30
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangstagore View Post
    it would sound to me that if you take the Sacred Shield talent, it would replace the new baseline Sacred Shied... making each one fight dependent
    this may be so, but if it was i cant see people replacing a 120k+ absorb shield (at least) every 4 secs with a 250k absorb shield once every 2 mins. Madness imo.

    It would make much more sense for prot to always take EF - the potential for a large EF hot in conjuction with the large absorb-over-time from SS means that healers can just ignore us even more then they already do.

    Ofc im still expecting a significant "old" ss nerf.
    Last edited by mmocf6305105ff; 2013-06-20 at 08:38 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Shitty for PVE, and 2 minute ICD is lolable for PVP. Very few people would take it in that form.
    What else would you take?

    A lot of people are forgetting that it's Eternal Flame's initial heal, not ticks, that's gutted to a level below what it would be at without the talent. In situations where the initial heal is far more valuable than the ticks (read: PvP and many PvE scenarios also), you're taking a trap by taking the talent.

    Taking that talents actually leaves you worse off than just not taking any fucking talent at all.

  12. #32
    absolutly, couldnt agree more

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    It would make much more sense for prot to always take EF - the potential for a large EF hot in conjuction with the large absorb-over-time from SS means that healers can just ignore us even more then they already do.
    This would make sense only if your AP is high to the point where your WoG is overhealing (which in some scenarios, it could be), otherwise, it's actually a negative benefit taking EF. You gain some extra ticks but lose a significant amount of burst healing to protect yourself from spike damage.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    What else would you take?

    A lot of people are forgetting that it's Eternal Flame's initial heal, not ticks, that's gutted to a level below what it would be at without the talent. In situations where the initial heal is far more valuable than the ticks (read: PvP and many PvE scenarios also), you're taking a trap by taking the talent.

    Taking that talents actually leaves you worse off than just not taking any fucking talent at all.
    Selfless Healer is the only choice in PVE and PVP for Ret if that version of Sacred Shield, as it is, goes through. If they buff it by lowering the ICD, it'll only really be good for PVP still but competes with Selfless Healer so.. yeah. Can't see this change sticking.

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    This would make sense only if your AP is high to the point where your WoG is overhealing (which in some scenarios, it could be), otherwise, it's actually a negative benefit taking EF. You gain some extra ticks but lose a significant amount of burst healing to protect yourself from spike damage.
    My comment was in context that the 2 min passive SS would replace our current SS spell if chosen on that tier as per Ganstagore's comment.

    Well if the choice on that tier was to have selfless healer (meh), EF (better but still meh) or to replace SS with the 2 min passive version (situational but likely meh) i know which i'd normally take - EF. Then again i doubt id actually cast EF often if at all as ShotR uptime would still be better use of resources.

  16. #36
    sorry i just realized that ontop of SS being baseline for prot, they changed its name to Holy Shield, meaning the new SS talent will not replace it

  17. #37
    Ret PVP here. I liked the old mechanic, and I'm pleased that it's back. Imo, put it baseline with 1 min icd for Ret. If not baseline, 1 min icd is necessary to make it compete with SH from an RBG pov, that's my opinion.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangstagore View Post
    sorry i just realized that ontop of SS being baseline for prot, they changed its name to Holy Shield, meaning the new SS talent will not replace it
    In that case it is a moo point. Take the new 2 min SS in that tier - not sure there is a real choice. again.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    My comment was in context that the 2 min passive SS would replace our current SS spell if chosen on that tier as per Ganstagore's comment.

    Well if the choice on that tier was to have selfless healer (meh), EF (better but still meh) or to replace SS with the 2 min passive version (situational but likely meh) i know which i'd normally take - EF. Then again i doubt id actually cast EF often if at all as ShotR uptime would still be better use of resources.
    1) That's not the case. (as others pointed and you realized, it's not a replace this with that).

    2) By taking EF you are replacing an ability - Word of Glory - with a shitty version that only does 70% of the healing but has ticks. "Situationally" if your AP is so high that your heal is all overheal, well, go for it, but otherwise you're doing yourself a disfavor over just taking nothing at all in that shitty tier.

    (I understand perhaps it may still be an HPS gain as a tank, but we are "looking past the meters" (remember, ghostcrawler?) and realizing that as a tank, mitigating spike damage is much more important than some mostly overhealing, tank-healer-sniping ticks.)


    Right now in reality, Holy is the only class that's looking at some shitty Hobson's choice where you can take 1 of 2 shit tier talents (that basically amount to taking nothing), or take a 3rd talent that makes your ability "maybe" better, and likely (in many situations) simply a trap.

    New record even better than the old mage 90 talents: I don't think there's a single fucking talent in game right now that actually takes an ability that you currently have and has the potential to make it worse. Glyphs? Perhaps. Talents? None, until now.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-06-20 at 08:59 AM.

  20. #40
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    1) That's not the case.

    2) By taking EF you are replacing an ability - Word of Glory - with a shitty version that only does 70% of the healing but has ticks. "Situationally" if your AP is so high that your heal is all overheal, well, go for it, but otherwise you're doing yourself a disfavor over just taking nothing at all in that shitty tier.
    1) good - was just a thought that it may be.

    2) if 1) was the case, then agree EF would be bad on second read - didnt see the burst heal element get nerfed.

    Still. What choice does Prot have in that tier now apart from the "new" SS ability (is it now called Holy Shield?)

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