Riposte - some early thoughts

[Trubo]

You seem mad, are you mad. Typing in bold, underline and italics would make it seem so, instead of being a raging teenager you can easily say "It's been changed to work off of rating and not percentages" or "I said rating in my previous post, not percentage"

Was responding to someones post, and saw yours above mine. No need to get your panties in a twist.

Simply wanted to draw attention to those words as it appears people don't understand the difference, not like it'll matter because once we reach page 5 no one will see that post.

[XDurionX]

To me this seems like a temporary makeshift solution. Prot Warrys not profiting from passive bonusses agility tanks have has been an issue since bc, but it was worst during wrath imho. They could´ve just buffed integral skills of our rotation like shield slam or revenge, or just make them more sensible to upscaling gear. Dont expect this to last long, there are easier and better ways to bring prot dops in line with other tanks.

[Mefistophelis]

Riposte is a new passive ability learned at level 76. When the Warrior dodges or parries any attack, they gain 50% of their Parry and Dodge as an additional bonus to Critical Strike for 20 seconds.

This sounds to me like percentage is used ! As in your parry is "XX%" and your dodge is "XX%" ... official notes say nothing about rating !

[Ashenia]

Maybe it doesn't by PTR does, it's ratings. You can transfer your char and test it yourself and buff you gain says "... Critical Strike by xxx rating". To get their 30% I had to regem fully into crit with crit meta plus trinkets, so I hope he didn't meant full T16 HC gear (hitting around 150-170k Slams with almost none veng). I know it's only PTR first stage..

[Calamari]

Did some testing on the PTR, Riposte works only with Parry and Dodge -Rating-, it completely ignores your base dodge and parry from strength. Tested this by wearing full dps gear with 0 parry/dodge rating, the Riposte buff gave me 0 crit. Equipping one piece with dodge and parry, gave me exactly half of that 1 items rating's as crit, but no more. Kind of a let down.

Edit: Beaten to it by Ysearia.

[suprep]

I have a feeling they actually meant it to be the % rather than rating, think about it. A decently geared tank has around 40% avoidance (or more) which will be 20% critical strike percentage, add in 5% base critical strike and 5% raid which makes up this magical 30%. PTR seems buggy, vengeance wasn't working and neither was the new Ultimatum change or Thunder Clap change.

Warriors going for full crit and maximizing dodge/parry will obviously hit 40% or higher I'd assume, if it were to be actually rating (like it is now on PTR itself, which could be a bug as the notes don't mention rating or percentage) then there's no way we can reach 30% without actually going FULL crit gems and reforges after obtaining the hit and exp cap.

[Deleted]

Parry and dodge rating conversion to crit multiplier is unmitigated. You get the full rating converted and then halfed.

But seriously. GC talked about 30% crit for tanks that they have in mind. We have 5% base. We get 5% from INT buff etc.

So basically we need the missing 20%. 600 crit rating is 1% crit. So 12.000 dodge+parry rating is 20%. Since it gets halfed we need 24.000 dodge/parry rating combined to do it.

We still want our 19.000 mastery though...don't we?

So the final gear we should look at should have 43.000 rating only for avoidance/mitigation. On top we need 2550 hit and 5100 expertise.

Interesting. We need around 50.000 rating to pull that off.

Lets play a bit more.

We got 8 armor slots, 1 wpn, 1 shield, 2 trinkets, 2 rings, 1 ammy, 1 cloak
= 16 items with rating on it.

Now if we divide 50.000 by 16 slots we get a final rating needed per item of 3125. WoW...that is alot of rating. Basically that is the ilvl 600+ cloak.

[quiks]

Maybe it doesn't by PTR does, it's ratings. You can transfer your char and test it yourself and buff you gain says "... Critical Strike by xxx rating". To get their 30% I had to regem fully into crit with crit meta plus trinkets, so I hope he didn't meant full T16 HC gear (hitting around 150-170k Slams with almost none veng). I know it's only PTR first stage..

that's unfortunate. here I was thinking about the DPs implications with die by the sword every 2 mins and how annoying it would be on progression with multiple warriors.

[Deleted]

@Zorker

Don't forget that when he tweeted that, he was talking about ultimatum. I don't think he's expecting a raid tank to reach 30% crit by going full mastery, leaving dodge/parry as an afterthought, and not gearing a single point of crit, just letting riposte do it's work. Numbers are on the air, but if we were to expect 30% ignoring crit and going full mastery... It would probably be too good. Riposte is there because dodge/parry are about to be obsolete stats and we were expected to take them this time (they have been the whole expansion, but since we could kept stacking mastery...). Before this started, gearing for them on the next patch looked fairly bad. Now they are more or less a valid alternative.

More or less. If the 2pc heal can crit (it can), why would spend tons of stats on dodge and parry, when swings are hitting for 0.22 to 0.04? To have a few %s of dodging the few seconds I have Sblock down?

[Deleted]

Parry and dodge rating conversion to crit multiplier is unmitigated. You get the full rating converted and then halfed.

But seriously. GC talked about 30% crit for tanks that they have in mind. We have 5% base. We get 5% from INT buff etc.

So basically we need the missing 20%. 600 crit rating is 1% crit. So 12.000 dodge+parry rating is 20%. Since it gets halfed we need 24.000 dodge/parry rating combined to do it.

We still want our 19.000 mastery though...don't we?

So the final gear we should look at should have 43.000 rating only for avoidance/mitigation. On top we need 2550 hit and 5100 expertise.

Interesting. We need around 50.000 rating to pull that off.

Lets play a bit more.

We got 8 armor slots, 1 wpn, 1 shield, 2 trinkets, 2 rings, 1 ammy, 1 cloak
= 16 items with rating on it.

Now if we divide 50.000 by 16 slots we get a final rating needed per item of 3125. WoW...that is alot of rating. Basically that is the ilvl 600+ cloak.

Basically, they need to change that 50% to 80% or more if tanks are suposed to reach more or less to 30% crit in raids.

I don't see the buff using actually the % of your parry and dodge as crit. I don't know warriors, but DK with the Dancing Rune Blade get 20% more parry for about 12 seconds, which would turn to 10% more crit for them during those 12 secs.

[suprep]

I decided to go FULL critical strike regemming on PTR on my warrior, so here's what I got using Crafty Vermilion Onyx for red, Smooth Sun's Radiance for yellow and Piercing Wild Jade for blue (Using DPS Metagem).



First one is with riposte, second one is without.

No stamina trinkets, everything to hit 7.5% -> 15% expertise -> crit -> dodge/parry.

Edit: Note raid buffed with 5% crit it'll be over 40% so you can imagine if it was actually to be % rather than rating I'd be well over 50%.

[Trubo]

that's unfortunate. here I was thinking about the DPs implications with die by the sword every 2 mins and how annoying it would be on progression with multiple warriors.

What implications? Arms and Fury do not get Riposte. Protection doesn't have Die By The Sword.

snip.

Any chance you can post your Defensive stats (e.g. Dodge and Parry % and ratings)? Can't find you on US or EU bnet for some reason just to see what you might have on live.

[Alonzo33]

I decided to go FULL critical strike regemming on PTR on my warrior, so here's what I got using Crafty Vermilion Onyx for red, Smooth Sun's Radiance for yellow and Piercing Wild Jade for blue (Using DPS Metagem).



First one is with riposte, second one is without.

No stamina trinkets, everything to hit 7.5% -> 15% expertise -> crit -> dodge/parry.

Edit: Note raid buffed with 5% crit it'll be over 40% so you can imagine if it was actually to be % rather than rating I'd be well over 50%.

why to go crit? i dont think that will benefit us as a tanks other than more dps .
i mean going crit will hurt survivbility much .

[suprep]

Just to test how often stuff was proccing and the rage gained from SS/Dev, armory is Suprea @ Zenedar

[Valech]

I´d really be interested in your findings. Is there something that prevents proccing enrage for several times in a row like with critical blocking?

---------- Post added 2013-06-23 at 08:14 PM ----------

why to go crit? i dont think that will benefit us as a tanks other than more dps .
i mean going crit will hurt survivbility much .

Does it? Currently we profit the most from hit/exp hardcaps, which suprep let as they are. He just exchanged crit and mastery, for nobody gems pary or dodge anyway. I think it might increase our survivability because we only lose critical blockchance and gain more rage for shieldbarrier. In theory.

[Deleted]

I´d really be interested in your findings. Is there something that prevents proccing enrage for several times in a row like with critical blocking?

In the last build you could proc it in back to back GCDs, so it doesn't seem to have an ICD.

[suprep]

It doesn't seem to have an ICD yeah, however PTR is slightly buggy since the changes they made aren't in (except for Riposte) so HS from Ultimatum isn't proccing on crit ss and itself isn't critting, etc.

I lose a chunk of stamina yeah but I didn't lose much dodge or parry, I still had around 41% avoidance on PTR even with reforging everything to crit so the loss is minimal.

[aGit]

on live, self buffed @546ilvl riposte would give me roughly 11% extra crit. This doesn't really sound like a whole lot to me.

[Gliff]

If GC said the heroic strike change is a buff because tanks should have 30%+ crit then you would have to assume that Riposte will be based on percent rather then rating. We just need to keep pounding it into the Blues that if it is based on rating then it is not near enough.

The fact that they took the ICD off the enrage from crit/crit block is a huge change.

[Raugnaut]

For stat wieghting, all this will do is make dodge/parry more valueable compared to now, since 50% of each is given as crit rating. Of course, as stated previously, this, combined with the enrage changes, will allow us to generate more rage then now, which translates to more barriers then now.