Wrathion - A Villain?

[Tyrannica]

Wrathion is neutral evil, if you know the old D&D alignments. He acts like a rogue(more like a godfather) and manipulates people, assassinate people too if they are in the way of his goal. I remember the rogue legendary quest, where rogues first did meet him, well. Breaking legs and giving out kill orders.

However he seems sane unlike his father.(who is chaotic evil, most insane and demons are)

If build up correctly he could be a great villain. A chessplayer manipulating and outsmart people. you need a sherlock to defeat him in the end.

[Kelimbror]

you need a sherlock to defeat him in the end.

Anduin Wrynn is your man.

[Sesto]

Villain+ Anti= Anti-Villain

Your Well-meant Extremist, your Tragic Villains, your Nobel Villains, and your Villain-only-cause-he-opposes-the-hero. Those are Anti-Villains.

Your Nineties Anti-heroes, your gruff-but-good heroes, your I-did-what-I-had-to-do heroes, your tragic heroes. Those are Anti-Heroes.

Anti-Hero: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiHero
Flavors of Anti-Hero: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/AntiHero
Anti-Villain: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain
Flavors of Anti-Villain: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...OfAntiVillains

Just for fun-
Nineties Anti-Hero: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...netiesAntiHero

---------- Post added 2013-06-21 at 04:44 AM ----------

Don't trust him with your kid because he's a less mature version of Anduin.

The definitions of anti-villains and anti-heroes are so varied (sometimes they sound almost identical, whereas other definitions make them complete opposites) that it is incredibly easy to mix up the two. I suppose anti-villain would be a better term for what I want Wrathion to be.

The point is that he is willing to commit evil for the greater good. Kill 1000 to save a million. That kind of stuff.

[Shamanberry]

Without gong into faction-bashing, any character who aides BOTH Horde and Alliance, can never be a good guy..

Especially when he claims "Rest assured, my loyalty lies with your <insert your favorite faction>"...

One thing to remember with that is that the storyline is intended to be personal. Wrathion isn't out there getting millions of heroes to go out and do stuff, he's getting YOU to do it. The fact that others' storylines collide with yours is a necessity for gameplay, not for lore.

As such, Wrathion (relative to your storyline) is only doing all this for you, not for everyone that happens to come by. He personally invited you, and only you, to do all this stuff - afterall, the Sha of Fear and Thunder King only have 1 heart each. So he's not playing both sides - it's just that the Alliance and Horde get different versions of the story.

He IS, however, (at least outwardly) trying to get the two factions to work together, so even if you ignore that, it's not necessarily "evil" of him to do so - if your goal is to save the world by getting the two largest forces within it to stop fighting each other so they can take on a bigger threat, you're not going to get far unless you start off by telling them that you're working for their enemies too, at least until they've already come to the point where they're no longer fighting.

[david0925]

Aren't you guys bored of evil corrupted black dragons yet?

One good black dragon that's not a loot pinata is fine, right?

and people need to stop talking about in-game dialogues in regards to alliance and horde. Multiple people have already talked about "you can't have both sides win Gunship" and numerous game mechanics that are eventually overridden by lore in novel/comics, not that I expect people to read other people's response anyway.

[Wildmoon]

That more or less was the original theory of the infinate dragonflight. and makes more sense than what they came up with. So no, blizzard is not that deep. They write in a strickly Tolkien good verses evil storyline. No twists or deaths of good guys.

Wasn't Infinite dragon's story exactly what you described in Cata? Murozond said he witnessed something worse than HoT.

[Deleted]

Blizzard is running out of known characters to be main villains, thats why they try to let us know them before turning to be our enemy.
It happened to Garrosh, and I bet Wrathion too is going bo be villain in one of future expansions.

[Grunhither]

I think we'll definitely see some mischief from him in the future. A few points to consider:

1. Blizzard seems to have invested a lot of time and crafting into his story line. He was a neat and appropriate character to award rogues the legendary weapon in Cata, but there wasn't any actual need to bring him to MOP and continue another legendary weapon quest chain.The Celestials, Lorewalker Cho, or Taran Zhu could have accomplished pretty much the same thing that Wrathion is doing, and all of those characters have a little more investment in the outcome of Pandaria than Wrathion should. There's a reason Blizzard brought him, specifically, back to MOP.. and why his voice acting is always so well crafted.

2. I'd be interested in a Blizzard explanation about the line early in the quest chain were he promises you (the player) that his allegiance lies with Horde/Alliance (your faction). Lore/story wise, is Wrathion giving out multiple sha-gems, Crown of Heaven, and legendary weapons? In the lore, is he helping players from both Horde and Alliance, while promising concurrent allegiance to both behind the other's back? Why would they bother putting that vocal line in if it wasn't a point worth noting. I'd be interested to hear a Blizzard statement about how much the Wrathion events are transferred to actual game lore, rather than him just being a tool for legendary quest... which I've already explained could have been several other MOP characters and the faction dilemma would have been avoided. This could, possibly, lead to the confirmation that he's helping and lying to both sides to accomplish some hidden agenda.

3. This is a little "far-reaching" in terms of speculation, but I think it has enough merit to mention. When you receive the Crown of Heaven, Anduin seems really reluctant that you take it from Wrathion. I think he even says, "Don't tell me you're really going to put that on your head?!" or something to that effect. Anduin has studied with the prophet Velen, so could Anduin have developed somewhat of a prophetic insight? Wrathion and him have a somewhat odd friendship, but they do seem genuinely civil towards each other. Anduin's reluctance towards Wrathion's Crown of Heaven is another point in the story where Blizzard put in those lines of voice acting for a reason, and I think Anduin sensed a sort danger or secrecy behind Wrathion's intentions.

I'd love to have Wrathion's character developed more. I think he's very interesting, and BY FAR my favorite story line in MOP so far. I'd like to see him dip a little closer to the villain side of things than the neutral, but I think people need to remember that villain doesn't mean they're always against others. They're just supporting themselves or a third-party agenda. I'd like him to cause some trouble (maybe A LOT of trouble) and realize the error of his ways. I don't want his betrayal or actions to be the result of biology or corruption... I want it to be because he's crafting a plan to acquire power for himself. I'd like to avoid him being a kill-able raid boss though.

I have a theory that Wrathion will actually end up trying to summon the Burning Legion to Azertoh, in hopes that it will lead to the return of the Titans. He seemed awfully interested in the Titans during the ToT quest-line, and I think he's hatching a plan to meet them. He seems to know a little too much about the near-future return of the Burning Legion. Perhaps because he's planning to bring it himself? It would somewhat reinforce the idea of him wanting the Horde and Alliance to band together, and why he might be helping both sides out by rewarding us with new power. He wants the Horde and Alliance to be as strong as possible for when he brings the Legion to Azeroth. It's not because he wants to hurt us or destroy Azeroth, I just really think he wants to prompt the return of the Titans.

[Abstieg]

Wrong.. Blizzard have never stated, that Wrathion isn't evil.. Nor have they stated he is evil..
The only thing, Blizzard have stated, is, Wrathion is the only black dragon (known to exist) who isn't corrupted/insane..

For all we know, he can be more evil that DW, without the underlying corruption/insanity, which would make him even more dangerous..

IMO, no black dragons are good. A few a neutral, most are evil...

I didn't say he wasn't evil. I said he was the first black dragon who didn't HAVE to be evil. Also, what is your last sentence even supposed to mean? You know the Black Dragons have been corrupted for ten thousand years, right?

[Tyrannica]

That more or less was the original theory of the infinate dragonflight. and makes more sense than what they came up with. So no, blizzard is not that deep. They write in a strickly Tolkien good verses evil storyline. No twists or deaths of good guys.

how about, Illidan....why do you think he was the ruler of outland hiding in the black temple gathering more and more troops and power? He was at war with the burning legion.

how about arthas/the lich king....why do you think, he wanted to rule all of azeroth?

to be prepared against the legion.

Hints were given enough in the actual story ingame.

All those villains urged to conquer the planet they are living on - to unite the combined forces of their realm against the legion.

Did you fall asleep when playing wc3? It always was legion vs rest. this also means: legion vs good, neutral AND evil factions on the realms they tried to conquer. The burning legion isn't just evil, its a cosmic greater force and you will be well prepared to face them. I think illidan got it right when he said:"you are not prepared" cause probably he did not mean the fight with him but that we are not prepared to face the legion on a greater scale. they own multiple worlds and have endless armies, near all powerful demon lords like KJ and i did not count some titan knowledge and sargeras himself yet...actually i think its a bit ridiculous, that azeroth survived that long and a tad bid unbeleavable. night elves and other races + lore characters no matter how powerful they are, are not that strong to stop the BL. If they were, they would rule the world today and Alliance and Horde would be never at war.

After the failes the BL got in the past by trying to invade all of azeroth, they might be the ones who are well prepared, and overpowered at the first place at every aspect thinkable. Troops, Supplies, Worlds, Magic, Titan Knowledge, Commanders. Just rewatch the video with archimonde when he got to Dalaran. It was like he knows magic and the mages are lifless puppets watching how a biggie stomped on their city with superior magic knowledge. And he was weaker than KJ, let alone Sargeras. Don't see how horde and alliance will defeat the BL without massive support of the Titans themselves, cause whats left? no well of eternity, no sunwell and no dragon aspects. At least garrosh had the power of an old god now, we take another safeguard of azeroth against the BL out, for stupid reasions compared the the big picture.

btw, if you don't know it yet.

Arthas and Illidan were good guys. pretty good ones too. They tried everything to save their world. They just got corrupted and evil in the process, but their agenda never changed, saving the world means, beeing prepared against the legion. How to rule it, became ,when they have raised in power, a secondary thing. Whats evil or not is a the point of view. Do you think any of these believe actually they are evil? These villains all think they are right and the other side is wrong and stupid.

And garrosh for example just wants to restore the old pride of the old horde, making everybody strong and prepared.

Deathwing was a tool to release the old gods and prepare the world under a new(old) rule against the invasion of the BL.

So to an extreme level, if you are living on azeroth the evil is always the BL, while the rest are just misunderstandings.

---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 06:52 PM ----------

I have a theory that Wrathion will actually end up trying to summon the Burning Legion to Azertoh, in hopes that it will lead to the return of the Titans. He seemed awfully interested in the Titans during the ToT quest-line, and I think he's hatching a plan to meet them. He seems to know a little too much about the near-future return of the Burning Legion. Perhaps because he's planning to bring it himself? It would somewhat reinforce the idea of him wanting the Horde and Alliance to band together, and why he might be helping both sides out by rewarding us with new power. He wants the Horde and Alliance to be as strong as possible for when he brings the Legion to Azeroth. It's not because he wants to hurt us or destroy Azeroth, I just really think he wants to prompt the return of the Titans.

Excellent and insightful post.

Wrathion could really lure the BL to Azeroth to aquire more knowledge of their power and provoke possible the Titans to finally act. It was here before, in star craft1 when Acturus Mensk lured the zergs to a planet to destroy the conferderation. Yeah, seems the kind of character who wants to sacrafice everything for ultimate power sooner or later, but wrathion is still a young black dragon who needs development time, but, allready acts like a godfather and wants full control of everyting happening around him.