Ok, is this enough now?

[crazed]

Good change for Hunters, raises the skill cap again and now they are on an equal footing to everyone else. Hunters will still be rank 1 viable, but it will be much harder, which makes sense since it is rank 1 we are talking about. As for cyclone change, hmmm... that's been a core mechanic for Ferals for a long time, if they wanted to nerf it even more they should've made Cyclone have a 30 second cooldown instead of making it completely unviable to cast as feral. Nice to see Mages got a nerf to their mastery too, though I suspect the Bomb buffs will even that out.

[Venziir]

PTR is PTR - easy now folks, put out the torches, and put down the pitchforks.

[Rorke]

Good change for Hunters, raises the skill cap again and now they are on an equal footing to everyone else. Hunters will still be rank 1 viable, but it will be much harder, which makes sense since it is rank 1 we are talking about. As for cyclone change, hmmm... that's been a core mechanic for Ferals for a long time, if they wanted to nerf it even more they should've made Cyclone have a 30 second cooldown instead of making it completely unviable to cast as feral. Nice to see Mages got a nerf to their mastery too, though I suspect the Bomb buffs will even that out.

How does it raise the skill cap? When your class loses something especially utility from a cool down reseting ability, it has less tools to use. Which means its even easier to play because you have less to do.

Its the same as when people claimed that smoke bomb off prep increased the skill cap of Rogues. Or the nerfs to Cloak and Dagger increased the skill of Rogues. It doesn't work that way.

[Thirstblood]

They could disable readiness or add restrictions rules in some bg or arenas... idc and i don't care.

[Deleted]

How does it raise the skill cap? When your class loses something especially utility from a cool down reseting ability, it has less tools to use. Which means its even easier to play because you have less to do.

Its the same as when people claimed that smoke bomb off prep increased the skill cap of Rogues. Or the nerfs to Cloak and Dagger increased the skill of Rogues. It doesn't work that way.

I think the logic here, in both your examples, is that when you can't reset your cooldown, using said ability has a greater trade off, because you are limiting yourself in using it later into the game (until it comes off cooldown again), so basically decision making matters a lot more.

But you are correct. "Skill cap" is the wrong term, because very few players, if any players at all, makes zero mistakes while having the best possible decision making. A better description is that the removal of said abilities, for example Cloak and Dagger or resets of BW and Smoke bomb is that bad play, or stupid decision making, gets punished a lot more, because the trade-off is much greater.

[Thelxi]

The cyclone nerf was a long time coming and needed. Readiness change is.. stupid. Either remove the whole thing and compensate or think again.

[Rorke]

I think the logic here, in both your examples, is that when you can't reset your cooldown, using said ability has a greater trade off, because you are limiting yourself in using it later into the game (until it comes off cooldown again), so basically decision making matters a lot more.

But you are correct. "Skill cap" is the wrong term, because very few players, if any players at all, makes zero mistakes while having the best possible decision making. A better description is the removal of said abilities, for example Cloak and Dagger or resets of BW and Smoke bomb is that bad play, or stupid decision making, gets punished a lot more, because the trade-off is much greater.

Yeah basically. You put it in much better words than I did. Thank you.

[TJ]

The Readiness change is enough, it's not just taken BW (needed) from it but also things like Exhil which I think is a bit overkill. Hunters use Iron Hawk with a healer so I'm not even sure why they'd add things like that to the nerf? Feels like they don't know what's good and not so nerfed pretty much everything. If they revert SS to all classes and keep this change then it could be a decent one and not too much or too little.

They said they're going to compensate Hunters for the Readiness nerf which probably means MORE damage.. Apparently, PTR is chaos with everyone getting blown up by insane damage, and gems + enchants don't even work :/ Again.. the problem is that this change has hugely affected Hunter PvE where they're barely middle of the pack, so they need to compensate for the PvE players. This will result in likely more damage for Hunters and more problems will arise.

It makes 0 sense why they won't separate PvE and PvP.

[Deleted]

About damn time the triple trinket crap was over.

[Snuggli]

Not sure I like the Feral change at all. It's a buff to Feral teams at lower ratings, and a massive nerf to Feral teams at high ratings.

Train the Feral all game, and he will literally have 0 crowd control outside of a 5s stun every 45 seconds from bash. Ferals will have to overextend massively to try and land any cyclone at all (20y range, and healers will just dip behind a pillar if you're casting it at them).

It's a buff to Feral peels (spammable clone on DPS), and a massive nerf to Feral cc on healers.

[Dumaw]

This are good changes, but can someone tell me why they keep on buffing mage dmg??

[WarTV]

no more 3 trinkets ?
thank god

[Deleted]

This are good changes, but can someone tell me why they keep on buffing mage dmg??

Buffing? As it stands now, frost just got a ~30-50% nerf to their burst, which seems pretty unwarranted given the state of the game.

[Snuggli]

This are good changes, but can someone tell me why they keep on buffing mage dmg??

Frost got annihilated so far. You'll be lucky to see any Mages next patch at this rate.

[Dumaw]

I think I read it wrong then, you guys talking about the Mastery: Frostburn right? Now I see the nerfs. But there are buffs to other spells.
Frost Bomb now deals 70% damage to players (up from 60%).
Living Bomb now deals 85% damage to players (up from 70%).
Nether Tempest now deals 85% damage to players (up from 70%).

[Snuggli]

I think I read it wrong then, you guys talking about the Mastery: Frostburn right? Now I see the nerfs. But there are buffs to other spells.
Frost Bomb now deals 70% damage to players (up from 60%).
Living Bomb now deals 85% damage to players (up from 70%).
Nether Tempest now deals 85% damage to players (up from 70%).

They are a buff to sustained damage, but damage into deeped or frozen targets has been nerfed by 30-40% (ish). There is the Living Bomb / NT damage increase, coupled with FFB and IL damage, which basically translates into a buff to random proc-based damage, and a nerf to actual set-up burst into deeps or novas.

We'll see.

[Tyrean]

Do you guys get the feeling when you read this stuff that Blizzard has complicated the PvP aspect so much that they have lost vision? It seems like they just play whack-a-mole with the outliers and it is a never ended shell game. Makes me wonder if that IS the vision to keep people engaged with constant change on comps and specs. I guess I would much rather Holinka give us a manifesto on the vision for the game and work out the numbers later instead of what they are doing now which kinda stinks of throwing out ideas and seeing what sticks.

[Knolan]

- Rets and enhancement untouched?
- No word on the tanks that they destroyed mid season this patch?

Cyclone nerf is a huge nerf, people will just train the feral and we will get no way to put some counter pressure.

[Illiterate]

Do you guys get the feeling when you read this stuff that Blizzard has complicated the PvP aspect so much that they have lost vision? It seems like they just play whack-a-mole with the outliers and it is a never ended shell game. Makes me wonder if that IS the vision to keep people engaged with constant change on comps and specs. I guess I would much rather Holinka give us a manifesto on the vision for the game and work out the numbers later instead of what they are doing now which kinda stinks of throwing out ideas and seeing what sticks.

they fucked the game so hard they don't know wtf they're doing at this point

[TJ]

they fucked the game so hard they don't know wtf they're doing at this point

Did they ever know what they were doing?