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  1. #201
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    I had to stop raiding "progress" in my world 240 guild back when heart of fear was released due to my firstborn child and work. now that i can spare more time lateley i resuscribed. the obvious question was "how do you want to continue?" i could either run casual or step back into my mainraid. but honestly, theres no tempting reason to step back in:
    you can see the whole content by afking instead of spending 25ish hours a week so why would i dedicate so much time?
    (theres obv a difference between lfr and hc but still, bosses havent changed their 30ish abilities since bc so what "exciting" mechanics would drive me back?

    i get the same gear me guildies do. its obviously of lower itemlevel but why would it matter to me? so i can kill the average npc in 8 instead of 9 seconds?

    titles and mounts? ive got like 30 titles and 180 mounts.. ever since i got my spectral kitteh and invincible i never used another mount. and titles are just pointless. you have to zoom in so close to recognize them. also camelhoarder is the best

    what i also find very interesting is that i can enjoy the game much more now. always felt like i miss something: the you could or should progress faster mentality is gone.

  2. #202
    As someone who is now trying to start MOP raiding with our guild, it turns out that a lot of people are "pro-raiding" until it comes to actually dedicating time to it. With so many people having children of age < 10 (raiding is definitely NOT compatible with taking care of a child younger than 10), multiple jobs to make ends meet, jobs with > 40 hours, and 24/7 on-call work situations, getting people to be able to fully commit to raiding is not so easy.

    As someone else said: Either schedule 10 people, risking not being able to raid many days due to someone not being able to make it, or schedule 13 people and have to tell 3 they cannot raid. For hard core players that value raiding above all, the obvious solution is to schedule 13 and have 3 hang out in case someone has to leave, and being one of the three is just part of the game. For a lot of people, this is sufficient reason all by itself to stick to questing, scenarios, and at most LFR.

    Hopefully, at least this last problem is solved by the new "scalable raids". This would never work for hard core people because they would exploit the number of people needed to make raids easier (ie 15 might be much easier than 16 as they went from 2 to 3 of a particular add). But since scalable raiding is for non hard cores (easier than normal raiding, i.e. not real entertaining for hard cores), this problem is not really an issue. For non hard cores, we need to out-gear the encounter enough so that these sorts of things just really don't matter so much.

  3. #203
    I think this thread has done an amazing job of summing up why people will choose lfr over a raiding guild.

    Many of us simply don't have the time or energy we had we were younger, and Blizzard is holding on to it's long term customers. I played the original warcraft when it came out. I was 14 years old. I'm in my mid 30s now. Blizz knows the value of holding on to my generation which is a huge part of why LFR exists.

    LFR might be filled with extremely bad players (I've seen my fair share, not going to lie!). But it is also filled with people with heart, people who love the franchise, people who want to see content... but honestly can't devote time to a raiding guild schedule.

    It lets us play the game on our own terms, at our own pace. And I salute Blizz for it. I think flex raiding also sounds amazing which some friends and I may try out.

  4. #204
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    My transition into LFR just sort of happened, for a long time in cata I continued to raid with my guild in normal modes when LFR came out, but once that guild was no longer active, I dunno, I kinda just stopped raiding normals.

    I think I can attribute this to my love of alts, I have 11 characters at max level, or well, kinda, I'm at 8 x 90 and 3x 85 atm, this ofcourse leaves precious little time for lots of normal raiding, I like to play all of my characters and I guess LFR just suits that perfectly, I can do all of my runs on all of my characters.

    I still do the odd PuG whenever I can get one, but for people with a lot of characters like me, LFR really fits the bill, it has it's problems yes, but it sure beats trying to get all of those characters raiding with guilds.

  5. #205
    Why do I LFR?

    Because I have better things to do with my limited time than deal with elitist idiots...
    Because I can choose my spec and class...
    Because my progress will not be stopped by one or more idiots in my guild...
    Because standing around outside an instance waiting for slow people is not fun...
    Because guild drama is annoying...
    Because I don't like being told what addons I need to function...

    How many answers do I really need? The majority of raiders are not anywhere as good as they think they are... if they where they would all have heroic ToT cleared by now and most don't. I play MMOs to chat with friends and kill dragons. I can do that in LFR with a lot less stress.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarM View Post
    I think one thing he is right, rewards in LFR are too great, its not the ilvl, its the itemization. Itens like Horridon´s Last Grasp, Wushoolay, Breath of hydra are too good to be in LFR. There should and will be Normal/Heroic exclusive itens. Blizzard already sad that.
    About ilvl, 20 ilvls is much more then you think, its 1 and half tier. My Disc Priest alt have 17,5k int with 504 ilvl. My Resto Druid main, have 27k int with 533 ilvl, its a huge diference with thundergorged itens and stuff.

    Some people really can´t fit a schedule and are too busy. Most people just can´t find a guild, cause are too lazy or simple don´t care, as i already said, there are guilds that raid 8-9 hours/week with good/perfect heroic progression. Guilds that raid 2 days/week and are already 13/13H.
    I just took the lazy version and went with sims for the diffrence in that ilvl.
    But you say the diffrence is bigger than i think, and yet that the rewards are too big? I overall think it's fine. Even a failed raider will do more than a good lfr-raider if they clear content

    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    Would be interesting to see what the age range to all this is

    I get the feeling old gits like me in the over 30 range are prolly more pro LFR than people in the teens to twenties range

    Nearly every reply has been its cause of work or other life commitments like my response so i really would guess that age has alot to do with it
    Being good 30 myself, but yes.
    Having one you live with, kids and work can limit your spare time a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacotruck View Post
    They would be silly to care then, since LFR was not even open. LFR is released after normal and heroic, and even after flex in the future.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-23 at 12:25 AM ----------



    Killing raid bosses inside a raid instance while in a raid group. Sorry but that is raiding. It's sort of like saying a pick up game of street basketball is not real basketball. It's not the NBA, but it is still basketball.
    Agreeing with the first.
    The other is like cramming a piece of paper into a ball and throw it in the paper bin and then call it basketball.

    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    Why do I LFR?

    Because I have better things to do with my limited time than deal with elitist idiots...
    Because I can choose my spec and class...
    Because my progress will not be stopped by one or more idiots in my guild...
    Because standing around outside an instance waiting for slow people is not fun...
    Because guild drama is annoying...
    Because I don't like being told what addons I need to function...

    How many answers do I really need? The majority of raiders are not anywhere as good as they think they are... if they where they would all have heroic ToT cleared by now and most don't. I play MMOs to chat with friends and kill dragons. I can do that in LFR with a lot less stress.
    It's all about the people you find.
    Just like you often will find lfr with lfr-heroes feeling superior because they see themself as awesome because they do more dps then half the raid.
    You will find idiots in lfr, normal and HCs.
    The advantage to normal/HC is you can actually pick the kind you want to raid with, if you have the time
    While you can leave lfr, you never know if next lfr will be better or worse.
    Waiting for people? We're a few that summons when all are gathered. It's basically just like waiting for lfr for those taking summons.
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  7. #207
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    I can only speak for myself here, but it's a combination of two reasons. The first is that I play WoW to chill, enjoy my evening, and knock down the forces of evil while rocking out to Alice Cooper or Pat Benatar or something. Normal and Heroic are a bit too demanding for my playstyle, and that's fine. The second, more important one, is because I am neurologically incapable of the reaction times and multitasking needed for Normal or Heroic these days. This was different until 2008 when I got into not one, but two serious car accidents that have impacted my reaction time and ability to focus on more than a couple tasks at hand.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Golden Age of raiding god I hope your just stating your opinion and not saying to say that is a fact because ill really LOL really hard.

    Before I left wow I only did LFR because I was tired of the guild drama and normally being the one who had to run the raid even tho I stated many times I did not want to.

    In LFR you can Ignore all the people in a guild run or even a pug run you can not ignore the other 9/24 people and that to me is a blessing.

    Also believe it or not LFR is fun for a lot of people.

    Also one reason I stopped trying to join raiding guilds was because they wanted me to go to there guild website and full out a apt....this is not a job this is a game.
    Then dont join a guild that's too ''serious'' for you, I personally would never be able to play with people who do not take this game as seriously as I do / not putting the game and heroic progress above everything.

  9. #209
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    The real reason people choose LFR is because they aren't good enough at the game to play.. and don't understand what a raider is..


    "I can't find a guild..." is a terrible excuse... there are guilds everywhere, at all times, all needs.. You just need to find it, if you really want it. And KNOW what you're getting in to.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    A lot of anti-LFR people keep saying that players are leaving raiding guilds because they can get the same stuff in LFR. What you actually get in LFR is;

    Healer 10-15 min queue, Dps 20-60 min queue.
    Potential of;
    tank fail due to pvp gear
    Heal fail due to healers being in dips spec because they were too good for dps queues.
    DPS fail because of not following the mechanics that they know better than to do (AOE on DWing thumb)
    Unenchanted/ungemmed/unforged/wrong gear/no knowledge of class/no knowledge of the encounter
    Afk players
    Players barely trying
    People who grief you because they are 1 in 8 million and no consequences.
    Booted just because someone said "Kick X because of bad DPS!" When you were a healer.
    DPS in tank spec
    Huntards killing you with misdirect for shits and giggles
    People screaming at you for tanking wrong
    People screaming
    SUB-PAR crappy versions of LFR gear.

    And through all of this crap that is the random bundle that we call LFR people STILL choose to abandon Raid Guilds for LFR, so why?
    And in the raid guilds you have:
    - ridiculous application process, that makes you feel like applying for a job.
    - overbearing, power-tripping officers.
    - schedule.
    - Coming on time and waiting for 30 minutes for everyone else to be on.
    - Drama.
    - Waiting for some guy explaining strategy before every fight in a monotone nasal voice, even if 90% of the raid already know it.
    - Loot rules.
    - People tell you to change your playstyle dramatically to get 1% dps increase.
    - Being sat every other week because there's like 5 mages in your guild already.
    - Wiping on a boss 7 times a night because one moron can't figure out a simple mechanic.
    I mean, do you see it, OP, or do I need to name MORE reasons why I never want to go back to "organized" raiding?
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  11. #211
    LFR is relaxed, easier, and most importantly not tied to schedule. You can queue whenever you feel like it.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  12. #212
    Scarab Lord Teebone's Avatar
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    My reason is the same as a lot of people: I can play a lot, but my chaotic work schedule does not allow me to be on at any set time. Sure, I could be in an H25 guild, I was way back in LK. But what guild would want someone who can't commit to certain raid times every single week? And what guild would tailor their schedules for one person? I play enough to equal the time of a hardcore raider, but the times I can play aren't the same every day.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    The real reason people choose LFR is because they aren't good enough at the game to play.. and don't understand what a raider is..


    "I can't find a guild..." is a terrible excuse... there are guilds everywhere, at all times, all needs.. You just need to find it, if you really want it. And KNOW what you're getting in to.
    That's not at all why I choose that. Stop putting words in people's mouths to defend your hobby of choice, and please, for the love of holy god, remember this is a just a game :x

  14. #214
    I think the real question is why in the world would anyone NOT choose LFR?

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    The real reason people choose LFR is because they aren't good enough at the game to play.. and don't understand what a raider is..
    "Good enough" is an arbitrary bullshit measurement. Blizzard could tune raids so that you won't be "good enough" either, and suddenly you will be other side of the fence, crying how everything is too hard.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  16. #216
    Mechagnome jd812's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    So you would rather roll the die of LFR horrors for sub-par rewards than join the golden Age of raiding? This flies in the face of the ideal that everyone should be forced into raiding guilds that anti-LFR players want.

    If you are willing to do all the horrors involved in LFR rather than deal with a Guild that normal raids then logically there must be something wrong with the raiding guilds or you grew up and can't 24/7 wow any more.

    Perhaps raiding was always meant to be small groups of people who actually want to do that activity rather than thousands of people who are forced to join their guilds to see the content?
    dude you said it, exactly what i am thinking.
    i quit raiding back in 4.1, before lfr, and if it wasn't for lfr, then i wouldn't raid anything at all anymore

  17. #217
    Im only running LFR to get geared back and get back into raiding. Atleast I hope to get back into raiding, most guilds seem to be raiding later at night than I can do with my job.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    The real reason people choose LFR is because they aren't good enough at the game to play.. and don't understand what a raider is..


    "I can't find a guild..." is a terrible excuse... there are guilds everywhere, at all times, all needs.. You just need to find it, if you really want it. And KNOW what you're getting in to.
    I used to have your mindset too, and then I took several months off from the game and realized how silly my choice to be a hardcore raider really was. It's not about skill, it's about time commitment and willing to sacrifice yourself for your guild. The thing that most hardcore raiders in WoW post-Vanilla don't realize is that WoW, even on the high end, has always been a very casual game compared to the MMOs before it. Organization, time commitment, commitment to one's guild, a half decent attention span, and probably a little self loathing. Those are the things that make hardcore raiders, not some amazing skill that's missing from the majority of the population. I have nothing against people who choose to raid, I don't look down on them, but having been one of them I can look at raiding and say that it's really not worth it.

    So why do I, a former hardcore raider, choose to run LFR over join another raid guild? Because quite honestly I think it's beyond stupid to schedule huge blocks of time each week (and yeah, 3 hours 3-4 nights a week is a huge block of time for someone that works, believe it or not.) where I'm not allowed to do anything other than raid. Miss a couple raids over the course of a couple months? Huge guilt trip. I've never seen or been in a serious raid guild where this didn't happen. Even if my schedule was not super chaotic right now, even if I could fit a raid guild's schedule, I wouldn't do it. One of my biggest regrets with WoW is the amount of time that I spent raiding, because I have literally nothing to show for that time spent. Most of the time it wasn't even fun, it was for the "glory" of the guild and my friends in it. With LFR there are frustrating moments, but nothing _ever_ like bashing our heads against Kael'Thas for hours and hours and hours and hours day after day. It wasn't fun, and what do we have to show for that now? Not a damn thing.

  19. #219
    Can join lfr whenever i want.I come home from work 0:30 so kinda hard to find raiding guild.

  20. #220
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    This might be a wee off-topic so I'll keep it short(ish):

    One of the problems with raiding guilds and raiding generally is that for a long time now it's been rather difficult to break into it. Guilds that are actively raiding are generally uninterested in people new to raiding and social guilds as a rule don't usually make a lot of progress. And so here we are. Guild applications that are on occasion invasive both in terms of game and private life with requirements that essentially require one to be already successful. No growth. Mostly stagnation--at best--in the population for that content.

    My personal belief is that raiding at the normal/heroic level needs some new blood if it's going to survive much less thrive. But right now the air is pretty much completely squeezed out of that balloon. It's a bad thing for raiding specifically and the game generally. I don't see it changing really and that's a problem long-term...one that Blizzard isn't going to solve.

    Anyway, the long-range effect of this is to make raiding guilds unattractive for a lot of people. Why even really bother if you don't feel as if you're welcomed? Guilds really needed to change when LFR came along and mostly they didn't. In any case, things aren't going back to the way they were so the longer these attitudes persist, the worse it will eventually get. It's very much a community problem to solve. Staying quiet in the face of the general roar of hate for all things not normal/heroic raiding isn't going to cut it if you want to get people involved. People need a strong reason to rearrange their schedules to raid as it has been historically. Right now, they don't.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

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