Why was World of Warcraft dumbed down that much?

[Deleted]

Blizzard fanboys deluding themselves they are right by posting "show us hardmode achievemnts" over and over again. So cute, especially since nobody said that heroic raiding is easy.

[xanzul]

If it would require only one person i would, but you need 9 or 24 other people with knowledge to.

I thought you said time was the only issue? Are you implying heroic mode raiding has other considerations other than time despite previous statements to the contrary proving you are absolutely completely 100% full of shit? The mods need to start perm banning every single last one of you from here. You people contribute nothing but noise and elitism.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:17 PM ----------

Community ignores problem, which is the problem.

The game has less and less RPG elements to it every patch, and over 8 years, that's added up. Every little stupid thing you used to have to do to achieve something had a purpose.

It's not a matter of easier/harder.

How is Wow not an RPG? Why does the game being easier make it not an RPG when two of three initials are role play which have NOTHING to do with difficulty at all? The lack of role play if anything makes it not an RPG. Stop spouting stupid shit already. It's tired and it's old and all you people are managing to do is insult the intelligence of anyone with an IQ higher than that of a door knob.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:20 PM ----------

essentially wow is two different and separate games, the casual game and the hardcore. the problem is not a dumbing down of the game, its simply that the base level of gameplay gets simpler while the higher end content gets more complex. the way that difficulty is implemented in the game is such that content is either mind-numbingly easy or way too hard to even attempt (due to finding and navigating a hardcore guild environment). essentially people want even harder 1 man content, or harder content that can be queued for.

Which is why Blizzard has been introducing more ways of having variable difficulty but unfortunately most of the people who complain in much the same manner you do scream bloody murder the second any other levels difficulty is added to the game.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:21 PM ----------

And how much time does it take to kill HC bosses in a new tier for a casual guild? shit ton off time that i dont have.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 03:57 PM ----------

What more do you need then knowledge of you class and bosses? time.

So ability doesn't matter? Seriously? Are you kidding me?

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:25 PM ----------

Nice comparison , comparing astronaut to wow cmon.

Wow wasn't rocket science in vanilla and it isn't now. Get over it and better yet get the fuck over yourself.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:28 PM ----------

Well all games lately are simpler and simpler and easier to play and most popular obviously, so they're just going with the flow proly.

Again Wow was developed and launched as a causal mmo from the get go. It isn't "going with the flow" it is called deciding on a course and staying on it despite all the wannabe hardcores who mindlessly try to rewrite history.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:31 PM ----------

Comparing CD management and reaction time to the brutal test's astronaut's have to go through, lol it's not even close to the same thing.

That is kind of the point of analogies to show the differences between one thing and another but you don't seem to have the intellect to discern the differences that are being pointed out and focusing on the most irrelevant thing possible.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:34 PM ----------

WoW has always been an easymode MMO. Beyond that, it's simply a matter of the devs caving to players wants at some point, and the players learning that if they simply continue complaining, the devs will acquiesce sooner or later.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if soon one can simply start off with a level 90 character. "Quality of life" and all that.

And yet we still have LFR and cross realm zones and other such features (strangely enough the exact same people who make these thread whine about those too). Blizzard hasn't scrapped any of it and if anything they have expanded the reach of those technologies with no end in sight. Make no mistake about it if Blizzard decides something is the right choice for the game they are going to stick to it no matter how much bitching and whining happens.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:36 PM ----------

In the real world this is called addressing customer feedback. In world of warcraft or at least on this forum it's often refered to as "catering to whiners" or in your case "caving to players wants".

The correct response to customer feedback isn't to give customers what they want. The correct response is to explain why things are the way they are and why they may not be changing now or in the future. Many times, most times actually, what the customer wants is not only detrimental to the company providing the service but to other customers as well.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:39 PM ----------

No you seem to believe that Raiding HC bosses in wow is as hard as the requirements for being a astronaut.

And you have now lost any little remaining credibility you may have had. Good job.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:41 PM ----------

Alot of the changes was needed for the better. I do feel however that the game has lost alot of the social aspect that it once had. They dumbed it down a little to much.

You need to interact with others to do the content that matters as in the content that has no queue system whatsoever. This game is as social as you want it to be so stop blaming others because you are too god damn lazy to interact with others yourself.

[Goatfish]

The hell is this nobody gives a flying F about you soloing ZF / Low level content as a lvl 50 warrior. Yeah he said top 5% is easy so why the fuck should he claim shit is easy when he can't provide evidence either

Wrecked.

Random low content I CAN SOLO YAYYYYYYYYYYYY means game is easy let me go to MMO post that shit

Regardless of your terrible reading skills, because I feel like it: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zzlekaz/simple

Formerly Kazzel of Vek'nilash. At one time I was considered one of the best shaman healers in the world, at my best in ICC I held the top healing record of all classes for sindragosa for 15% of buffs, and top 10 of all healing classes for several other fights until the 30% buffs. I had acceptances to two different top 15 world guilds. I created personal spreadsheets before EJ came out with them and trained several shaman from nobodies to pulling their weight in a heroic guild. I completed every fight on heroic through and including Ruby Sanctum including things such as Death's Demise and Light of Dawn. As far as I know I was also the first healer in the world to solo heal H-Anub'arak 10m, (I mainly think this is so since it was still considered difficult content and our other healer fell asleep in a corner after the second boss, I just healed the rest solo as we 9-manned it). I could probably bring up more things of interest from my WoW career such as a world 4th Ignis kill because I came up with the strategy that became the normal for killing him... but I think this might be enough for you. (If you want confirmation this is me, feel free to pay $15 for a month and I might just hop on and jump around for you)

I believe the top 5% of content as I last saw it was not too difficult compared to some of the other harder fights I did such as Alone in the Dark, Light of Dawn, Algalon, or pretty much anything in Sunwell. Though I can't speak for MoP too much. The only fights close to as difficult were the bugged and/or vastly overtuned fights in the beginning of Cata 10-mans, which were harder anyway for me merely since we had to recruit 4 new players of a 10-man raid, 2 of which had no want to get better at the game in the slightest.

[xanzul]

Wow people actually don't think this game is dumbed down???

What was "smart" about hearthing to town to learn new spells? I'm sorry if people are going to spout nonsense like this their intelligence seriously needs to be questioned along with their ability to think critically.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:46 PM ----------

I think some things have been streamlined to make better gameplay and some have definatly been dumbed down. I think its a different game than it was years ago, though like then I still enjoy it a lot. Being in an awesome guild really helps keep the game fun.

It would be nice of those of you using the term "dumbed down" could actually provide an actual example of this and not the absolute bullshit people like the OP continually prattle on about.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:48 PM ----------

Yeah, the social aspect is the only point I'd concede. This is likely because of LFD, an unfortunate side-effect but LFD was necessary and is still a great thing. Also, as the game has gotten more popular you get more of a lower quality of person joining the game and as such interactions went from fine to juvenile to people avoiding socializing in game because of so many bad experiences, just a sad consequence of popularity.

The community hasn't changed it has only gotten more people in it. LFD didn't cause idiots to act like idiots, their immaturity did. These people were playing in vanilla too and no they weren't blacklisted because many times some of these morons were crucial to their guild's progression. If anything systems like LFD allow players to get away from bullshit like that.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:52 PM ----------

because taking 1 spec from 1 class is total and complete representation of the entire talent system from Vanilla-MoP right? I personally hate the new system, It feels like the Fischer Price version of talent picking. There were many of us that enjoyed playing the old hybrid system (frostfire mages come to mind). And meaningful options? really....tell me how many warlocks take Archimondes Vengeance over KJC..all the other tiers are basically a different way to accomplish the same thing..dont believe me?

Tier1: How to heal
Tier2: How to peel people off you
Tier3: How to reduce damage
Tier4: Another peeling tier
Tier5: How to empower your demon OR sacrifice your demon for your own power (the only tier so far with anything that resembles a meaningful choice)
Tier6: How to pick the one obvious choice for your spec and environment you play in (pve or pvp)

As opposed to:

Do I want to max out the current tree im in, which will buff my main spells, or do i want to dabble in other trees, possibly buffing my main spells and adding some utility?

There is nothing "fisher price" about the new talent system. I actually interact with my new talents on all my characters on a regular basis depending on what I'm doing. Before that talents were "set it and forget it" until next patch. What was "smart" about that? There is nothing smart about copy paste talents and most talents were downright useless and had to be taken to get the talents that actually did something. What is fun and interactive about that? Is the new system perfect? Of course not but Blizzard is clearly willing to take feedback and make changes so instead of whining like a bitch about it here why not go to the official forums and do something useful for once?

As far as losing out on unique hybrid builds I think that is a loss many players are willing to deal with if it means not having to deal with players who purposely spec badly just to be different.

[Resentful]

Regardless of your terrible reading skills, because I feel like it: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zzlekaz/simple

Formerly Kazzel of Vek'nilash. At one time I was considered one of the best shaman healers in the world, at my best in ICC I held the top healing record of all classes for sindragosa for 15% of buffs, and top 10 of all healing classes for several other fights until the 30% buffs. I had acceptances to two different top 15 world guilds. I created personal spreadsheets before EJ came out with them and trained several shaman from nobodies to pulling their weight in a heroic guild. I completed every fight on heroic through and including Ruby Sanctum including things such as Death's Demise and Light of Dawn. As far as I know I was also the first healer in the world to solo heal H-Anub'arak 10m, (I mainly think this is so since it was still considered difficult content and our other healer fell asleep in a corner after the second boss, I just healed the rest solo as we 9-manned it). I could probably bring up more things of interest from my WoW career such as a world 4th Ignis kill because I came up with the strategy that became the normal for killing him... but I think this might be enough for you. (If you want confirmation this is me, feel free to pay $15 for a month and I might just hop on and jump around for you)

I believe the top 5% of content as I last saw it was not too difficult compared to some of the other harder fights I did such as Alone in the Dark, Light of Dawn, Algalon, or pretty much anything in Sunwell. Though I can't speak for MoP too much. The only fights close to as difficult were the bugged and/or vastly overtuned fights in the beginning of Cata 10-mans, which were harder anyway for me merely since we had to recruit 4 new players of a 10-man raid, 2 of which had no want to get better at the game in the slightest.

Don't need to you already provided it and you wrote quite a history. 10 man cata in the start was yeah overtuned to hell aka Maloriak H

[xanzul]

Or you started playing after Wrath...then its not because your stupid, its because you were never forced to actually LEARN anything other then how to aoe and tunnel on a boss and LFR only encourages this mentality

I think if anything it is elitist attitudes like yours that cause players to not want to do anything but LFR. If people are being driven out of normal mode raiding it is because of this community not because Blizzard is "dumbing down" the game.

[nekobaka]

You want hard content? Go heroics, awesome loot with mounts, bonus bosses, titles and bla bla.

Alright Ill just quit my job and find a new one that will allow me to raid during prime time and find a heroic mode progression guild while applying multitudes more time in the game compared to PuG raiding in Cata or doing a Cata heroic. Why is it that I have to put WoW before real life in order to be able to participate in engaging content? Just because I dont have much time to play doesnt mean I am incapable of getting out of the fire, using CC, or communicating with other players in a dungeon. Yes those things that casuals have been doing from Classic.

Being a casual doesnt mean you are bad.

[xanzul]

You tried to compare wow to profession's that you need years and years off study to complete, did you not?

You may want to try looking up the word analogy in a dictionary before attempting to enter this discussion again.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 09:58 PM ----------

Their INTENT is to "trim the fat". But that "fat" adds flavor, much like in a steak :P

Obviously not everything cut from the game was a bad move (hello dismounting when you go through water), but many things were removed because they felt unnecessary, when in fact they added personal touch to the game.

Like I always say, those things put the RPG in MMORPG. Now we're getting to this insta-gratification slot machine game era.

Difficulty and needless time sinks have NOTHING to do with role playing games and please keep in mind that is what RPG means: role playing game. Not "needlessly difficult just for the sake of being difficult".

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:00 PM ----------

The worst is that, when one hits the level cap, one usually just sticks around in a capital city, waiting for a queue to pop up. It's lazy and not fun at all.

Because sitting around in a city for hours trying to form groups and then refusing to fly out there and asking for a summon isnt lazy at all. Get real.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:02 PM ----------

Why are you doing that? There is plenty to do if you try.

The likely response you will get is that pet battles, dailies, and all sort of other content isn't content somehow magically and only dungeons and raids are. It is a player problem and not a design issue. There is a reason why Blizzard stopped listening to them about it.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:04 PM ----------

Uh, leveling was harder in Vanilla. I remember running into those Korbold tunnels at level 8 and dying almost every time I got an add.

Now I can charge in at level 8 wearing level 1 grays that I started with and kill 3 with absolutely no issue.

When Dungeon Finder first came out I really liked the concept because I could gear quickly. That was around the time I stopped enjoying the game, too. I think it's because I stopped making friends and got bored. Back in WotLK before Dungeon Finder, I always had a small group of friends that constantly grew as I was running heroics. The fact most of the zones in the game don't even matter anymore, as I can just sit in a main city and queue up, really saddens me.

I will agree with what above posters are saying, though. WoW back in Vanilla was still one of the easiest MMO's on the market, compared to Final Fantasy XI and Everquest. It's like MMO's are competing for who can be the most casual. I'm really hoping an MMO comes out soon that follows suit to the "old ways".

Stop using heirlooms on alts and leveling will go back to being "hard" again. In reality it will just take longer but won't be harder.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:09 PM ----------

You're still comparing a real life training that an extremely small percentage of people can complete to a video game...that makes your analogy retarded. He's saying, for Astronaut training..you need more than just knowledge. And you're still comparing that to him saying for WoW..all you need to know is the basic mechanics of the game and you're good. He's right you dunce. Learn your rotation/s, learn your "oh shit" spells, learn to listen to your dbm, and most of all, learn to move out of bad shit. This game isn't hard. If a group of competent people got together, they can down most if not all of the current content. Why doesn't it happen often? Because not everyone has the luxury of playing for hours on end to down a fucking boss in a video game, and there is a massive influx of retards playing.

As for what the OP is saying. A lot of things is just convenience but that kind of takes away from the immersion of the game. It doesn't feel like a "second world" like it use to. Just feels like another video game with a shitty combat system. Things are more retard friendly because a lot of kids play, hell I started playing this when I was like 12. They just started adding shit for their younger player base. It's a drastic change that, sooner or later, was going to happen.

And as for the people saying "Post your Ra-den kill or GTFO", shut the fuck up. What, people can't criticize the game if they haven't done heroic content? It's not even new content, it's the same fucking bosses with more HP and a few more abilities. Woopty fucking doo. And like I said above, not everyone has the luxury of spending massive amounts of hours into a video game. That doesn't mean that anyone that hasn't downed that boss is incompetent. An incompetent raid group, maybe. That's all I have to say on the matter. Being on here makes me way too angry..PEACE!

You are seriously telling people who question the veracity of those who claim the game is too easy to "shut the fuck up"? Who the hell do you think you are? If you haven't done the content you can't claim it is easy. I haven't done it either and I know it is harder than normal mode but beyond that I won't say more on it because I myself haven't done it. I don't have the experience to back up that sort of an opinion. What I will say however is that it is quite telling that the people who claim heroic raiding is "easy" never ever have the kills to prove it.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:12 PM ----------

There are a few reasons as to why that percentage is so small.

1. Not everyone can spend a shit load of hours to down a boss or two.
2. People get really tired of the content and don't see a reason to do a harder version when you have completed it already. You have LFR and Normals..you might say that heroic content is more content but it really isn't. It's still the same boss with some extra abilities.
3. Incompetent raid groups. Not saying that everyone in most raid groups are incompetent, but they may not have synergy or not work well together. Get the right people playing with each other and they'll accomplish a lot. This game, really is not hard.

If people are such hot shit why do they even need to waste time doing normal mode at all? You just need to clear it on normal once and then never again need to touch that mode. If they don't mind raiding for weeks on end why is it a problem to do the "faceroll" version once to get to the harder version? Why aren't people progressing to heroic? To claim it isn't difficulty is a flat out lie and you damn well know it.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:14 PM ----------

Somewhere around 0.05% of the players, I think? Which is low, no doubt, but when put in perspective, only like 2% of the players even finished normal so it's really not that bad. Most people really don't care about heroic mode at all. These numbers could be wrong (I'm pulling them from memory based on stuff other people posted) but it seems fairly reasonable in my mind.

And yet people like the OP are obsessed with the game being "too easy". Why are these people willing to waste days and days and months of time bitching and whining on forums that the game is too easy but somehow magically don't have the time to actually do the content that is "too easy"? I call bullshit.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:16 PM ----------

Blizz didn't remove it, it degraded on it's own. Like I said in an earlier post, it's a sad side-effect of popularity. You get a huge influx of people and many of them had never played an MMO, many of them were younger/less mature, the community just slowly degraded and as such the people who were normally social became less so because interactions were generally negative.

So you are saying the game is less social now because more people play it? What the fuck. Do you people even think before you post? The game is "less social" now because elitist wannabe hardcores have decided a queue system is defiling their holy and sacred game. Why on earth would people want to put up with that shit at all? I don't blame people for being less social if it means avoiding people like you and the OP.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:18 PM ----------

the BIGGEST problem with the entire gaming community is just that. nobody CARES about the "MMO" part of MMO games anymore. Everyone wants a singleplayer experience in every game they play. This game was designed to be a social environment where you meet players and have fun. now I can play the entire game by myself or with one friend and NEVER run out of things to do. the only "MMO" part of the game left is that there's a bunch of people in the same capital city as you, and then you hardly come into contact with anyone after that for more than 10 minutes

Ever think to consider the rampant elitism in this community might be what is degrading it? Again what is the motivation for people being social if any attempts at doing so just results in your dps or ability being insulted?

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:19 PM ----------

Nor should he need to. Less than 5% of a games content being hard doesn't make the game itself difficult.

It isn't an excuse for not doing difficult content though. I don't understand why you people don't find it odd that people who want difficult content refuse to do it.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:23 PM ----------

There's a 4 year period between Wrath and LFR, two expansions as well. If you haven't been tasked with doing those things then maybe you should step out of the 5 mans. LFR doesn't encourage anything. Lazy players will be lazy.

LFR also consists of the majority of players who can't get in a normal raid yet you expect them to be amazing? I bet you will be upset when Flex raids are too hard for you in 5.4.

Also not everyone who does LFR has any interest in doing "real" raiding. Many are there just to see the content and get some gear and hopefully have some fun. For some reason that is sacrilege in this game.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:26 PM ----------

What is the point of this thread? What are you hoping to achieve by posting it here? If these things bug you so much, you could either post this on the official forums where someone of consequence may review it, or you can stop playing. No one is forcing you to subscribe to and play the game month after month.

Odds are like many of the malcontents here the OP is perm banned on the official forums and as a result is especially bitter.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:28 PM ----------

I think Blizzard are trying to fix that.

Brawlers guild and outdoor elite bosses - many one shot mechanics that can't be outgeared, resulting in challenging content.
Flex raids that are harder than LFR - new version of good old raid pugging, but without ability to ninja loot stuff or loot whoring.
Heroic scenarios not available in LFD - trying to help communities.

Everything that was messed up, was done during Cataclysm. Worst expansion ever. Unfortunately some things, like linear dumbed down questing and split leveling instances into short 5 mins aoe fests can't be fixed

P.S. I strongly disagree with talents. New system is amazing, way better than old system of mandatory cookie cutter choices. I don't understand how could anyone miss old system.

Also now that zone population issues are for the most part resolved Blizzard can bring back group questing. And yet for some reason people would rather bitch and whine about cross realm zones rather than ask for content that takes advantage of it.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:30 PM ----------

Welcome to gaming for the masses in 2013. It's not just WoW sadly, it's all games designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Did you play D3 by any chance? They basically streamlined all the areas so it was impossible to get lost, there was a big blinking arrow always telling you where to go, big orange blinking lights telling you where the quest items where, all mood was ruined by the bosses constantly popping up and telling you exactly where to go and what to do next.

Game makers fear that if they require any sort of thought or effort it will scare off too many stupid people from their game.

There are so many valid criticisms and concerns about many current video games and yet you leap to insult the people who play them. Classy.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:32 PM ----------

Lots of overly defensive people ITT.

You can be a fan of WoW and admit it's gotten steamlined and dumbed down to a degree. It's just the direction gaming has gone as it's gone mainstream.

I'm sure everyone has seen this little joke:



Games are now for "everyone" and eveyrone includes 5 year olds who can't read and 85 year olds who have never booted up a PC.

Game developers want to cast as wide a net as possible and that means often the quality of the game is compromised as to not "scare off" too many buffons.

It's not an attack on WoW, it's just the sad state of the industry.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 04:05 PM ----------

"Quality of life" improvements can destroy a game.

Let's say hypothetically Blizzard put in a feature where you could instantly warp anywhere in the world whenever you wanted.

Would it be a quality of life improvement? Sure would, I mean, travel time is just filler after all, nobody plays the game to travel, however would such a feature destroy the game? Sure would.

You keep removing "filler" and streamlining stuff and simplifying, eventually you've fundamentally changed the game.

You are complaining that games are for everyone now? Well for one thing they always were but I'm more concerned with your attitude and belief that games are only for the elite. People like you are destroying communities one game at a time. Get out and stay out.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:34 PM ----------

Sorry heroic raiding is so damn easy that I quit it in Cata. I know its the same because I will just ask my old guild mates about the difficulty and they will always say its the same.

Try to wake up for a sec and realize the game is so faceroll

What is with all the people with low post counts posting crap like this lately?

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 10:37 PM ----------

Looks like the OP is on an anti-LFR posting spree. Here's another recent thread he made about LFR and got infracted for:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ion-of-society

Note: Off-topic. Knock it off. [ML]

This right here is the problem with this site. The mods infract the wrong people for absolutely bullshit reasons. Off topic? How the fuck is pointing out a thread the OP made about LFR in a thread about game difficulty offtopic? Mods do your god damn jobs already. This thread has been posted in by 2 mods and a third has infracted a poster and this thread remains open and I'm seeing a whole lot o abuse directed at those who disagree with the OP and they aren't getting infracted. Blizzard needs to pull this sites official fan site status because it has just become a cesspool of hate enabled by the very people who should be moderating that behavior.

[Infracted]

[nekobaka]

You are complaining that games are for everyone now? Well for one thing they always were but I'm more concerned with your attitude and belief that games are only for the elite. People like you are destroying communities one game at a time. Get out and stay out.

They are complaining that Blizzard chose a path of dilution of the game play experience resulting in a lack of depth resulting in an overall lower quality experience for everyone. They are concerned about content being fun for the players instead of it being just another tedious grind. Blizzard said it themselves that they cant please everyone. This means they cant try to shove everyone into one model and expect them to have fun. Different players are different and content designed for a wide variety of players gets diluted and stale. Games are not only for the elite and they did not say that. Players like you who jump the gun and apply your own biased hatred towards others who are different than them are destroying communities.

Get off your high horse before someone knocks you off.

Looks like you didnt take your own advice.

[xanzul]

Good Lord. The animosity shown towards players who continue to enjoy playing a game you do not.

Note: You too. Stay on-topic and don't derail threads. [ML]

How is this not on topic? It may be an unpopular sentiment around here but it is most certainly not off topic. To be honest the only thing that is derailing this thread are the mindless infractions over nothing.

[GhostSkull]

Wow is dumbed down for me, I'd thank you not to make a big deal about it.

[nyc81991]

Here's the thing. One of the reasons for Warcraft's massive success in Classic and BC was due to the fact that it was significantly easier, more forgiving, and more accessible than all of the other popular MMOs on the market. Anyone who played at the time and had experience with other MMOs like Everquest could tell you this.

That is why it has continued to simplify itself- because it worked, and because it was always Blizzard's design philosophy, from the very beginning. Whether this simplification is or is not one of the causes of the sub loss, or whether that is better attributed to the game's age, possibly outdated sub-to-play model, or the general popularity of MMOs right now, is all and only unproven and unprovable speculation.

It is true that WoW made a name for itself by being more accessible, However there is a point where things become too easy. WoW has kind of hit that point with LFR. Why wipe for hours on a raid boss that you can kill while spamming 1 button / afking in LFR?

[c0DZiLLa]

"Works well now, but if the game every does collapse, i assert that the kernels of that failure are being planted now"...What on earth are you even talking about? Haha!!! The only thing you have asserted in this sentence is the fact that you're brain is no bigger than a kernel... of corn.

[Normie]

What in WoW ever required major "smarts" anyway?

It's true, theorycraft takes some, but 99.999% of people aren't doing the theorycraft, they're using it. However, sims and optimization is something that is in the game now and really didn't exist before the game was "dumbed down."

Basically all the "smarts" the game has ever required is figuring out how to do a few things and when to do them, and in general, people learn that from reading/watching/listening to someone else.

[nekobaka]

It is true that WoW made a name for itself by being more accessible, However there is a point where things become too easy. WoW has kind of hit that point with LFR. Why wipe for hours on a raid boss that you can kill while spamming 1 button / afking in LFR?

At the same time why do dailies that are 100% reliant on the person pulling their own weight when a person can do LFR that rewards significantly better gear?

It's true, theorycraft takes some, but 99.999% of people aren't doing the theorycraft, they're using it. However, sims and optimization is something that is in the game now and really didn't exist before the game was "dumbed down."

There was complaints from players complaining about having to look outside of the game for strat guides for fights. Then Blizzard puts in dungeon journal and these players go, "I shouldnt have to read that." Its a no win, these players are just making excuses and continue to blame others. Blizzard even put in a basic spell priority guide in the spell journal that covers the basics. I used that for my warlock and didnt look at 3rd party guides and was sitting up there with the "raiders". I later looked up some of the guides and they lined up. The difference was the guides had more detail about situations that Blizzard would not want to clutter up their game with that can also change by patch.

Let's take bets on when the OP landed his first Ra-den kill.

Does it really mater when the time commitment requirement just to get to that point is out of reach of many? The vast majority of content that is accessible on a bases of time is quite trivial compared to the stuff oriented towards guilds and more so if you just count the stuff that provides character progression.

[Coffer]

Even if it was, why would it be a bad thing?

[Normie]

Even if it was, why would it be a bad thing?

Some people seem to think that "less grindy" means "dumber."

And I think, "WTF you are going on about."

[Abysal]

At the same time why do dailies that are 100% reliant on the person pulling their own weight when a person can do LFR that rewards significantly better gear?

Rep gear from dailies of the same raid tier are higher ilvl than LFR and have been the entire expansion. What is this "LFR that rewards significantly better gear" nonsense?

You can't compare 5.2 LFR to 5.0 Rep gear. You have to compare 5.0 Rep gear (489) to 5.0 LFR (476/484) and 5.2 Rep (522) to 5.2 LFR (502).

[Templar 331]

Strangely enough every new expansion WoW is simpler, dumbed down, etc.

Yes, Vanilla was so complex. I mean, you couldn't down any boss without a very thorough and complex strategy.

/sarcasm off

A need for class trainers is gone, because now one is magically gifted by a powerful God of some sort with new abilities.

It's called growth. People (characters in this case) grow in skill as they experience things.

There's no more joy of eagerly awaiting that spell you see in the list several levels ahead.

And why is this? Because you don't have to walk back to a trainer every other level to pay gold for an ability you already have just a higher level?

The mobs are pathetic, and the classes are overpowered in PvE. A low level character could easily take on 5 or 6 mobs before seeing any sign of difficulty in fighting them. What ever happened to having to be careful, actually working to complete a quest or dungeon?

After playing for 6 years, leveling through that difficult crap again would be annoying.

Spell tooltips showing you when to use your spells, how to use them and in what kind of scenario.

A lighting effect for when something procs is helpful. It beats having an add-on to do that.

Talent trees. Seriously, what is this? I feel like I am in a game for 6 year olds when I look at this. Could they have dumbed it down anymore? I feel like the next step is merely choosing what spec you want, and I expect that change to happen in a few months time.

And that's bad how? Why should we have cookie cutter specs again? Why should we have dozens or hundreds of points that mean little to nothing. Having choices for certain situations is a good idea.

Dungeons. Why must they show us where each and ever boss is?

Why not? What's the point in having random spawn points for bosses. You wouldn't be able to mana and heal up before the fight.

Raids. The LFR is a great example of this, instant gratification with absolutely no commitment required. No preparation required, no need to know what the bosses do, no nothing. Just go in, spam 3-4 buttons and you're done.

Have you even been playing WoW? Maybe if you were playing a mage I could possible see this.

In the end they are losing the quality players. The ones that can make it an amazing community, the ones who do not need their parents money to afford the game. The ones who I love to find in a guild and spend hours and hours playing with.

Rose tented glasses. The community is the same as it always has been. It's just the worst of the player base has more ways to be trolls.

I want a challenge, I want to have to think, I want that excitement back.

This and the rest of the post is total bull crap. If you want a challenge, go do a heroic raid. Or do arenas. I'm sure you've been playing for many years. Your just burned out. If you don't like this game because of the convenient features, stop playing. No one is holding your hand or putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play.

[Deleted]

Gotta love the deniers.

- warrior lost stance relying skills, no more stance dance with rage management
- class quests for special items/mounts removed (hunter,lock,pala,..)
- mobs are much easier, partying while questing is unneeded, partly also easier cause of heirlooms scaling better than quest rewards with character lvl
- rogues used to brew their poisons with a special profession, hunters used to have ammo, its nice having bag space but it also lost flair to the classes

theres probably more but what does it matter