Why was World of Warcraft dumbed down that much?

[ComputerNerd]

And people complain about the loss of an "RPG element".
What RPG element is that ?
Progression of a character where there are meaningful decisions which will have a lasting and permanent effect on the character and what they can and cannot access.
Reputation tanking can be reversed in many cases, you can change your race, faction, realm, professions, specialisation.
The only meaningful decision now is a single one, which class do you choose. And even then there is nothing to stop you rolling another character.

An MMO simply cannot offer an RPG experience when other players have to be seeing the same thing you do.
Single Player games offer a way better RPG experience, because the experience is yours only and not having to involve others at some other stage or with different decisions.

[Deleted]

So the only thing you strive for is to look different by having better gear?

Like it or not gear is a powerful incentive. That motivated a lot of players. Gear was unique and made players more powerful in all aspects of the game.

[Orange Joe]

Like it or not gear is a powerful incentive. That motivated a lot of players. Gear was unique and made players more powerful in all aspects of the game.

Gear is. Standing in front of the mailbox stroking your EPEEN isn't.

[Deleted]

Gear is. Standing in front of the mailbox stroking your EPEEN isn't.

Success should be rewarded. At the moment the game rewards failure far more than success and it sends the wrong message to people. It teaches them that they can fail their way to success.

but why is it so important to you that other people care about your accomplishments in a video game?

You do realise that you are asking that question on a video game forum right?

Gaming is a hobby like any other. Even if you don't see it that way that doesn't give you the right to take it away from others.

[Deleted]

The problem isnt player standing in front of the mailbox in full epics. The problem is people who were mad jealous at them. Look how they ruind the game now with their LFR and crap heroic dungeons.

I didn't play competitive in TBC, I had not a single problem with having shitty gear while some guys who did play a lot more than me were fully geared.

[Deleted]

Success should be rewarded. At the moment the game rewards failure far more than success and it sends the wrong message to people. It teaches them that they can fail their way to success.



You do realise that you are asking that question on a video game forum right?

Gaming is a hobby like any other. Even if you don't see it that way that doesn't give you the right to take it away from others.

then why does it matter that other people, especially and mostly strangers, care about your hobby?
to me gaming is even more than a hobby, and i put a lot of time and effort into video games and i always strive to get better and better at them, but i don't care what others think about my accomplishments, except for my close circle of friends who i play games with

[Orange Joe]

Success should be rewarded. At the moment the game rewards failure far more than success and it sends the wrong message to people. It teaches them that they can fail their way to success.



You do realise that you are asking that question on a video game forum right?

Gaming is a hobby like any other. Even if you don't see it that way that doesn't give you the right to take it away from others.

Success is rewarded. That is why you get the gear and achievements. I don't see how you figure Sitting afk so everyone can basque in your gloriousness is a reward.

No body but you cares about what you are wearing. When you realize this you can get back to having fun in a game.

---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 01:53 PM ----------

The problem isnt player standing in front of the mailbox in full epics. The problem is people who were mad jealous at them. Look how they ruind the game now with their LFR and crap heroic dungeons.

I didn't play competitive in TBC, I had not a single problem with having shitty gear while some guys who did play a lot more than me were fully geared.

But they were(the problem). Sitting there screaming "I'm better than you scrubs" doesn't help anything or make anything better. It didn't make people want to raid it made people hate them.

[Deleted]

The problem isnt player standing in front of the mailbox in full epics. The problem is people who were mad jealous at them. Look how they ruind the game now with their LFR and crap heroic dungeons.

I didn't play competitive in TBC, I had not a single problem with having shitty gear while some guys who did play a lot more than me were fully geared.

i agree with you on that matter, i was the same in tbc, i had fun playing the game and i did it without a single epic and the problem really are the people who care too much about other people having the same or better stuff than they have, but those people can be sadly found among the casual AND the hardcore players

[Tharkkun]

Yes game has been dumbed down, its just a fact.

-Outdoor elite mobs : deleted
-Failsafe talent trees
-Your rotation is in your spellbook
-Boss mechanics are in dungeon journal
-You can solo instances that are at your level or higher than your level depending on class
-Its impossible to die to 2 mobs while you could die to that before
-You dont need to socialize to do stuff, socials skills are only relevant for very high level of gaming
-You get your mounts for a very low price and faster than before
-You can get gold very easily even if you dont understand shit to the AH
-Raids are cleaned faster than before, even on heroic mode
-Dungeons are a faceroll aoe fest even at highest level
-CC is inexistant in dungeons and totally useless
-Being a good or a bad tank is the same thing, just mash aoe button and its ok, whereas tanking was hard when you couldn't AOE

Well the only argument wow fanboys will tell you is
-Heroics and challenge modes are harder

Well let me tell you this
Heroics and challenges modes are a low % of the game content. Basically everything is dumbed down to mentally challenged level except those two things (PVP is another matter). CHallenge isnt that difficult either, you can do it with 4ppl you know.

Well on the heroicraid matter. YOu know players were a lot worse back then right? We had very few theorycrafting, very few boss guides, horrible items, horrible gearing progression (2 loots for 40ppl each boss?). So yea MC was basically very easy mechanics-wise, but it took a LOT more time to clean it than to clean a heroic raid. Hell my memory might be inexact but I have the feeling I raided that instance for 5+months before killing rag. Killing heroic nefa ? Idk i think it was 6 weeks?
Then people always laugh at MC mechanics, but .. you know it wasnt the only pre-bc raid right? Altho bwl had loot pinata bosses (the drakes..), vael, razorgore, chromma or nefa were tough as hell, hence why vael was named the guild breaker. Well anyway you didnt play Vanilla so , too bad for you really, you missed the best video game ever made. But its not my problem.

So, to sum up.
Game has been dumbed down.
Heroic raid or challenge mode dont change that fact.
Game was better during pre-bc and tbc, if you dont agree : 1/you didnt play back then 2/you were one of the guys that didnt raid because you were useless
I still enjoy PVP and running old content with twinks so I still play the game nonetheless.

Less people leveling in the world (aka new players) equals not enough players to kill elite mobs so group quests were eliminated. Why would they keep quests that you had to kill once you had outleveled the zone?
Failsafe Talents? You mean making talents mean something instead of googling Frost Mage spec and clicking the buttons? There was no skill in talent selection.
The spellbook is a guide. Optimal character play is based on research and skill.
Boss Mechanics are in DBM. They also appear on 15 different websites before the patch even goes live. Dungeon Journal keeps players in game rather than searching 3rd party websites.

Whether you choose to socialize in a 5man, scenario, bg, etc is your issue. No one forces me to socialize in real life either or post on this forum. I choose to interact.
Mounts: Eliminated a gold sink which directly screws the gold selling market. Win Win.
Same thing for gold being made easier. With gold more easily obtainable it discourages people from buying gold.

Raids are cleared at approximately the same rate. Cata got a slow start do the the holidays but other than that it's roughly the same. In WOTLK there were limited attempts to curb tossing your face at a boss for 12 hours straight but the average is still 3-4 weeks.

[slime]

The problem isnt player standing in front of the mailbox in full epics. The problem is people who were mad jealous at them. Look how they ruind the game now with their LFR and crap heroic dungeons.

I didn't play competitive in TBC, I had not a single problem with having shitty gear while some guys who did play a lot more than me were fully geared.

No. The problem is the player standing ontop of the mailbox with some huge mount. That is the problem.

[Philosopino]

the players dumbed down to much and the developers followed.

[swagster]

No body but you cares about what you are wearing. When you realize this you can get back to having fun in a game.[COLOR=red]

You definitely care, look how defensive you are about LFR. You're afraid of people devaluing and diminishing LFR and you, because your ego is fragile. You care about what real raiders are wearing, this is why you defend LFR and the welfare gear it gives, because you want your gear to be as good as theirs.

But let me tell you something: People who put absolutely no effort into their character (you) shouldn't be wearing raid gear, it devalues it.

[Deleted]

then why does it matter that other people, especially and mostly strangers, care about your hobby?
to me gaming is even more than a hobby, and i put a lot of time and effort into video games and i always strive to get better and better at them, but i don't care what others think about my accomplishments, except for my close circle of friends who i play games with

Effort should be rewarded otherwise it becomes pointless and everyone rots away.

If people have nothing to strive for then there's nothing to bring them together.

Success is rewarded.

No it's not. Not like it was in vanilla, TBC and Wrath. People are running around in gear they don't deserve thinking they are awesome.

They should strive to be better and that requires incentives, but there are no real incentives anymore. Plus cosmetic gear doesn't make you more powerful like high end gear did in the past.

Remind yourself how much success is rewarded the next time you see someone in a tiered set they got by afking in LFR.

[Tharkkun]

Most players have nothing left to strive for because they are content with LFR. If you can't see how that killed the game then I can't help you.

I didn't need to spam trade chat because I had friends that I made by being social and good.

Everyone has different goals they wish to achieve in a *video game*. Some people just want to see the content they are paying $15 a month for. Others want a solid challenge. Yet others live for the competition of being first. Forcing people to care about challenging content will only drive them away from the game. If it truly interests them, they will do it.

[Tharkkun]

You definitely care, look how defensive you are about LFR. You're afraid of people devaluing and diminishing LFR and you, because your ego is fragile. You care about what real raiders are wearing, this is why you defend LFR and the welfare gear it gives, because you want your gear to be as good as theirs.

But let me tell you something: People who put absolutely no effort into their character (you) shouldn't be wearing raid gear, it devalues it.

Why is this? Because you (a single $15 a month subscriber) says so? Earth to swagster but you are exactly the person Ghostcrawler refers to in his tweets. Worry about yourself and not what others are doing.

[Chrysia]

It is true that WoW made a name for itself by being more accessible, However there is a point where things become too easy. WoW has kind of hit that point with LFR. Why wipe for hours on a raid boss that you can kill while spamming 1 button / afking in LFR?

You mean just like people did all the time in Vanilla? There's even video evidence of it.

[Orange Joe]

You definitely care, look how defensive you are about LFR. You're afraid of people devaluing and diminishing LFR and you, because your ego is fragile. You care about what real raiders are wearing, this is why you defend LFR and the welfare gear it gives, because you want your gear to be as good as theirs.

But let me tell you something: People who put absolutely no effort into their character (you) shouldn't be wearing raid gear, it devalues it.

NO you are getting this backwards. I don't care what you are wearing. I do care that you are trying to take content away from people.


I don't even really run lfr. I haven't run any of them much more than 4-5 times. I raid normal modes. I defend LFR because it is content for people to do.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rlock/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...eenny/advanced


BTW can we see your armory link?

[Deleted]

Effort should be rewarded otherwise it becomes pointless and everyone rots away.

If people have nothing to strive for then there's nothing to bring them together.



No it's not. Not like it was in vanilla, TBC and Wrath. People are running around in gear they don't deserve thinking they are awesome.

They should strive to be better and that requires incentives, but there are no real incentives anymore. Plus cosmetic gear doesn't make you more powerful like high end gear did in the past.

Remind yourself how much success is rewarded the next time you see someone in a tiered set they got by afking in LFR.

well blizzard said they are going to introduce rewards that will be exclusive to flex/normal/hc raids, so we'll see how that turns out
and i agree, effort should be rewarded, but at the same time, people that get rewarded for said effort shouldn't rub it in other people's faces
and if i remember correctly, there were people in raid gear who didn't do any raids in wrath already, because you could buy raid gear with emblems that dropped in heroics

[Jtbrig7390]

"The worlds BEST MMORPG" has turned into "The worlds EASIEST and most accommodating MMORPG".

I hate to bust your bubble but wow has always been the worlds most casual/easy mmorpg "or at lease in the top 5" even back in vanilla and tbc.

That was one of its major selling points if you ever think wow was hard go play original everquest. over time yes they did make things a bit more easy'er to do but there is nothing wrong with that people pay to play a game not pay to bash there head into a wall.

Blizzard learned if people are not having fun people they will unsub its as simple as that. One thing people did not take into account with subs is that in Vanilla/TBC/Wrath there was people leaving but also new people coming in therefor you didn't see the sub drops. Now in Cata/Mop you see the sub drops because barely anyone is coming in. The mmo market is so huge now all the players are spaced across many mmo's and with B2p/F2p mmo's getting better people are finding it hard to pay 15$ a month on a mmo.

[ComputerNerd]

Effort should be rewarded otherwise it becomes pointless and everyone rots away.

If people have nothing to strive for then there's nothing to bring them together.



No it's not. Not like it was in vanilla, TBC and Wrath. People are running around in gear they don't deserve thinking they are awesome.

They should strive to be better and that requires incentives, but there are no real incentives anymore. Plus cosmetic gear doesn't make you more powerful like high end gear did in the past.

Remind yourself how much success is rewarded the next time you see someone in a tiered set they got by afking in LFR.

And what gear is deserved, what makes you good enough to decide what other people do or do not deserve.

If you can do better content, you can earn better gear.
You can inspect gear to determine its source, there even being a bit of text telling you exactly which difficulty it came from.
So cut out that rubbish about LFR, because it is not like we can hide that fact.

You might have a point but understand that an MMO cannot be designed as a single player game. In that traditional setting I can see the "dumb down" part making sence but that was not how the game was consived or how it evolved either. So you can walk in 7 years after the fact and demmand an MMO with millions of users to be designed as a single player game. That doesnt relate.

It is nothing to do with being designed as a single-player game, but allowing for the fact that other people do not always have the same wants, same level of skill, same time available such that there has to be content available, and no small amount for the time that there simply are not other people available who can choose to group up with you for something at a specific time, at short notice.

The more experienced a player is, the more they complain about content NOT aimed at them, content that they know a load about, about levelling content which has repeatedly had a raised level cap, and would only penalise newer players should it not be of a similar overall difficulty from start to finish each expansion.

If you must complain about the difficulty, then do so for the end-game content, the cutting edge content when it is current.
The heroic difficulty of raiding, challenge modes, high-ranked arena matches/rated battleground and depending on how it works out, maybe even Proving Grounds.
Do not comment on the difficulty of content that you are above, since that is simply unfair, biased and can never be anything but.