Texas senator Wendy Davis stands for women's rights - literally

[apepi]

who cares if there's a heartbeat, killing isn't innately wrong

We do it all the time to animals

I wonder this, people do not give a shit if they kill a plant or bug or cattle but if they dare kill something that is not even 100% living, how horrible?

No. What does a heartbeat has to do with being alive?

It's not alive until it can survive without being a physical biological parasite: the point of fetal viability.

Are parasites considered living to you? Like leeches?

[obdigore]

Correction on heartbeat start point accepted. Would you grant that something with a heartbeat at, say, 8 weeks constitutes being alive?

Alive and human are two different things. Unless you don't kill spiders, don't eat meat, and don't do a bunch of other things.

imo it should be sentience that is the breakpoint, which is somewhere after 6 months post birth. But I know that opinion is going to get your knickers in a twist, so w/e.

[Underverse]

Alive and human are two different things. Unless you don't kill spiders, don't eat meat, and don't do a bunch of other things.

imo it should be sentience that is the breakpoint, which is somewhere after 6 months post birth. But I know that opinion is going to get your knickers in a twist, so w/e.

Sentience?

But then we can kill retarded people, dolphins, etc and it would be moral. Oh, and people with things like alzheimer's. Also, you;d have to define sentience, which is really really hard to do

[Angella]

Alive and human are two different things. Unless you don't kill spiders, don't eat meat, and don't do a bunch of other things.

imo it should be sentience that is the breakpoint, which is somewhere after 6 months post birth. But I know that opinion is going to get your knickers in a twist, so w/e.

Honestly at least you're willing to pin-point when the fetus is to be defined as sufficiently human to be entitled to basic human protections. Very few vocal pro-choice types will concede even that much.

[Underverse]

No. What does a heartbeat has to do with being alive?

It's not alive (in the human sense) until it can survive without being a physical biological parasite: the point of fetal viability.

Hey look a good argument

I would say, though, that the definition of 'person' is an individual organism belonging to H. sapiens. Which, obviously until the cord is cut, the fetus is not

[apepi]

They are fixing to announce that it is dead...for the time being.

[obdigore]

Sentience?

But then we can kill retarded people, dolphins, etc and it would be moral. Oh, and people with things like alzheimer's. Also, you;d have to define sentience, which is really really hard to do

We've had this discussion before, it really isn't. I'm not going to do this with you again Quetzl.

[Zangeiti]

Correction on heartbeat start point accepted. Would you grant that something with a heartbeat at, say, 8 weeks constitutes being alive?

I dont think its anything alive unless it has a fully functional brain and a heart beat and at their state of being they arent even human and there brain cant learn anything.

[Underverse]

We've had this discussion before, it really isn't. I'm not going to do this with you again Quetzl.

uh ok I think you're thinking of someone else

[Tastyfish]

WHo the fuck cares about Is it just cells or is it a human.
Thing is, if you shut down all these freaking clinics, your kids are going to do dumb shit to cause an abortion or do it in mexico.
Are you all ok with that? You ok with a kid being pushed down stairs cause that the only way they can deal with a pregancy or using "herbal methods" ...
Better in a clinic then in your bathtub.


You people care about these unborn things so much but your more then willing to allow the verified human carrying whatever it is to go threw extreme shit just to eject it.. lol wat?

[obdigore]

WHo the fuck cares about Is it just cells or is it a human.
Thing is, if you shut down all these freaking clinics, your kids are going to do dumb shit to cause an abortion or do it in mexico.
Are you all ok with that? You ok with a kid being pushed down stairs cause that the only way they can deal with a pregancy or using "herbal methods" ...
Better in a clinic then in your bathtub.

That is really the biggest point. Do you want your 17 year old pregnant daughter (hooray for abstinence only educaton!) to go a wire hanger up her vagina in an alley so she can abort and lead to the future inability to conceive or even death, or would you rather have professionals do it in the safest way possible?

[apepi]

The official vote is said to be recorded at 12:03.

[Angella]

Yes but when the fetus has developed to a point that it CAN survive as an individual organism, it should be entitled to protection. Nobody thinks it is permissible to kill a bay that is still attached with a cord.

As much as Republicans like Angella clearly likes to pretend we do.

Actually, like Republicans, Democrats have their nut-job activists too. I've had more discussions than I care to count where the Democratic position is the fetus is a person when the mother says it's a person.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Lt. Governor said the bill didn't make it.

[Tastyfish]

That is really the biggest point. Do you want your 17 year old pregnant daughter (hooray for abstinence only educaton!) to go a wire hanger up her vagina in an alley so she can abort and lead to the future inability to conceive or even death, or would you rather have professionals do it in the safest way possible?

What will happen is, people will get turned on to a pill, prob psych meds that taken in a large dose can cause chemical induced abortion, and you will have these kids risking their health under the radar so they have a chance at a precieved better, babyless future.. We will start to see braindamaged, overdosing and all kids of internal drama that leads to death, and people will wonder why, and strengthen drug policey... lol

[Angella]

This is why Republicans are not pro-life. They are pro-having-pregnant-women-kill-or-seriously-harm-themselves-in-unsafe-ways.

Really? I mean if you want to be a troll I can go to sleep.

Infracted.

[Snes]

People really need to start using condoms in North America, wouldn't run into this issue in the first place.

[Sj]

People really need to start using condoms in North America, wouldn't run into this issue in the first place.

It doesn't help that there's such a dichotomy on sexual views; you have the puritanical outlook, then entertainment media using it to sell us cell phones and keep our youth glued to the television while making it seem like sex never has any bad consequences. There has to be better sex education than "don't do it until you're married."

[Angella]

Actually, unlike Republicans, these so-called Democrats that only exists in the straws of Republicans, aren't proposing bills left right and centre to support any such thing.

I still can't stop chuckling about how you think most pro-choice activists don't believe fetuses becomes protected at any point, when anyone with an objective mind would have known that the vast majority supported the existing constitutional guidelines/principles.

How did you go from "Democrat nut-job activists" to "most pro-choice activists?" HUGE DIFFERENCE. 80%+ of people live in the middle between all out pro-choice and all out pro-life, including me. I've feigned at a reasonable discussion but obviously the internet is no place to make an attempt. I bid you all a good night. Have fun agreeing with each other.

[loganroth51]

Lt. Governor said the bill didn't make it.

I am seeing this said as well, very good news!