5.4, hunters in PvE - concerns, etc.

[Deleted]

What im hoping to see is better stat scalling i would love to see hunter dots(Black arrow,Serpent sting,Explosive shot)Actually benefit from haste that would fix a lot of issues and make hunters scale better from tier to tier.

[Dracodraco]

What im hoping to see is better stat scalling i would love to see hunter dots(Black arrow,Serpent sting,Explosive shot)Actually benefit from haste that would fix a lot of issues and make hunters scale better from tier to tier.

Not going to happen without a total rework of hunters, which defeats the purpose.
Consider this - if Surv is already "very close" to BM in terms of damage, scaling with dots would make surv pull miles ahead.
And consider: Haste is already the strongest stat or both hunter specs, in full BiS with RPPM gear. We'd be downgrading items to get haste, using yellow haste gems in gear etc with dot scaling for surv. For BM, it'd almost make no difference as we only have the sort-of-weak serpent sting.

[Saoron]

any news on the 'compensation' yet ?

[re1gn1te]

Forget the pet pathing problems.

As of right now the only reason to bring a hunter in 5.4 (as it stands) is for the agi mail loot.

Im 546 ilvl...the scaling is astroucious

That's still not a reason, as you can bring an enh shaman : better dps and much better utility.

[Tehstool]

any news on the 'compensation' yet ?

They haven't done their number passes yet.

[bewsh]

any news on the 'compensation' yet ?

yeah your compensation is coming in the form of tier set bonuses and the new "readiness" trinkets

[Kaeth]

any news on the 'compensation' yet ?

They haven't done their number passes yet.

So you're not holding out much hope for mechanics changes either, eh? Here's to an overhaul in 6.0, but not placing any bets on that, either.

[Tehstool]

So you're not holding out much hope for mechanics changes either, eh? Here's to an overhaul in 6.0, but not placing any bets on that, either.

They haven't done their number passes yet as in they are still working on mechanic changes.

[Deleted]

Has there been any word on how the new legendary cloak will work out for hunters?

As I understand it, we're meant to take the agi "physical dps" one but I'm suspicious that the proc will only have ~8yd range on it and thus will be useless to us.

It wouldn't be the first phys dps item designed where the devs completely forgot hunters existed. There's quite a list of trinkets to which the same can be said.

[Deleted]

Not going to happen without a total rework of hunters, which defeats the purpose.
Consider this - if Surv is already "very close" to BM in terms of damage, scaling with dots would make surv pull miles ahead.
And consider: Haste is already the strongest stat or both hunter specs, in full BiS with RPPM gear. We'd be downgrading items to get haste, using yellow haste gems in gear etc with dot scaling for surv. For BM, it'd almost make no difference as we only have the sort-of-weak serpent sting.

Yeah but imo this class requires better stat scalling either its haste or crit or w/e.For instance look at fire mages their scalling with crit is insane,Arcane has insane scalling from tier to tier aswell.

[Poppincaps]

Lore shared some of the hunter changes in a recent post. Seems like they are going to be buffing Stampede (at least for PvE). Making our signature shots do more damage, so we use them over Arcane Shot (doesn't seem like they are going to be nerfing Arcane Shot ). They also think our overall dps is fine and the problem is a few "outliers" AKA Warlocks and Mages. Also, they are still trying to figure out what the final verdict will be on Readiness.

[Bullettime]

Finally got somewhere in the thread. Can see the fruits of our labors on the blue tracker.

[mistahwilshire]

Has there been any word on how the new legendary cloak will work out for hunters?

As I understand it, we're meant to take the agi "physical dps" one but I'm suspicious that the proc will only have ~8yd range on it and thus will be useless to us.

It wouldn't be the first phys dps item designed where the devs completely forgot hunters existed. There's quite a list of trinkets to which the same can be said.

Where did you get the info that it's only an 8 yard range? If it wasn't an official source then I wouldn't put any stock in to it.

[Dracodraco]

Lore shared some of the hunter changes in a recent post. Seems like they are going to be buffing Stampede (at least for PvE). Making our signature shots do more damage, so we use them over Arcane Shot (doesn't seem like they are going to be nerfing Arcane Shot ). They also think our overall dps is fine and the problem is a few "outliers" AKA Warlocks and Mages. Also, they are still trying to figure out what the final verdict will be on Readiness.

Actually, they didn't say that our DPS was "fine". They said, and I quote: As to overall Hunter performance and utility, we don’t think the issues are with the Hunter class specifically.So... That is hunter DPS, and utility - meaning both the fact that we're mediocre in damage and we're one of three classes without a raid CD.
Now, atleast they admit that some of the other classes are overperforming on both the utility and damage side of this (Shamans, Rogues, warlocks utility/survivability etc has been nerfed to a great extent so they're probably OK, Boomkins etc) - if they're going to bring all the DPS down to our level, then fine. I'll be sort of happy. But I still think it's dumb as fuck that they think that giving Enhancement shamans and elemental shamans ANOTHER raid cooldown to go with the two they already HAVE. I mean... Really?
The arms race means that it's not okay for hunters to get a raid CD to give us a perma spot, but giving Shamans three of them is A-okay? I mean... Warriors have been so severely lacking in damage + utility because they were melee, that them having demo+skull banner and rallying cry was "justified" - we still had to sit them on progress because they lacked personal sustainability and damage. But this? Eh, fuck'd if I know anymore to be honest, my brain hurts >___<.


What scares me the most is the fact that Blizzard doesn't seem to realise that the 12-target raid cooldowns are FRIGHTINGLY powerfull now. If you ever popped a tranq in 10 man as a boomkin and saw how the raid just got topped off, then you know what I mean - how can a hunter compete with a boomkin that has an "I will save the raid"-button, completly negating an entire damage-burst phase like Meg's rampage? Now they're giving the same to shamans (who, as mentioned, already has AG/Stormlash), and shadow priests also had their VE severely buffed. Blizzard has yet to see how this works out in a progress scenario, because all the guilds that this involves (the top 50 or so) finished with progress by the time the buffs came out.

Also, last but not least - is it a joke that they're giving rogues our only unique utility -.-?

[Hayro1]

Also, last but not least - is it a joke that they're giving rogues our only unique utility -.-?

Exactly what I thought, but again - like I said - ours will still be better due to instant 3 stacks and no resource cost. But it is STILL stupid.

[Sarthed]

Our current situation reminds me back to T11 when warriors were complaining about their class and Blizzard just patched in a completely unique raid wide CD in 4.1 (a minipatch). However, we've gone through mediocrity since t14 launched without any additions short of the same band-aids they've been throwing on since t13.
And with this recent blue post, it feels more of a slap in the face than anything. Stampede changed again to actually do damage like it used to? No readiness updates yet, then they just repeat the same shit they've been saying since Cata. I feel like if they'd actually listen to the posts, they'd really just add in an unique raid CD and be done with it.
I'm just hoping I don't have to question maining hunter again with t16.

[Dracodraco]

Our current situation reminds me back to T11 when warriors were complaining about their class and Blizzard just patched in a completely unique raid wide CD in 4.1 (a minipatch). However, we've gone through mediocrity since t14 launched without any additions short of the same band-aids they've been throwing on since t13.
And with this recent blue post, it feels more of a slap in the face than anything. Stampede changed again to actually do damage like it used to? No readiness updates yet, then they just repeat the same shit they've been saying since Cata. I feel like if they'd actually listen to the posts, they'd really just add in an unique raid CD and be done with it.
I'm just hoping I don't have to question maining hunter again with t16.

Well, to add fuel to the fire, remember the fact that rogues weren't "represented enough", so they got a free raid cooldown with smoke bomb this tier. Not a mini patch, granted, but still. I'd be willing to bet on there being more rogues on "first kills" this tier in the top 100 than hunters, even though melee "sucks" as always.

[Perrito]

Exactly what I thought, but again - like I said - ours will still be better due to instant 3 stacks and no resource cost. But it is STILL stupid.

still rogues dont need more utility

[Sarthed]

Well, to add fuel to the fire, remember the fact that rogues weren't "represented enough", so they got a free raid cooldown with smoke bomb this tier. Not a mini patch, granted, but still. I'd be willing to bet on there being more rogues on "first kills" this tier in the top 100 than hunters, even though melee "sucks" as always.

Forgot about smoke bomb since the damage reduction was just tacked onto another CD. I think one of the big problems hunters suffer from is not being able to do that with our defensives, considering all we have is Detter. To really help us out, they have to think up something completely new, which everyone knows Blizzard doesn't like to do for us.

[mistahwilshire]

I was thinking of things they could give us as a raid CD that would be unique and useful and I had an idea for a cool sort of trap that would allow all casters to cast anything they have on the move and extended the range on all of melees attacks 8-10ish yards for 30 seconds while in a 25-40 yard area.

Obviously some random arbitrary numbers there but I think it's a cool concept. As THE class that's only unique aspect is full DPS while on the move, it makes sense to me that a raid CD for us would allow us to temporarily share that with the rest of the group. I guess it doesn't have to be a trap but I figured trap launching was the most sensible way to deploy such a thing similar to Stormlash totem.

I could see something like this being quite nice and desirable on fights with heavy movement phases/transitions and I don't think it's particularly overpowered. Though I do think some sort of debuff would have to be applied so you couldn't stack like 4-5 Hunters and let a bunch of Warlocks and Boomkins go to town.