5.4, hunters in PvE - concerns, etc.

[Glurp]

My main issue currently is that they still haven't done anything about KC damage so the top Hunter spec for next tier could be Arcane Shot spam.

[Noctifer616]

My main issue currently is that they still haven't done anything about KC damage so the top Hunter spec for next tier could be Arcane Shot spam.

They haven't done anything to compensate the removal of Readiness either. They only have done mechanics changes so far, we still have to wait a bit for number tweaking.

[Deleted]

I like that they were about to nerf Fire but reverted all the changes in a heartbeat even though fire is like, the top simcraft single target dps simming 50k higher than BM not to mention http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/. I miss the MOP Beta days, when BM dps was broken around where fire is right now in comparison to other classes.

[Beoren]

We are not casters, we are physical dps, hence why our dots don't scale with haste. Same goes for rogues, their dots do not scale with haste.

Then they could do other things, there are a lot of ways to go - Raise the value of Mastery?? Make Auto shot crit for 50% more dmg - that would make haste and crit scale better.. you get the idea but its not that important for them thats why you get x% AP buff every tier easy way to keep hunters quiet for 4-5 months...

[Larry01]

We are not casters, we are physical dps, hence why our dots don't scale with haste. Same goes for rogues, their dots do not scale with haste.

I understand what your saying but I think all Beoren was trying to say is that they should do something and is throwing out ideas. There is nothing wrong with having haste effect dots or whatever. It would take some retooling sure, but something needs to be done thats for sure.

I love the idea put forward to make SV a multi dot class by adding another dot shot, taking the CD off Black Arrow and having them all scale with haste.

My point is just because something isnt being done or hasnt been done a certain way doesnt mean that it cant.

[Vvulf]

My main issue currently is that they still haven't done anything about KC damage so the top Hunter spec for next tier could be Arcane Shot spam.

I raised this same point in the thread that Lore was responding to. At level 60, hunters will have no "meaningful" choice. Thrill of the Hunt will be so far ahead of the other talents, it won't matter what spec you choose for PvE, you'll be spamming Arcane Shot. The only question really will be which spec buffs your Arcane Shot best ... will the haste from MM be best, the lowered cost of shots during Bestial Wrath, or perhaps the mastery of SV.

[Kaeth]

AP increases the damage of all our abilities. So how exactly doesn't a buff to AoTH improve our scaling? A buff to AoTH increases the amount of AP we get from gear, thus making gear we have now better, and making better gear even more better.

Do you mind explaining what exactly you mean with scaling? Because I don't think you understand the word.

They constantly must increase the % multiplier to our AP through AotH because hunters scale horribly with secondary stats, while other top-performing dps specs scale exponentially. So instead of trying out mechanics that will improve our haste/crit/mastery scaling, they just continue to make AGI even more dominant with each band-aid fix.

That's the scaling problem.

[Deleted]

Is it just me or T16 will be mastery dominating tier for agility mail users?

[Deleted]

make Crit more valuable like 'When you Crit with Auto-shot you gain 5 focus for you and your pet' (i think Rogues have something similar)

Like Go for the Throat ? :P

Maybe Cobra Strikes, Invigoration and similar could scale with crit though.

[Deleted]

MM has in-built crit booster, yet, people are complaining not even this spec can utilize secondary stats like other classes.

[Deleted]

MM has in-built crit booster, yet, people are complaining not even this spec can utilize secondary stats like other classes.

Careful Aim also lowers the value of crit. Granted it's only for however long you are attacking a target above 80% health, but it still lowers the average value over a whole fight.

[Deleted]

It does, but, just to be sure, I was talking about 30% extra bleed damage on crit.

IMHO, Careful Aim should be active CD and increase crit damage not chance.

[Deleted]

It does, but, just to be sure, I was talking about 30% extra bleed damage on crit.

Yup I'm aware of that, I was merely making a point that Careful Aim will somewhat offset the value of crit's value from Piercing Shots.

IMHO, Careful Aim should be active CD and increase crit damage not chance.

I would be okay with that.
While I like Marksmanship's current mastery I wouldn't mind seeing it changed to +crit damage or something in that region. But I guess that would be very awkward because it would mean one of our stats depends on another stat. The math required to deal with breakpoints and stuff would probably be complicated as well.

[Deleted]

While I like Marksmanship's current mastery I wouldn't mind seeing it changed to +crit damage or something in that region. But I guess that would be very awkward because it would mean one of our stats depends on another stat. The math required to deal with breakpoints and stuff would probably be complicated as well.

Not really. You have the very same situation in Diablo. You usually want to aim for 10:1 - damage : chance. And like in WoW, you still have AS as third offensive stat. On every single class synergy between "secondary DPS" stat is so well, items with crit dmg, crit chance and AS are having sky high prices.

[Deleted]

Not really. You have the very same situation in Diablo. You usually want to aim for 10:1 - damage : chance. And like in WoW, you still have AS as third offensive stat. On every single class synergy between "secondary DPS" stat is so well, items with crit dmg, crit chance and AS are having sky high prices.

We probably aren't going to be dealing with 500%+ crit damage in World of Warcraft though (as awesome as 1.5 mil Kill Shots would sound). And if my memory serves me right, several abilities in Diablo also have effects or runes which makes those abilities deal even more additional damage on top of crits with would push a number like 500%+ crit damage even higher.

On the other hand, with mostly crit/haste gear all reforged and gemmed for haste I'm sitting on about 40% crit chance in a raid. Considering my crit is this high without already aiming for it I suppose this potential mastery would be the way to go.

But this is starting to go slightly off-topic I guess.

[Deleted]

Sorry to bring that again but it seems I'm the only one worrying about it: we need to raise the deterrence system issue.

On the ptr, once you've used the 2 charges we will only have 1 deterrence every 3 min (2 I guess with the talent)
That's a big nerf of our survivability.

I ve already twitted GC twice about it (but no answer obviously) and I'm worried it won't be fixed if we don't make more noise (like mages and warlock who got their nerfa reverted in a few hours...)

[Noctifer616]

I ve already twitted GC twice about it (but no answer obviously) and I'm worried it won't be fixed if we don't make more noise (like mages and warlock who got their nerfa reverted in a few hours...)

GC isn't in the office, so you better make a post on the official forums.

[Deleted]

You don't really understand how charge system works. Like I said in one thread somewhere on this sub-forum.

If the ability is used (by boss) every (e.g.) 45 seconds, in 10 minute fight, the same number of damage will be blocked as on live (det+CTHC). If the ability is used on 1 min CD or longer, older Det is stronger. However, ATM, on PTR CTHC is not working, so when they fix it, new Deterrence might end up even stronger (adding one charge or reducing CD by 1 min).

EDIT: I actually do fear that charge system might be scrapped due to people who don't understand it whine about it. I'd rather have 2 charges with 3 min CD then "normal" 1.5min CD.

[Deleted]

I DO understand how it works.
Thank you.

But apperently you don't as with an ability every 45sec on a 10 min fight assuming CHTC will reduce the cd of detterence by 1 min, you will be able to use the new deterrence only 6 times vs 7 times on live. (For my computation the first ability to soak is a t+45sec and the last one at t+ 585 as no boss uses a spell to soak at t+0)

If the cd of the ability is 1min it s even worse: 6 times on ptr, 10 times on live

Same if the cd is 30 sec: 6 times on ptr, 10 times on live

And if the cd if 1:30 min: 5 times on ptr, 6 times on live

How is it not a nerf.

The only upside is if you have to soak 2 abilities in less than 1 min and then nothing for 4 min (and you get your 2 charges back)

[Deleted]

You don't really understand how charge system works. Like I said in one thread somewhere on this sub-forum.

If the ability is used (by boss) every (e.g.) 45 seconds, in 10 minute fight, the same number of damage will be blocked as on live (det+CTHC). If the ability is used on 1 min CD or longer, older Det is stronger. However, ATM, on PTR CTHC is not working, so when they fix it, new Deterrence might end up even stronger (adding one charge or reducing CD by 1 min).

EDIT: I actually do fear that charge system might be scrapped due to people who don't understand it whine about it. I'd rather have 2 charges with 3 min CD then "normal" 1.5min CD.

Only one charge recharges at a time. Let's say you have 2 charges with a 3min CD. You use both at the start. 3mins later, will you have 1 or 2 charges? You will have ONE.
5mins 50 seconds later, will you have one or two charges? You will have ONE, but the second one being ready in 10 seconds.


You don't really understand how charge system works.