Supreme Court Decides on DOMA

[Felya]

we use ceremonies for everything deemed important - awarding a medal, changes of power, etc. major/important weddings without religion would still merit ceremony

Yeah, all of it comes with cultural and faith based traditions. Something that isn't regulated by government. A celebration involved in a communion, can legally be attended by anyone who is not baptized. Government has no baring on how you celebrate a wedding.

[Wikiy]

That's not true. You can have a wedding, without a marriage license.

Then that's really a fake wedding and doesn't signify anything.

[smelltheglove]

Then that's really a fake wedding and doesn't signify anything.

significance is a subjective thing in this case

[Felya]

Then that's really a fake wedding and doesn't signify anything.

Fake? What do you mean by fake? It signifies the union of two people. What is fake about it?

[smelltheglove]

Fake? What do you mean by fake? It signifies the union of two people. What is fake about it?

i suspect he is only accounting for legalities, and dismissing the personal importance

[Reeve]

Fake? What do you mean by fake? It signifies the union of two people. What is fake about it?

I think he means it's not a legal contract. It may be significant to the people getting married, but it has no effect on their legal standing.

[Felya]

i suspect he is only accounting for legalities, and dismissing the personal importance

Marriage has legal binding, weddings do not. All weddings are fake, as far as legal binding. That's why there are no unique marriage licenses, but unique weddings. Marriage has specific judicial criteria, wedding can be performed by people dressed like teletubies.

[Kraenen]

the whole getting married thing is a sham anyways. i wish the government would just get rid of marriage altogether.

[Felya]

I think he means it's not a legal contract. It may be significant to the people getting married, but it has no effect on their legal standing.

The argument that religion or faith has any baring on marriage is fake, because they are talking about weddings. Because a wedding has nothing to do with a license. A wedding without a marriage license is not fake, basing the legality of marriage on ceremonies is a concept that is fake.

---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 09:50 PM ----------

the whole getting married thing is a sham anyways. i wish the government would just get rid of marriage altogether.

I don't necessarily agree. There is plenty of benefit in encouraging people to pair up.

[Endus]

Fake? What do you mean by fake? It signifies the union of two people. What is fake about it?

If it isn't a legal marriage, it isn't a real marriage. It has as much relevance and importance as when your 6 year old daughter "marries" her teddy bear. Having a ceremony doesn't make it real.

That doesn't mean people can't have a fun party, but a marriage that isn't legal basically amounts to a declaration that you're going steady. There's no legal bearing. If you aren't legally married, you get no tax breaks. If your "spouse's" name is on the house, they don't need to divorce you; they just need to change the locks and call the cops to have you arrested if you won't leave them alone. If they become ill, you cannot visit your "spouse" at the hospital, and have no authority to make end-of-life decisions.

That's why we're saying it's not real. It carries no rights or privileges. It's like a christening; if you christen your child one name, but filled out their birth certificate with another, whatever you christened them with is not their name. It doesn't matter if it has personal meaning, since the entire point of these kinds of ceremonies is to communicate that meaning to others.

By this same token, you can "marry" your toaster. Whether that has personal meaning to you or not is irrelevant; you aren't actually married to your toaster.

[Felya]

If it isn't a legal marriage, it isn't a real marriage. It has as much relevance and importance as when your 6 year old daughter "marries" her teddy bear. Having a ceremony doesn't make it real.

I'm talking about weddings. What makes a fake wedding?

Legal binding is what defines marriage. The wedding that takes place in a church is defined by the church. Wedding and marriage are not the same thing and every plea to define marriage in a religious ceremony is a lie appealing to emotions.

That's the very point I am trying to (failing) make. The reason a wedding is 'fake' is only because government is what defines marriage, not the church it's performed in. As in, religion has nothing to do with marriage. Religion is tied to weddings, not marriage.

---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 12:02 AM ----------

By this same token, you can "marry" your toaster. Whether that has personal meaning to you or not is irrelevant; you aren't actually married to your toaster.

No, you can wed a toaster. You cannot marry one.

[Talokami]

Well don't know if y'all heard but they just lifted the ban 25 days early. First gay couple was married outside San Francisco city hall at 4:15 this afternoon.

[Wikiy]

I'm talking about weddings. What makes a fake wedding?

Well, the purpose of a wedding is to celebrate and perform the marriage of two people. If, however, the marriage itself isn't condoned or allowed by the state, then the wedding itself is a sham. So for example if a gay couple were to have a wedding ceremony in Texas, regardless of what it would mean to them, it wouldn't be a real wedding because they wouldn't be getting married.