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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Not trying to be sexist here, but would this thread even be here if it was all male players shouting at each other?
    I've known many emotional men and emotionally-stunted women. A lot of things are a contributor to why people are that way, including culture, religion, upbringing, sexual orientation, mind state, etc.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  2. #402
    Do you have audio of what was said? It would make the thread more excit... err, would make it easier for us to tell you if the 'yelling' was mean or not. Yeah, that's it.

    Audio recording please.

  3. #403
    Deleted
    Many of the people that i raided with over the years told me that i was the most calm and comforting raidlead they ever had. As long as people are willing to work with me and the group, everything is fine.

    That being said, i also made people cry. But it was never because i was screaming. Whenever i get loud, i'll give two prior warnings and try to adress the raid as a whole (for example i try to stick with "we" instead of "you" while spouting rage)
    What made people cry is when i calmly and methodically took them apart based on the mistakes they made. Oh and one time at heroic Ragnaros with a guy that bickered about strategy between every try - I just had him lead the raid and declared his mistakes fair for open discussion.

  4. #404
    I'm my guild's raid leader and female and no, I've never made any of my boys cry.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeryn View Post
    That you've most likely never had to deal with the hassle of organizing 9 other human beings of varying different personality's, usually whilst being a GM and having to sort out all of the guilds issues from drama down to finances, who to bench, tiny things like finding the right tactic for your competition on a heroic boss - THEN To have one guy fuck it up because he was to busy tunnelling the boss and didn't realize you could ground totem a important ability for another 8~ wipes (Speaking from experience on this one) people WILL get frustrated with you.
    Suffice it to say that while I've never been a raid leader, I'm experienced in leading teams in real life. Ranging from small teams up to teams of over 2 dozen people. What I learned is that every person is different and needs to be handled differently. What works with one person may end up as tears and resentment with another person. I also have very little empathy for people who choose to put themselves into the role of raid leader and and then can't keep their shit together when dealing with people.

    I understand being frustrated. What I don't accept is that yelling at people is an effective tactic most of the time. I understand that sometimes it can get people's attention. But when it crosses the line into personal insults and raging, then it's lost all of it's usefulness.

    Its not a game of sunshine and ponys, if you're terrible, or doing way under what people have come to expect of you or what you present yourself to be then you're going to have people get pissed off at you. this applys to both real life AND raiding, whilst one is trivial in its comparison trying to make the connection of a job to raiding is silly on the exterior the standards are there, come perform your best get rewarded etc.
    Again, getting pissed and being a jackass to someone over it are two different things.

    And yet you, yourself assume one being angry at someone else is this huge grudgematch top of there voice fiasco trying to justify his actions by that. No, just no.
    Never wrote that, never assumed it.
    Stating an opinion as fact does not make it fact. Opinions are not fact. So don't be stupid and make a fool of yourself by trying to pass off your opinion as fact.

  6. #406
    As a RL I'm calm, prolly too calm (I'm not a very good RL :P), haven't made anybody cry that I know of (although I p'd one of the druid healers off when she had issues moving and healing on Tortos and offered to go healing myself since I had my keybinds set up to allow for mobile healing, ah well) here, but was druid CL before becoming an officer and one of our trial druids had a hard time getting adjusted to cata healing and in the process of communicating this she got a bit upset. Worked out well though and she became a very good healer after that, altho granted quit raiding not long after that again, lol.

  7. #407
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    Funny that people wonder why I refuse to join a "real" raid guild.
    Because this one incident is totally representative of the entire raiding playerbase.

    Hint: it isn't. These people are a minority and I have no idea why anyone would want to be in such a guild as there are plenty of friendly raiding guilds where the raidleader is not a raging, screaming douchebag.

    I prefer the screaming and yelling raid leader to the everyones friend type. In my experience only the guilds I was in with yelling raid leaders got anywhere the other type would get stuck midway through a raid tier because they couldn't call out bad play for fear of hurting anyone's feelings.
    There is a difference between being upfront and calling people out on their mistakes and going full nerdrage on the raid. That's the difference between a good raidleader and a douchebag.
    Last edited by mmoc5a65aaa171; 2013-07-08 at 02:27 PM.

  8. #408
    Deleted
    Haven't really made anyone cry, but this tier the pressure to perform (after being the cause of a wipe night) have made 4 healers quit wow completely :-/

  9. #409
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Haven't really made anyone cry, but this tier the pressure to perform (after being the cause of a wipe night) have made 4 healers quit wow completely :-/
    Most of the time when I see healers being blamed for wipes I look at the logs and see otherwise. People dying to avoidable damage and then blaming the healers instead of fixing their issues would make any healer want to quit. Considering you have had not 1 but 4 healers quit, I am betting that is the case.

  10. #410
    Stood in the Fire SirMeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorakh View Post
    Because this one incident is totally representative of the entire raiding playerbase.

    Hint: it isn't. These people are a minority and I have no idea why anyone would want to be in such a guild as there are plenty of friendly raiding guilds where the raidleader is not a raging, screaming douchebag.
    Have you seen how many people, even in this thread, actually agreed that "screaming is what raid leaders do"? Thankfully there were people who disagreed, but the fact there are people who think it's not only acceptable but the norm is kind of... well, discouraging :/

    When I raided my rl were easygoing and fun. Then again we were a casual guild... when we went a bit more hardcore (and I say a bit) my raid leader was the exact opposite, actually :/ he had a bad habit of bottling all the things that bothered him inside and he wouldn't talk to people about then until it was too late and everyone was confused what had happened, needless to say that was not good at all.

    I know it can be infuriating when people do the same mistakes over and over again, or don't even notice what they're doing wrong, but calling people names or verbally attacking them is not going to work on the long run. You can be strict, even harsh, and never cross the line to raging asshole. Now, super sensitive people do exist and there are people who will get hurt even if you only suggest they'd step one more step to the right, but their existence does not mean "everyone is just sensitive im just honest when i scream and yell"

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I'd be more worried about raiding with the GM's fiancee tbh . . .

    As for the RL, yeah he needed the kick. I'd understand if he went berserk with a team he raided with for weeks and that was stuck on the same boss doing the same mistake again and again but if he rages on the 4th wipe, he is too much of a wuss to be a raid leader anyway. Gotta get a thicker skin first.
    Feel's like people can't take progression anymore. Most of the time people are like, Insert Coin and Win...if there is any hiccup, learning curve, need for practice, people simply rage quit.

    What happened to 75 wipes on a boss for a 10% progress. Or to long dungeon crawls. Or to 100 wipes just to get a specific achievement.

    As when it comes to Raid Leading. For optimum performance you need someone who has authority. Authority is not question of how hard can you scream, but rather a calm and composed authority, but one that is enforced too. Not listening must have consequences. Essentially if you are told something two or three times and you still refuse to play by the rules or you are unable too, you should either excuse yourself or the raid leader has the obligation to kick you from the raid/replace you, for the sake of progression.

    Also a raid can't have 20 Chiefs and 5 Indians. People need to learn to accept their roles and take directions. Usually within you defined roles you have a lot of space to make your own choices and decisions, of course as long as you fulfill the tasks the group and the leader expects from you.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2013-07-08 at 04:52 PM.

  12. #412
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Most of the time when I see healers being blamed for wipes I look at the logs and see otherwise. People dying to avoidable damage and then blaming the healers instead of fixing their issues would make any healer want to quit. Considering you have had not 1 but 4 healers quit, I am betting that is the case.
    Normally i suppose your right, but they kept dying to the avoidable damage them selfs, causing the wipes. Not other way around.
    Dead healer is no healer ^^

  13. #413
    Oh I've raged to the point where my vision was blurry. There was a young guy, probably 15 or 16, fucking around on KT when we had him at about 10% hp. Mind you, we were going for immortal and the cheers and what not were already starting. So anyway, dumb shit dies when KT is at 3% and I completely verbal fucked him. I do not think I have ever been more pissed in general, regardless of reason. I relentlessly dug in to this player and after a few guild swaps this player had made, and me making it my mission in game to get him removed from any raiding slot. He eventually transferred off the server.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by SirMeo View Post
    Have you seen how many people, even in this thread, actually agreed that "screaming is what raid leaders do"? Thankfully there were people who disagreed, but the fact there are people who think it's not only acceptable but the norm is kind of... well, discouraging :/

    When I raided my rl were easygoing and fun. Then again we were a casual guild... when we went a bit more hardcore (and I say a bit) my raid leader was the exact opposite, actually :/ he had a bad habit of bottling all the things that bothered him inside and he wouldn't talk to people about then until it was too late and everyone was confused what had happened, needless to say that was not good at all.

    I know it can be infuriating when people do the same mistakes over and over again, or don't even notice what they're doing wrong, but calling people names or verbally attacking them is not going to work on the long run. You can be strict, even harsh, and never cross the line to raging asshole. Now, super sensitive people do exist and there are people who will get hurt even if you only suggest they'd step one more step to the right, but their existence does not mean "everyone is just sensitive im just honest when i scream and yell"
    I'm going to be honest with you, people can be dumb. I know, who knew? But it happens. And sometimes when they are unbelievable dumb, you want a raid leader that you know will not put up with their stupid crap, because you don't want to end up in a raid where everyone just lets people get away with really stupid crap and hurts the progression of 9 or 24 other people. It is just a waste of time and not to mention your player retention for the entire guild is going to be really bad.

    As long as the raid leader keeps his yelling about the game and doesn't make it personal, then I see no problem with it. If you've ever been in a raid then you know that sometimes someone just needs to get mad and yell to get people focused to finally get that kill, I've seen this happen so many times.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by taurenguard View Post
    I lol'd hard.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy - View Post
    Hahahaha oh man as being a former top tier raider yeah I've heard people cry hell even cry to me on skype / vent from time to time. You wanna know how my raid life was life in Woltk? Here I'll give you all a just of it

    Yeah people will cry if they are treated like this.
    As a former GM that went 2 expansions killing 11/12H, 12/14H, 7/8H, etc etc due to incompetent healers... I can completely understand the need to yell at idiots that can't comprehend basic tasks wipe after wipe after wipe. If you don't single them out and show the raid that said idiot is the one wasting everyone's time, they will continue to do so unhindered.

    HOWEVER, yelling as that person did in the video for as long as they did is pretty silly. The best way to go about it is to single them out in front of everyone, verbally reiterate what they're doing that is stupid and tell them that it needs to stop. Most times they'll correct whatever issue they had been repeating previously.

    Further, this doesn't apply to learning mechanics, first night pulls or first (even second or third) time mistakes. In those situations it's best to keep everything friendly.

    EDIT: To everyone preaching that friendly, laid back and kind leaders are what people should look for, that's fine if you want to be consistently mediocre (or casual). If you want to be competitive, your leader needs to be strict and to the point. Friendliness doesn't get you anywhere in moderate to bleeding edge progression.
    Last edited by glo; 2013-07-09 at 04:34 AM.
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  17. #417
    I can get very annoyed quite fast or even start to rage when it's clear people aren't paying attention. However so far I've managed to restrain myself from calling anyone with names or shouting my lungs out. Usually the criticism is something like "that was fking stupid" and the speeches are almost always targeted to the whole group instead of specific player(s). Sometimes things can get a bit ugly when players argue back to me, but for me these fights end when next pull counter is started and I do hope my fellow raiders feel the same way and hold no grudges.

    Why rage then? There isn't really a way to defend this kind of behavious but sometimes I can't help opening my mouth if people are wasting my time, when I and rest of the raid are giving their best performance.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I think we were all too uncomfortable to boot her from channel when she was already so upset so we just pretended like the game had a new sobbingwoman soundtrack.
    Holy crap. I can't believe I laughed at this. Feel so bad but damn that's hilarious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by glo View Post
    As a former GM that went 2 expansions killing 11/12H, 12/14H, 7/8H, etc etc due to incompetent healers... I can completely understand the need to yell at idiots that can't comprehend basic tasks wipe after wipe after wipe. If you don't single them out and show the raid that said idiot is the one wasting everyone's time, they will continue to do so unhindered.

    HOWEVER, yelling as that person did in the video for as long as they did is pretty silly. The best way to go about it is to single them out in front of everyone, verbally reiterate what they're doing that is stupid and tell them that it needs to stop. Most times they'll correct whatever issue they had been repeating previously.

    Further, this doesn't apply to learning mechanics, first night pulls or first (even second or third) time mistakes. In those situations it's best to keep everything friendly.

    EDIT: To everyone preaching that friendly, laid back and kind leaders are what people should look for, that's fine if you want to be consistently mediocre (or casual). If you want to be competitive, your leader needs to be strict and to the point. Friendliness doesn't get you anywhere in moderate to bleeding edge progression.
    This is very true. There has to be a time when your RL has to get you to buckle down and focus. If speaking nicely doesn't work, then raising his voice is probably the next thing to try. The good RL's know how to motivate their team though. Sometimes RL can be dumb as hell and still scream at people. Those are the ones I don't respect. If you're gonna scream at someone, you better know your shit through and through. If you're learning it like everyone else, then you gotta give some leeway.

  19. #419
    I would guess the RL had a moment of nerd rage, and the fiancee got overly sensitive... When you're just starting out raiding, you're going to get yelled at a couple of times. Well, probably not yelled, but at least talked to in a sarcastic / aggressive manner

    I mean what could he have possibly said? "Oh my god you're terrible! How can you not see that? Are you blind?" Pull the boss again, all is forgotten.

    Kind of dumb on the RL's part to go off on her if he knew her soon to be husband was the GM though >.>

    Seriously, don't join guilds like these. If not drama, they will go on vacations together etc. And you've got your GM and a healer gone for weeks (Let me guess, the GM was one of the Tanks too right?). Painful for 10 mans especially. Avoid!

  20. #420
    Why do people hold their push to talk when they're crying. Almost as annoying as when people are eating (soup especially) and find a need to not mute their mic on skype.

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