PTR: 5.4 Trinkets

[Ruffles]

How do you actually get it? When I visited the vendor on PTR at Niuzao Temple, he only offered me agi trinkets.

It's filtered to show hunter loot by default. Change it to all specializations and you should be able to get it.

[hareu]

You are not taking into considerations some other stuff.

KC add nothing to your damage is a straight up damage. arcane shot proc cobra strikes wich also increase a lot your pet damage.

arcane shot is less focus than KC as straigh up FPD as wins vs KC, gcd usage and focus on a 5 min fight should be taken into account tho, if you dont have that many gcd free to fire that many arcane shot then you should be using KC because it will free up more gcd to do more cobra shots and more arcane shots.

we shouldnt be doing this kind of math, numbers are too close and others dont have to deal with this, is it worth? we cant tell yet cause isnt final.

this is like comparing fervor vs direbeast and just looking at the damage direbeast give you, you gota take into account free gcds, you gota count pet damage due to having more focus, you gota count the free arcane shots you are getting out of fervor and a lot more stuff.

in 5.4 the costs won't be far apart at all, so that's not even an argument there...

Doing 50k more damage is better that potentially getting 1 stack of cobra strikes, or getting 12 seconds off your rapid fire, it is, that's all there is to it.

[Deleted]

so your tests conclude that kc does about 150k dmg per cast and as does about 100k dmg per cast, tell me why you shouldn't use kill command again?
do you even know how to read meters?

I do. im wondering if you do thou. Or if you have even tryed PTR ?

1. Currently AS cost 30, but with ToTh beeing EXTREMLY strong atm in 5.4 and uptime is insane. Since AS can now procc now TotH stacks. Around 70% of all AS cost 10 focus.
2. AS also lower Rapid fire CD by 10 seconds for every cast. (With 2 set)
3. AS procc Cobra Shots that makes your pets get auto crits.

[Slot]

We will see crit for SV, but I don't think BM will be switching back.

I think BM will be switching back to crit haste as well. With the loss of tier rppm procs and trinket rppm procs (confirmation that meta gem will work with new helms?) crit will be the better way to go. As it is now we can see bad luck in RNG with haste build.

[Beace]

I think BM will be switching back to crit haste as well. With the loss of tier rppm procs and trinket rppm procs (confirmation that meta gem will work with new helms?) crit will be the better way to go. As it is now we can see bad luck in RNG with haste build.

Are you claiming the new trinkets are non-RPPM? And personally I'd be extremely surprised if we can't use the legendary meta in the 5.4 heads. Otherwise chances are good the ToT heads would end up being BiS for the rest of the expansion.

With that said, I'd fucking love it if they got rid of RPPM for all future. It's a bad system in multiple ways. Haste is also a very boring stat.

[Tehstool]

I think BM will be switching back to crit haste as well. With the loss of tier rppm procs and trinket rppm procs (confirmation that meta gem will work with new helms?) crit will be the better way to go. As it is now we can see bad luck in RNG with haste build.

You are forgetting that we will be using at least one real ppm trinket next tier and possibly the cloak will be real ppm. We were going hate before blink strikes was even implemented, now that it scales with haste it makes it even better. Haste is better for BM even if you don't have everything.

It was their intention for you to use the meta gem in the tiers after ToT.

[Slot]

You are forgetting that we will be using at least one real ppm trinket next tier and possibly the cloak will be real ppm. We were going hate before blink strikes was even implemented, now that it scales with haste it makes it even better. Haste is better for BM even if you don't have everything.

It was their intention for you to use the meta gem in the tiers after ToT.

I don't know, I do the logs for my guild and it is me (haste/crit) and another hunter (crit/haste). I see my dps jump up and down a whole lot more than the crit/haste hunter just because of the bad luck streaks.

I for one did not go haste/crit until I had all the rppm items. And I asked about the meta gem because of the Sha touched 500 stat gem that was only good for the gun (which was used well into tot if you had 2/2 heroic).

[D R E A D E D]

I think BM will be switching back to crit haste as well. With the loss of tier rppm procs and trinket rppm procs (confirmation that meta gem will work with new helms?) crit will be the better way to go. As it is now we can see bad luck in RNG with haste build.

Keep in mind with the amount of AS we will be casting due to 2T16 and TotH coming out > Ferv/DB, crit devalues slightly due to high Cobra Strike uptime as a result

[Tehstool]

I don't know, I do the logs for my guild and it is me (haste/crit) and another hunter (crit/haste). I see my dps jump up and down a whole lot more than the crit/haste hunter just because of the bad luck streaks.

I for one did not go haste/crit until I had all the rppm items. And I asked about the meta gem because of the Sha touched 500 stat gem that was only good for the gun (which was used well into tot if you had 2/2 heroic).

Bad luck streaks? What are you talking about? You are both susceptible to bad luck streaks, but due to how Real PPM works, he is actually more prone to worse bad luck streaks than you are. If he's getting better uptime, then he's just luckier than you. Simple as that.

[Slot]

Bad luck streaks? What are you talking about? You are both susceptible to bad luck streaks, but due to how Real PPM works, he is actually more prone to worse bad luck streaks than you are. If he's getting better uptime, then he's just luckier than you. Simple as that.

Bad luck streaks means bad luck when certain trinkets proc and such, you cant tell me having more crit during jin'rohk is worse than haste during the dmg buff phase, I have seen it first hand. Having more crit KC's will (most of the time) result in better overall dmg (yes this is one boss out of 13 and only an example). Bad streaks happen during these dmg buff phases as well resulting in... well bad luck streaks.

I am sure this will all be tested and proven in the following months but I am sure once you see the few top guild hunters going crit you will follow. I am just stating that I foresee it coming now because we will not be littered with rppm items next tier (thank god).

[Tehstool]

Bad luck streaks means bad luck when certain trinkets proc and such, you cant tell me having more crit during jin'rohk is worse than haste during the dmg buff phase, I have seen it first hand. Having more crit KC's will (most of the time) result in better overall dmg (yes this is one boss out of 13 and only an example). Bad streaks happen during these dmg buff phases as well resulting in... well bad luck streaks.

I am sure this will all be tested and proven in the following months but I am sure once you see the few top guild hunters going crit you will follow. I am just stating that I foresee it coming now because we will not be littered with rppm items next tier (thank god).

I don't even think you read the second part of my response. I know what bad lucks streaks are, hence why I explained why I was questioning your reasoning. I am also not arguing for one fight in specific, I'm arguing for overall damage. If I do slightly less damage on a fight, but be the best I can be on the other 12, then I'd go with the other 12.

[Slot]

I don't even think you read the second part of my response. I know what bad lucks streaks are, hence why I explained why I was questioning your reasoning. I am also not arguing for one fight in specific, I'm arguing for overall damage. If I do slightly less damage on a fight, but be the best I can be on the other 12, then I'd go with the other 12.

I dont think you read my second part either. This isnt about now this is about next patch when we lose a few rppm proc items. I didnt say for sure crit will be better, I said I think. And I see my friend the other hunter have better luck streaks with his high crit more often than my high haste with rppm procs. He does not even use 4pc (I dont know why) and he is 3 or 4 ilvl above me but every time I see him beat me by a bit I check his crits versus mine and all the rppm mechanic dmg of each of ours.

This whole game is around rng which gets annoying some times. But the topic that I originally got onto was that next patch we lose a few rppm proc items and that crit possibly will be better or around the same as haste.

[hareu]

I do. im wondering if you do thou. Or if you have even tryed PTR ?

1. Currently AS cost 30, but with ToTh beeing EXTREMLY strong atm in 5.4 and uptime is insane. Since AS can now procc now TotH stacks. Around 70% of all AS cost 10 focus.
2. AS also lower Rapid fire CD by 10 seconds for every cast. (With 2 set)
3. AS procc Cobra Shots that makes your pets get auto crits.

Do you really think rapid fire cd reduced by 10 seconds, and the 15% chance of getting cobra strikes equals 50k damage? I really don't

[Tehstool]

I dont think you read my second part either. This isnt about now this is about next patch when we lose a few rppm proc items. I didnt say for sure crit will be better, I said I think. And I see my friend the other hunter have better luck streaks with his high crit more often than my high haste with rppm procs. He does not even use 4pc (I dont know why) and he is 3 or 4 ilvl above me but every time I see him beat me by a bit I check his crits versus mine and all the rppm mechanic dmg of each of ours.

This whole game is around rng which gets annoying some times. But the topic that I originally got onto was that next patch we lose a few rppm proc items and that crit possibly will be better or around the same as haste.

I'm talking about next patch. I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

You yourself mentioned jin'rokh. I simply stated that if something arose like that in the next tier, I'd still want to be the best I could be on all the other fights rather than just being slightly better on one fight (I didn't even mention that that fight is trivial because I wasn't comparing this tier).

We don't go for haste just because of Real PPM. There are numerous other benefits that come with haste.

As for the discrepancy in the logs, he was either luckier or was more skilled on that fight, or both.

[kidsafe]

I dont think you read my second part either. This isnt about now this is about next patch when we lose a few rppm proc items. I didnt say for sure crit will be better, I said I think. And I see my friend the other hunter have better luck streaks with his high crit more often than my high haste with rppm procs. He does not even use 4pc (I dont know why) and he is 3 or 4 ilvl above me but every time I see him beat me by a bit I check his crits versus mine and all the rppm mechanic dmg of each of ours.

Anecdotal evidence consisting of two hunters 'doing it wrong' does not inspire a lot of confidence. Of course his RNG is better if he beats you in DPS when you are otherwise close. He is also 4 ilvl higher than you...he should beat you every time unless his gear choices are awful. And they probably are since he's not using 4pc...

Link your logs IMO.

[Slot]

I'm talking about next patch. I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

You yourself mentioned jin'rokh. I simply stated that if something arose like that in the next tier, I'd still want to be the best I could be on all the other fights rather than just being slightly better on one fight (I didn't even mention that that fight is trivial because I wasn't comparing this tier).

We don't go for haste just because of Real PPM. There are numerous other benefits that come with haste.

As for the discrepancy in the logs, he was either luckier or was more skilled on that fight, or both.

I understand completely what you mean from your passive aggressive posts. And the haste benefits never out weighed crit before rppm was even introduced.

Now from your posts you seem to know for sure haste will be the go to stat again next patch, I am simply throwing it out there that with the loss of rppm items crit could be better or around the same as haste.

Also I mention jin'rokh because of your passive aggressive "Bad streaks? What are you talking about?" post.

We will see how it plays out when patch launches. As I enjoy crit being our main go to stat more than haste I am hopeful that crit and haste at least become equal in strength and people can stat how they want.

[Tehstool]

I understand completely what you mean from your passive aggressive posts. And the haste benefits never out weighed crit before rppm was even introduced.

Now from your posts you seem to know for sure haste will be the go to stat again next patch, I am simply throwing it out there that with the loss of rppm items crit could be better or around the same as haste.

Also I mention jin'rokh because of your passive aggressive "Bad streaks? What are you talking about?" post.

We will see how it plays out when patch launches. As I enjoy crit being our main go to stat more than haste I am hopeful that crit and haste at least become equal in strength and people can stat how they want.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but my intentions are not to be passive aggressive at all. You must just be misunderstanding what I'm saying or just misusing the term.

My post about your reasoning on bad luck streaks was to say that a hunter who stacks crit will be prone to worse bad luck streaks than a hunter who stacks haste. They are more susceptible to bad luck streaks. If he ever got more Real PPM procs/uptime than you did then he just got lucky or you got unlucky or both. So saying bad luck streaks are a disadvantage for stacking haste is wrong. One of the perks of stacking haste is that you are less likely to get bad luck streaks and if/when they happen they aren't as bad as a crit stacker who gets one.

I just am not seeing that losing a couple Real PPM items/procs will make crit better for BM.

Would you mind posting your logs/armory so I can see what bad luck streaks you are talking about in comparison to the other hunter? It could just be something as simple as him using focus fire more often or what have you.

I apologize if you see my posts coming off as being passive aggressive or anything negative, I'm just trying to converse and share my findings/reasoning/input.

[Slot]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but my intentions are not to be passive aggressive at all. You must just be misunderstanding what I'm saying or just misusing the term.

My post about your reasoning on bad luck streaks was to say that a hunter who stacks crit will be prone to worse bad luck streaks than a hunter who stacks haste. They are more susceptible to bad luck streaks. If he ever got more Real PPM procs/uptime than you did then he just got lucky or you got unlucky or both. So saying bad luck streaks are a disadvantage for stacking haste is wrong. One of the perks of stacking haste is that you are less likely to get bad luck streaks and if/when they happen they aren't as bad as a crit stacker who gets one.

I just am not seeing that losing a couple Real PPM items/procs will make crit better for BM.

Would you mind posting your logs/armory so I can see what bad luck streaks you are talking about in comparison to the other hunter? It could just be something as simple as him using focus fire more often or what have you.

I apologize if you see my posts coming off as being passive aggressive or anything negative, I'm just trying to converse and share my findings/reasoning/input.

That's cool. I'm doing this on my phone hence the edits of mispelled words because auto correct sucks so I cannot get logs at this moment.

One thing that I have notice is the crit/haste hunter has much better luck at the start of the fight with burst dps. We do the same rotation and everything. I know this because I taught him how to hunter. This does have strength in my opinion of haste and crit. I hate seeing his dps sky rocket at the start just because he crits more than me.

All in all we do come close at the end, going back and forth on who wins. Him more often than me, due to the higher ilvl. I'm just a fan of crit and big numbers for big shots/abilities.

[kidsafe]

It isn't luck, stop calling it that... You are both getting all your initial procs stacked, sometimes under bloodlust/heroism at the start of the fight. You should both have used an initial Rapid Fire as well. Stacked haste has diminishing returns while crit doesn't unless you or your pet hit 100%. So yes, he will pretty much always burst higher than you at the start of a fight. So what though? What matters is whether he does more damage over the course of the entire fight since no fight in ToT and so far in SoO testing relies on opening burst.

[Tehstool]

Ok guys, looking at everything, this just does it. We NEED the CD reduction trinket next tier. Stampede is a good CD again, but not only will it buff our deterrence and disengage, (if my math is close to correct) it will basically negate the increased CD on deterrence (see the patch notes) and with CTHC we can have it on a ~1 minute CD (with charges) and disengage will be on a on a ~7 second CD.