PVP Trinket VS PvE Trinket in 5.4

[Iyarashii]

So, I decided see if in 5.4 even with the new buff to wearing two PvP trinkets would make it better than using a PvE trinket, if you don't want to read stats the short version is that a PVE trinket will completely destroy and both the on-use and proc trinket!

Here's some math to help:
My Tyrannical On-Use agility trinket gives me almost 3k agility, which makes my weapon damage go from 12k to 13k a tiny bit more than 1k more damage on my weapons.

The Grievous On-Use agility trinket gives 3,670, more than half way to 4k agility, if we were to say that 1k agility gives 300 more weapon damage which I just tested by taking off my boots that give me 1,020 agility, which I know is more due to the 35% from leather spec and choosing sub.

So than 3670 would bring my weapon damage from 12k to around 13.6k or so.

5.4 Raid - Normal - Siege of Orgrimmar - Boss X Loot X - Agi DPS Trinket (4) Has 21,380 agility, even if it was nerfed to half like they have done in the past and doubled the duration that would be around 10,600 agility, resulting in a boost in damage from 12k to 15k. That's HUGE in PvP when my ambush does 470% weapon damage plus 3k. That would result with an initial ambush of 73,500 with the trinket proc, that's BEFORE find weakness! If I used the Grievous Trinket I would get 64,100. And this is before mastery vs. PVP power.

Now onto the mastery vs. PVP power! The PvP trinket right now has 2k PvP power. That results in 4.83% more PvP power. Now if I were to take the PVE trinket I would get 2k Mastery, which is 3.27 points of mastery. Right now I have 8k Mastery, which is 64% on my finishers, with 40% of that coming from my gear and not the baseline mastery. So if 8k=40% 2k=10% more mastery, which would put me at 74% mastery!

Right now with 54% mastery after taking off almost 2k mastery brings me to 54% making my eviscerate hit for 47,650. With that 10% more it goes to 60,150. That seems like a lot more damage than 4.83% even though it is just on finishers.

So in a highly unrealistic situation, where the trinket is NOT nerfed in PvP this is how hard my ambush would hit for, with the proc up, rupture up, shadow blades, prey on the weak 10% more damage mastery of subtlety, and find weakness, taking into account the 50% version, Resil WILL be calculated after. Note this is on a warrior that has 50k armor, bringing it down to 25k which would be a 26% damage reduction.

Ambush no Resil all CD's:
The proc gives about 6300 weapon damage, giving me 18400 weapon damage.

89,480 ambush damage with just the proc up

10% of that is 8,948 so with Mastery of Subtlety and Prey on the Weak that would bring it to 107,376

Having Rupture up would than add 17,896, coming from the original damage of 89480. Adding up to 125,272 Damage! Now for PvP power, which at the moment with no PvP DPS trinket and straight up full Tyrannical gear I have 30% PvP power. Bringing that to 162,853!

Now for the reductions. First armor: 120,511 than with 65% Resil: 42,179 NON crit! That's more than I'm doing on an lvl 90 target dummy with a 41k Ambush with Rupture, Find Weakness, and Mastery of Subtlety up!

For eviscerate with just the proc up would hit for 143,000 before Resil and armor and all the buffs up.

Now all of these calculations were done wearing full Tyrannical, which means that the damage would be even higher with 5.4 hits and the new gear comes out!

Also I would like to note that this is also self-buffed, meaning I don't have any mastery buff, crit buff, kings or might. And is also taken into mind that your first attack would be Garrote to set up the buff and Find Weakness and have the SV buff up, than to Ambush right after so that you have the full 21k agility on your Ambush

[finn]

i think you have to redo your math a bit. as holinka twittert (yesterday? can't remember) PvE gear will be scaled down to 512, whereas PvP gear will cap at 522. so, first of all, the linked trinket has to be scaled down to ilvl 512, which likely turns those yummy 2k mastery into something 1,3k or so. on top of that you'll have to recalculate the proc itself, so it won't be a 21,k, more likely it will come down to a 12 or 13k proc. last but not least, you'll have to half it and double its duration (like blizz did with all those PvE-proc-trinket). and at the end of the day, that trinket isn't that good any more.

but i'd really like to see how the CD reduction trinket turns out for pvp. what will the CD recovery rate be in a pvp-environment (illv 512)? lower CD on Vanish, ShD, CloS, SmokeBomb, Evasion, ShadoBlades and on top a little agi-proc sounds just awesome!

[Kuniku]

while the trinket will be an interesting option, you've got to take into account that it will be scaled down, so numbers reduced, and most people will be running round with the new trinket set bonus (which you wouldn't have) giving a further 10% damage reduction.

You've got to then weigh up how effective the scaled down and possibly PvP nerfed trinket compares to missing out on 10% damage reduction - which is pretty huge!

[Verain]

Their current plan is kind of silly. Pretend the patch launches, and all gear is still scaled down to 496, except pvp gear, which is unscaled (and is at 522). Then each week the scaling goes up- 498, 500, 502, etc. Later in the tier, it stops at 522.

That seems crazy to me, but that's their plan for now.



Either way, the PvP 10% damage reduction is clearly meant to punish people using these new ZOMG trinkets.

[Iyarashii]

From looking at the gear on the PTR going from 553 to 512, I noticed there wasn't much of a change in off stats like Mastery but AGI took a pretty decent hit. And if they do eventually bring the PvE gear to 522 than I doubt that the trinket would be effected much, same with just the passive trinket that reduces our cooldowns, which would be beyond incredible for RMP with a lower cooldown on dance for more swaps. But even after the ILvL reduction I think that the PvP Trinket set bonus is not even that good, here's why:

Here's the math on having a pvp trinket set bonus or not with 65% baseline Resil, which it is not additive with.
31500 With the trinket set bonus
25000 If the trinket set bonus was additive
35000 without the set bonus
Note that was with a 100k attack ignoring armor.
So Unless you think 3500 damage reduction is good, than by all means take the set bonus, but I know I'm going to be PvE'ing just so I can stay competitive.

[Eazy]

We cannot use math like this.

Not everything is certain in PvP and this is the reason why I like it, because you cannot really predict how PvE trinkets will be in PvP.

[Impaktx]

You're right, you can't predict how they *will* be, but you can guess how they *could* be. And the cooldown reducing trinket could be absolutely insane. Imagine RMP, where both the mage and the rogue had this. Both deep freeze and shadow dance had 40% reduced cooldowns. Talk about constant swaps.

Take 5.3 for instance. Due to the trinket changes to reduce the effectiveness of the valor trinket, they made Rune of Re-origination *completely* overpowered for rogues and ferals. I can easily get a 130% mastery proc, which makes my feral bleeds tick for 40-50k against fully geared targets, and my SnD increase my attack speed by well over 100%. It's that type of balance that needs addressed early, before these trinkets become broken on live, and I guarantee you, they will.