5.4 Arena - Current Rating > Exp

[kcatta]

So you know how RBGs are atm? nobody cares that you're a 2400 exp RBG'er from past seasons but they only care about what your CR is? It's a bit early to call this for sure but I think Arenas are about to be in the same fashion, nobody cares you are a 2.2k player from last season or what your exp is but its all about the CR.



What are your thoughts on this?

[Eazy]

I'm not sure what you want to say?

[kcatta]

I feel like people are going to be looking for Arena partners based on Current Rating rather then Experience, is what I mean. So people are going to be more inclined to take a 1750 CR with no notable experience over a player with 1600 CR and 2.2k+ Exp exactly how RBGs currently work.

Edit: for MMR reasons im talking about, since there will be no such thing as arena teams anymore. where you all start from 0 Rating gradually building rating. Now its all personal rating and no team rating.

[Seolla]

I feel like people are going to be looking for Arena partners based on Current Rating rather then Experience, is what I mean. So people are going to be more inclined to take a 1750 CR with no notable experience over a player with 1600 CR and 2.2k+ Exp exactly how RBGs currently work.

If you're 2.2k+ the previous season, then why are you at 1600 CR?
I don't see the problem here.

[Eazy]

Ok now I know, so.. It doesn't mean what was your rating before, the only thing that matter is your rating right now.
Some people could have Gladiator in previous expansions, but they can be bad in MoP.

[kcatta]

Its all based upon personal ratings come 5.4 as we've datamined. and no specific reason. the same can be asked to the RBG'ers that are like 1600 rating now but had HOTA RBG last season. Theyre not getting invited to groups to which match their skill level which is holding them back because people want CR more then they look for actual experience.

---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 06:26 PM ----------

Ok now I know, so.. It doesn't mean what was your rating before, the only thing that matter is your rating right now.
Some people could have Gladiator in previous expansions, but they can be bad in MoP.

Oh i agree. but rather then taking a good player who just resubbed or rolled an alt theyre gunna be turned down because of this whole current rating bullshit thats going on now.

[Brewski]

I doubt this would mean anything. People with 2,200 achievements in any expansion would most likely be picked over a 2k for the current season, even tho I highly disagree with it.

[Szemere]

Its all based upon personal ratings come 5.4 as we've datamined. and no specific reason. the same can be asked to the RBG'ers that are like 1600 rating now but had HOTA RBG last season. Theyre not getting invited to groups to which match their skill level which is holding them back because people want CR more then they look for actual experience.

Then that is a problem with the leaders of said groups, and not the system. A good raidleader also researches any new players before they join their raid, which goes further than current tier experience.

[kcatta]

All im stating is that these numbers called "Current Rating" are huge in the RBG community. You could be Rank 1 warlock multi glad but not have the required "CR" and will be turned away for a random scrub who has the slightest idea on how to play a lock. I dont think this whole personal arena rating will go down smooth come mid season when people are being very anal about what rating you are at verses what really matters, the skill level you play at.

On the contrar I agree with your statement, Well if your a 2.2k player why does your CR not reflect it? All it takes is a bad night of playing with the wrong people and you're tanked back to noobville.

---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 06:36 PM ----------

Then that is a problem with the leaders of said groups, and not the system. A good raidleader also researches any new players before they join their raid, which goes further than current tier experience.

See its not though, being a RBG leader myself of and around the 1900 Bracket. Im not going to bring 4 players that have a low mmr into a group that has 6 other players at the actual stated rating because when we get in game what should have been a 1850-1950 team rating is all the sudden a 1700 team rating just from taking those few players EVEN if they are really good. The reward is not even close to the consequences if you lose.

[Anonymous1038853]

MMR > Rating of any kind

If your MMR is lower than another player for a given season, then why should anyone care about your previous experience? MMR doesn't reset between seasons for arena like it does for RBGs. So I honestly don't see what the problem is here. I've never heard of a situation where a rank 1 player was turned away by multiple teams in favor of less-skilled players. Furthermore, this change looks like it will encourage participation and reduce rating elitism. Players won't be punished for experimenting with those they group with, and that can only be a good thing.

[Kreeshak]

I doubt this would mean anything. People with 2,200 achievements in any expansion would most likely be picked over a 2k for the current season, even tho I highly disagree with it.

I've seen a lot of 2000-2200 people play more like 1700-1800. Previous expansions mean nothing.
Also 2200 on main means nothing when you play your alt.

EDIT: How can I possibly forget? I've also experienced rank 1 players (season 1) play like 1600-1700 at Cataclysm.

[kcatta]

MMR > Rating of any kind

If your MMR is lower than another player for a given season, then why should anyone care about your previous experience? MMR doesn't reset between seasons for arena like it does for RBGs. So I honestly don't see what the problem is here. I've never heard of a situation where a rank 1 player was turned away by multiple teams in favor of less-skilled players. Furthermore, this change looks like it will encourage participation and reduce rating elitism. Players won't be punished for experimenting with those they group with, and that can only be a good thing.

Im talking about CR, not MMR. If you read the OP at all you'd understand. And CR would reset every season if it gets changed to the way theyre proposing.....

---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 08:32 PM ----------

I mean this topic is more not to question the skill level but more of how the system is being changed and what peoples thoughts are. I for one am meh on it. Yea it leaves you more freedom on the more people you can play with but also restricts you to also be on your toes all season and almost disallow yourself to play 3s "for the heck of it" with the random mage and spriest in trade chat you know?

[Nicola]

Honestly, current rating is bullshit. I've played 2s and 3s just for cap with people that didn't even have the 1.5k achievement and did better than most 2.2k heroes I've played with.
If someone can make me believe he's somewhat decent I'll gladly play a game with him and see how it goes. If he does good, great, and if he's shit, I know I don't have to bother playing with him ever again.

[kcatta]

I'd agree MoP is comepletely different game then it was back in the day. Bassically now especially as a healer you gotta be on fucking point with all the burst and brokeness. You think the personal ratings verse the team ratings will be better?

[Shadowygoodness]

Current rating is a system that sucks. It completely discourages you from messing around at all; not to mention, it makes it impossible to play with your friends if they're noobs, because you lose WAY more rating for 1 loss than you gain for SEVERAL wins when playing with people who have CR way below your own. If this goes live, it will pretty much kill the option of pug capping for anyone with a decent CR on the season, and contrary to popular belief high rated players play games with randoms from time to time, too.

[kcatta]

Current rating is a system that sucks. It completely discourages you from messing around at all; not to mention, it makes it impossible to play with your friends if they're noobs, because you lose WAY more rating for 1 loss than you gain for SEVERAL wins when playing with people who have CR way below your own. If this goes live, it will pretty much kill the option of pug capping for anyone with a decent CR on the season, and contrary to popular belief high rated players play games with randoms from time to time, too.

THIS is exactly how I feel about it, and the reason I made the post.

[Anonymous1038853]

Im talking about CR, not MMR. If you read the OP at all you'd understand. And CR would reset every season if it gets changed to the way theyre proposing.....

I did read your original post. Your assumption that I haven't is quite baseless. I'm saying that MMR is more important than any sort of team or personal rating. So people who acknowledge rating (current or historical) above MMR are failing to acknowledge how the arena matchmaking system works. Current MMR has always been more relevant than previous, simply because Blizzard rarely resets it.

The few times they do, it's generally only after there was a significant alteration to the metagame -- which as a consequence invalidates previous experience to a large degree -- or when there's evidence of cheating. In either case, it's not particularly hard for a given individual to get their rating back up, assuming they're skilled enough to do so; partly because everyone is on an even playing field after these periods.

So, to reiterate for clarity: MMR > Rating of any kind. There's nothing to suggest this change will somehow invalidate that point. What may change is a more visible sense of a player's MMR and PvP activity in a given season. Folks won't be considered awful just because they're not on an active team. Seriously, nothing bad can really come from this change which wasn't prevalent before it, and in greater magnitude.

[Kals]

I think what Bones is trying to convey is that while CR will appear important, unlike RBG's arena has MMR which doesn't reset each season. So even if an arena player's CR is say 1000 but their MMR is 1900, they won't "hold back" 1900 players' rating increases/decreases like what happens in RBGs, since they're playing at the same rating level. Meanwhile in RBG's, your rating directly reflects your current MMR since it's reset every season.

Unfortunately you won't be able to see another player's MMR, so it could still lead to what happens on the pug RBG scene, but that's what you play with friends for; especially if it's cross-realm: opens up a lot of possibilities for play. Easier to get a group of 3 friends cross-realm playing together than it is 10 (for most people).

Imo the bad thing is if they decide to either a) reset MMR for season 14 (will only affect s14) or b) reset MMR for every arena season; THEN it becomes a CR-fest like RBG's if you're always pugging. Even then the arena scene can be more lenient than RBG's however, hence why you'll see people with 2k+ teams invite a let's say 2.4k+ XP but 1800 mmr healer and play. Yeah, they're queuing into lower rated teams and it's a bigger loss of points if they lose, but the experience the player has gives the team the opportunity to increase their rating; and it's only going to affect 1-4 people rather than 9.

TL;DR: Don't pug with bads and you're fine. A solid chunk of the people who will "cry" about your CR probably can't play at much higher than what they're at anyways.

Sidethought: If they re-implement skirmishes again I wonder if you'd be able to increase your MMR for rated play via skirmishes so that if your friends are really worried about you tanking their rating if you lose at a lower MMR you can just play a few skirmishes and get it up. Would be interesting at least. Unfortunately I've a feeling that it would get abused and players would just play skirmishes and purposely lose in order to drop their MMR for rated as well, so who knows; just thinking aloud.

[Lulbalance]

one of the guys i play with won't play with anyone under 2200 this xpac in 3s. and he's right to disregard previous achivos.. my highest 3s achivo is 300pts above where i'm probably going to finish this season.

the problem isnt that people arent aware of this..it's that it's pretty fkn hard to link your CR. so you look at the achiv and check the dates and if it was a weak season for 2200/2400 whatever then you know what its gonna be.

all that aside.. playing with someone is the real tell, imo..you'll be able to tell pretty fast who knows the meta. nothing matters until the last 2-3 weeks anyways so i dunno why people stress about this stuff.

[achromatickang]

I don't know if this is a good thing or not.

I'm one of those dudes who doesn't mind teaming up with some under geared or inexperienced players and helping them get some wins / achievements because I know that I can form a new team and get high rating again. I have a feeling that having a personal rating is going to mean that I can't really play with as many players because losing a lot of games could potentially screw up my rating for the entire season?

I've seen a lot of 2000-2200 people play more like 1700-1800. Previous expansions mean nothing.
Also 2200 on main means nothing when you play your alt.

I see this a lot on the server I play on now. All kinds of Arena Masters who play worse than a lot of the 1550 players I played with during Cataclysm. It always blows my mind. One person actually got offended when I genuinely asked "how did you get Arena Master?" after being puzzled by how horrible they were. They were like "uh, by doing the achievements??"