Still no sign of Saurfang in SoO. Meanwhile, Gamon gets to fight Nazgrim. Fair?

[Chireru93]

like you said, we have no sound files for vol'jin and thrall, as well as other racial leaders (I didn't see anything for varian or sylvanas yet, but I doubt varian isn't going to just sit in stormwind while his forces attack and kill Garrosh himself). the ptr just came out give it time.

[razorfire]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Saurfang got development in wrath due to his pop culture status since people thought he was "bad ass" for smashing alliance raids to org and shouting some stuff during the AQ event.

I totally understand people not wanting "pop culture characters" to be involved in raids or whatever, but saying Gamon shouldn't be involved but Saurfang should is... inconsistent. The only difference is that Saurfang got his first lore build up a while ago and Gamon is getting his now.

not true, saurfang got his start in serious lore back in original WoW and hasn't slid into being a joke in WoW lore since his original appearance, he got a clear history added to him, a strong personality, family, in other words actual character development. gamon showed up and got a key, which rogues are supposed to take from him, then he gets beaten up alot cause he's attackable so that rogues can take a key from him, then he's joked about because he's attackable and gets beaten up alot so rogues can take a key from him, then he's buffed because he's been joked about for 2 expansions because he's killed alot because he's attackable because rogues needed to take a key from him.... the difference is saurfang got his launch into being a serious lore character early on. gamon got his launch as blizzard perpetuating a running joke, and even his involvement in siege of orgrimar feels like blizzard continuing that joke.

[Rhaktor]

not true, saurfang got his start in serious lore back in original WoW and hasn't slid into being a joke in WoW lore since his original appearance, he got a clear history added to him, a strong personality, family, in other words actual character development. gamon showed up and got a key, which rogues are supposed to take from him, then he gets beaten up alot cause he's attackable so that rogues can take a key from him, then he's joked about because he's attackable and gets beaten up alot so rogues can take a key from him, then he's buffed because he's been joked about for 2 expansions because he's killed alot because he's attackable because rogues needed to take a key from him.... the difference is saurfang got his launch into being a serious lore character early on. gamon got his launch as blizzard perpetuating a running joke, and even his involvement in siege of orgrimar feels like blizzard continuing that joke.

I'm going to have to disagree, my memory is not perfect so if you have any evidence of Saurfang getting actual character development pre wotlk please provide it and I will gladly concede! I can't find anything other than his existence as an enforcer of thralls government (shouting about nefarians head) and his speach at AQ. He's been discussed at Blizzcon and confirmed as a blackrock orc in 2010 and appeared in a few books, but this is all much later. Saurfang existed as a chuck norris style meme for years before getting serious development, as far as I can tell. Please correct me if possible!

[betsyross]

Gamon was never a joke meme. For those calling for him to be Warchief it is because for many years he has risen in strength through much trial. He has had many honorable battles. He has wiped countless Alliance attacks on Orgrimmar. Those who do not respect Gamon are the joke. How Gamon was treated on a server was totally population based. He is not now, nor has he ever been a joke meme. Gamon has been destined for greatness all along. He was made an attackable neutral NPC. You choose how you treat Gamon. Gamon is a respected member of the tavern who has made many friends in our fights against the allies. People who don't like Gamon are sad & pathetic.

Gamon is a hero for Horde minority servers everywhere for consistently wiping alliance raids.



He has earned the respect of the Horde for being a hero.

[Nivena]

I will be sorely disappointed if my hero Saurfang doesn't show up.

[Drilnos]

those aren't his kor'kron, as of tides of war most of the kor'kron are blackrock orcs garrosh let into the horde to be his private army of fanatics. it's the same reason you don't see any of the kor'kron members that aren't orcs anymore despite the fact that there were some.

Most, not all. Being a Blackrock orc is not necessarily synonymous with evil, either. Doomhammer, Eitrigg, Broxigar and both Saurfangs are/were Blackrocks as well. So Saurfang has that working for him too, come to think of it.

[Faroth]

like you said, we have no sound files for vol'jin and thrall, as well as other racial leaders (I didn't see anything for varian or sylvanas yet, but I doubt varian isn't going to just sit in stormwind while his forces attack and kill Garrosh himself). the ptr just came out give it time.

Sylvanas sound files have been found. She's talking a lot about raising the dead, corpses, etc. It's not finished as it was just the voice actress; no "undead voice alteration" echo or anything yet.

No Vol'jin, Varian, or Thrall.

And I've never understood the obsession with Saurfang since AQ.

[Deleted]

Yeah, gotta agree with this. The thing with gamon is, he's meant to be a token joke character, always has been, he's the hordes version of hogger, and no matter what they try to do, such characters are simply something you can't take that seriously..
Except that blizzard are trying to get us to take them seriously, having gamon kill nazgrim? that... just doesn't work blizzard, sorry, but you can't expect people to take something serious in your story if you perpetuate a character as a joke character and then change that at the 11th hour, it doesn't work from a story pov.

I'm pleased to see him get some development beyond just getting a massive damage and HP buff. How does that not work? Just because you've decided he was meant to be a meme, does not make you the authority on the subject.

[vickvinegar]

[QUOTE=betsyross;21597955]Gamon was never a joke meme. For those calling for him to be Warchief it is because for many years he has risen in strength through much trial. He has had many honorable battles. He has wiped countless Alliance attacks on Orgrimmar. Those who do not respect Gamon are the joke. How Gamon was treated on a server was totally population based. He is not now, nor has he ever been a joke meme. Gamon has been destined for greatness all along. He was made an attackable neutral NPC. You choose how you treat Gamon. Gamon is a respected member of the tavern who has made many friends in our fights against the allies. People who don't like Gamon are sad & pathetic.

Gamon is a hero for Horde minority servers everywhere for consistently wiping alliance raids.

He has earned the respect of the Horde for being a hero.[/QUOTE

It's sad and pathetic that you think people who don't like a crappy horde meme (yes that is exactly what he is) are sad and pathetic. It's hilarious how much some of you people are overrating this character, reallly. All you got is "lol he got buffed in cata and wiped tard raids with no tanks", he has no lore, nothing more than a joke like hogger.

[ro9ue]

What importance did Saurfang have in the lore, exactly? Other than being a random NPC that was the bane of alliance made raids to orgimmar in vanilla?

Do the farm questline in Boreon Tundra Horde side.

[Inay]

Where it was said that Gamon will kill Nazgrim? Afaik Gamon's implication to that fight is the optional achievement(Gamon Will Save Us!) for the fight which states following:
"Defeat General Nazgrim in Siege of Orgrimmar on Flexible, Normal, or Heroic difficulty while Gamon is alive and participating in the battle."

So it seems that Gamon will die if not attended and even that he needs to be "pulled" into the fight to participate or something like that.

[Faroth]

Do the farm questline in Boreon Tundra Horde side.

I that's kind of the point, though. Prior to Wrath, Saurfang was a raid wiper in Classic. Then in Silithus he had a single speech. And that was it. That's everything that was in game for Saurfang, yet he became the Chuck Norris of WoW meme. He was still the Chuck Norris of WoW meme when Wrath launched and Blizzard decided to use him.

Why can Saurfang cleave the planet with a butter knife based off a single speech? How does that make him worthwhile to be developed as a character, a prominent and important character, in Wrath?

It doesn't, but Blizzard decided to develop him more and you got the Borean Tundra questline, which added more development and depth to the character.

Now, they decide to do more with another minor character, Gamon, who the players make a joke of more than Blizzard, and people are crying foul that he doesn't deserve to be a heroic character.

Saurfang was a meme before he got any development. It's simply a historic fact. Development is good, it makes him more of a character you can like and be interested in.

So does Gamon not deserve some development? I'm a bit neutral on this. I'm not a Horde player, so I'm not as strongly opinionated on the two characters, but I can see how there are similarities.

[tiporispit]

Vol'jin kills Garrosh... SPOILER ALERT

[ro9ue]

I that's kind of the point, though. Prior to Wrath, Saurfang was a raid wiper in Classic. Then in Silithus he had a single speech. And that was it. That's everything that was in game for Saurfang, yet he became the Chuck Norris of WoW meme. He was still the Chuck Norris of WoW meme when Wrath launched and Blizzard decided to use him.

Why can Saurfang cleave the planet with a butter knife based off a single speech? How does that make him worthwhile to be developed as a character, a prominent and important character, in Wrath?

It doesn't, but Blizzard decided to develop him more and you got the Borean Tundra questline, which added more development and depth to the character.

Now, they decide to do more with another minor character, Gamon, who the players make a joke of more than Blizzard, and people are crying foul that he doesn't deserve to be a heroic character.

Saurfang was a meme before he got any development. It's simply a historic fact. Development is good, it makes him more of a character you can like and be interested in.

So does Gamon not deserve some development? I'm a bit neutral on this. I'm not a Horde player, so I'm not as strongly opinionated on the two characters, but I can see how there are similarities.

I didn't make my comment as a Saurfang vs Gamon thing, more of a direct comment to the poster who didn't know who Saurfang was. I'm assuming he missed Wrath.

In my opinion, it's totally up to Blizzard who they choose to develop. And any NPC can turn into anything. I'm the guy who's been pushing for Rexxar as Warchief and we haven't even seen him since BC.

[Drilnos]

It's sad and pathetic that you think people who don't like a crappy horde meme (yes that is exactly what he is) are sad and pathetic. It's hilarious how much some of you people are overrating this character, reallly. All you got is "lol he got buffed in cata and wiped tard raids with no tanks", he has no lore, nothing more than a joke like hogger.

To be clear, he wasn't implemented as a joke. He was a part of the lowbie rogue class quests, made attackable so he could have his pockets picked. Which of course meant he wound up getting killed. A lot. Like a target dummy that could only take one hit. People would line up to try to get a high score when he respawned. Nothing intentionally funny about that. It's not like he was painted up like a clown, dancing around yelling "Stop trying to hit me and hit me!" He was just an NPC minding his own business.

Then he did get buffed in Cata, and that put a stop to the one-shot train. And it was generally taken as a joke. In Soviet Russia Gamon murders you. But in retrospect, it might very well have been character development. Or an example of how far the city had risen during the redesign. Or a joke. Or all three at once. But what it gave him was a similar story to Nazgrim's. Nazgrim has been around for a long time as well, and every time we see him, he's gotten stronger, in parallel with the players. This made him feel like one of us, an audience surrogate. We went on each new adventure and there he was, with a new rank and bigger shoulderpads than ever.

Excuse me. Getting a little weepy I'm not going to see him in the next one.

Anyway, Gamon has the same story. From nobody to nightmare. Just like all of us. And he's been playing longer than me, so I don't really begrudge him showing up in an Orgrimmar raid. Especially since it wouldn't quite be Orgrimmar without him.

[Darmalus]

Garrosh knew that Saurfang would be coming, so he made sure that Org wasn't wheelchair accessible to thwart him.

Seriously tho, he pretty damn old for an orc. He really shouldn't be on the front lines anymore, a command/teaching position would be better.

[StationaryHawk]

Yeah, gotta agree with this. The thing with gamon is, he's meant to be a token joke character, always has been, he's the hordes version of hogger, and no matter what they try to do, such characters are simply something you can't take that seriously..
Except that blizzard are trying to get us to take them seriously, having gamon kill nazgrim? that... just doesn't work blizzard, sorry, but you can't expect people to take something serious in your story if you perpetuate a character as a joke character and then change that at the 11th hour, it doesn't work from a story pov.

Pretty sure it's more of a humorous fan service thing than an important part of the plot, seeing as it's just for an achievement. General Nazgrim's canon death is most likely the one concerning being slain by the attacking heroes, not Gamon.

like you said, we have no sound files for vol'jin and thrall, as well as other racial leaders (I didn't see anything for varian or sylvanas yet, but I doubt varian isn't going to just sit in stormwind while his forces attack and kill Garrosh himself). the ptr just came out give it time.

We have the sound files for Sylvanas, and the sound files for Jaina and Garrosh seem to imply that Varian and Thrall will both be there.

[tiporispit]

And he's been playing longer than me, so I don't really begrudge him showing up in an Orgrimmar raid.

I heard he cancelled his account for about 3 months in 2007. It's also been suggested that he was played by a bot from 2008-2009. Given those pieces of info, are you SURE you haven't played longer?

[betsyross]

A neutral NPC is by default a Kharma NPC. I have been playing since Vanilla and never once did I feel a need to kill or torture Gamon. The guy is sitting there in the Inn. He is your typical bad ass in a bar guy. Totally Neutral. He sits there praying next to a weapon rack minding his own business. Why would you mess with this guy? He's a peaceful tauren minding his own business until people fuck with him. He's there to help rogues, not to be a punching bag. He was being mistreated in the game, that's why he got buffed up.

But, aren't we all mistreated in this game? Nothing joke about Gamon, the joke is on the people who think he's a joke.

Gamon needs his own friendly Rep bar imo. Make him a daily quest giver so you can become exalted with him imo.

However, considering he has defended Org & wiped raids that killed Garrosh and fought alongside the Horde's greatest Heroes, he is byfar one of the best choices for Warchief.

[Drilnos]

I heard he cancelled his account for about 3 months in 2007. It's also been suggested that he was played by a bot from 2008-2009. Given those pieces of info, are you SURE you haven't played longer?

You know, I was away for about six months during TBC and I didn't really start playing until patch one point stop being such a literalist. It was just poetic license.