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  1. #1
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    Garrosh broke the oath first.

    I agree with Dave Kosak- https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/348906301805445120

    Garrosh is the oathbreaker. He's the one who arranged assassinations on Horde members, used them as cannon fodder, and let his Blackrock thugs beat them down and kill them for not worshipping the ground Garrosh walks on.

    I think even Nazgrim knows it deep down. thats why he doesn't fault the players for rebelling, even if he can't bring himself to.

  2. #2
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Of course he did. This is the guy who used a mana bomb to wipe out a city after he killed his own general for doing the same thing a year before.

    Garrosh breaking a oath, when he thinks 'he is the horde', seems par for course.

    enter the 'urrr, I can't believe they did this to garrosh's character' *falls over flamboyantly* crowd.
    #boycottchina

  3. #3
    "Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

    From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!"
    I don't read anything about "Honor the people of the horde" or "Every member of the Horde is equal".

    Vol'jin and Baine view Garrosh as an Oathbreaker because to them Horde was just more than a political Alliance, Garrosh betrayed those ideals that Thrall, Vol'jin and Cairne forged together, to look after the other Races of the Horde and treat them as equals.

    Garrosh only treated Orcs good and used the rest as Cannon fodder, hence Vol'jin saw his Ideals and people endangered.

    But from a rational standpoint, the rebels clearly go against the following line:
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    They aren't following their Warchief's command, hence they broke the oath.

    It's a tricky question but it's similiar to the Oath of the Wehrmacht, Hitler made himself supreme Commander of the German Forces and the Wehrmacht swore an Oath to follow and protect Hitler, not the German people.

    If you were going against Hitler, you basically broke your oath.

  4. #4
    Why people cannot understand that Garrosh is bad... I mean evil? It's pretty obvious if you're following the lore.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    enter the 'urrr, I can't believe they did this to garrosh's character' *falls over flamboyantly* crowd.
    always so helpful

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 08:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Why people cannot understand that Garrosh is bad... I mean evil? It's pretty obvious if you're following the lore.
    because villian now does not mean always a villian
    With maybe the exception of Old Gods, nothing starts out evil, they become that way
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Priestess Ishanah View Post
    I agree with Dave Kosak- https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/348906301805445120

    Garrosh is the oathbreaker. He's the one who arranged assassinations on Horde members
    Complete bullshit, Vol'jin broke the oath first by continuing to threaten the Warchief, if Garrosh had not acted Vol'jin would have gone through with it. Garrosh was simply smart for making the move first.

  7. #7
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Why people cannot understand that Garrosh is bad... I mean evil? It's pretty obvious if you're following the lore.
    people voted for george bush jr as president.. that sums up how garrosh fandom can exist in this world.

    theres been less reasons to remove someone from there mantle of power then garrosh.
    #boycottchina

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Of course he did. This is the guy who used a mana bomb to wipe out a city after he killed his own general for doing the same thing a year before.

    Garrosh breaking a oath, when he thinks 'he is the horde', seems par for course.

    enter the 'urrr, I can't believe they did this to garrosh's character' *falls over flamboyantly* crowd.
    There's still reasonable difference between a school of noncombatant civilians and a completely tactical military target. The bomb comparison is old and doesn't wash.

    The bombing of the school vs the "drive out or kill every night elf" position he takes in Proudmoore....that's a valid comparison because he's then decided soldier or civilian are irrelevant, get rid of the night elves. But again, he's progressively gone down this path.

  9. #9
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Complete bullshit, Vol'jin broke the oath first by continuing to threaten the Warchief, if Garrosh had not acted Vol'jin would have gone through with it. Garrosh was simply smart for making the move first.
    That wasn't breaking anything. Making a threat is breaking nothing, its just words, nothing more.

    Geez, people really to scrape the bottom of the barrel for anything to defend garrosh with now -_-

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 10:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    There's still reasonable difference between a school of noncombatant civilians and a completely tactical military target. The bomb comparison is old and doesn't wash.

    The bombing of the school vs the "drive out or kill every night elf" position he takes in Proudmoore....that's a valid comparison because he's then decided soldier or civilian are irrelevant, get rid of the night elves. But again, he's progressively gone down this path.
    would you use this argument to them dropping nuclear bombs in the real world?
    #boycottchina

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I don't read anything about "Honor the people of the horde" or "Every member of the Horde is equal".

    Vol'jin and Baine view Garrosh as an Oathbreaker because to them Horde was just more than a political Alliance, Garrosh betrayed those ideals that Thrall, Vol'jin and Cairne forged together, to look after the other Races of the Horde and treat them as equals.

    Garrosh only treated Orcs good and used the rest as Cannon fodder, hence Vol'jin saw his Ideals and people endangered.

    But from a rational standpoint, the rebels clearly go against the following line:


    They aren't following their Warchief's command, hence they broke the oath.

    It's a tricky question but it's similiar to the Oath of the Wehrmacht, Hitler made himself supreme Commander of the German Forces and the Wehrmacht swore an Oath to follow and protect Hitler, not the German people.

    If you were going against Hitler, you basically broke your oath.
    Well technically, we the players never made that oath, the Taunka did.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Of course he did. This is the guy who used a mana bomb to wipe out a city after he killed his own general for doing the same thing a year before.
    Oh boo hoo, he destroyed a city? How many cities were destroyed in Warcraft 1 and 2? Please enlighten me.

    It seems to me that Blizzard is just trying way to hard to convince people that killing Garrosh is the right thing and that he was evil from the start. Well, someone apparently didn't do their jobs properly since Garrosh still has a small fanbase left. If they truly wanted everyone to hate him, they failed horribly.

    It wasn't hard either, they just could've let Garrosh gloat over the whole Stonetalon thing instead of showing honour. Letting characters stay in the grey zone too long doesn't work, we've seen that with Illidan, some people want him resurrected or returned because they don't consider him that evil. Garrosh is the same deal.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    would you use this argument to them dropping nuclear bombs in the real world?
    Unnecessary escalation to spark an emotional response in that comparison.

    More accurately would be firing a cruise missile on a college campus vs. a military installation. Yes, the second makes more sense.

    Let me be clear, I don't defend Garrosh. He's a bad apple, rotten to the core. I just don't think the druid school vs Theramore is a complete opposite that supports those who claim Garrosh has been written bipolar all over the place. Hell, Trassk, YOU once posted a fantastic dissection of how the writing was on the wall since Wrath and Garrosh has progressively gone down this path, getting worse and worse. I actually agree with that perspective; Garrosh has been a progressively developed character and his absolute power corrupted him and as he grew more desperate after each failure, he's become more extreme.

    I feel like Garrosh can be summed up rather simply in that: He is a passionate, dedicated orc with one goal in mind; the betterment of life for his people and above all else, the ends justify his means.

    If only he had used his dedication for good....instead of evil.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Of course he did. This is the guy who used a mana bomb to wipe out a city after he killed his own general for doing the same thing a year before.
    I will say this again as I have seen it as such since reading the book, Garrosh nuking Theramore (while wrong) is totally different from what happened when his General bombed something. The end result is the only thing the same between them, that something went "boom".

    I agree that Nazgrim also knows, his sound files were great. He is probably the most loyal orc in the Horde, that's why even though he probably hated what was happening, he follows the Warchief, and will do his will until he dies.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    That wasn't breaking anything. Making a threat is breaking nothing, its just words, nothing more.
    Just words? I don't think you understand how threats work in the real world either. If you threaten to kill someone you can go to jail. And since the Warcraft universe doesn't have the same political and law system (thank god) the perpetrator just gets a taste of his own medicine.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 09:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    would you use this argument to them dropping nuclear bombs in the real world?
    So the manabomb has nuclear fallout that the wind carries all over Azeroth, resulting in deformed babies and whatnot? Please don't make that comparison because it's ridiculous.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    would you use this argument to them dropping nuclear bombs in the real world?
    is there any difference from dropping one really big bomb or thousands of smaller bombs?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  16. #16
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    Garrosh is a racist, a hypocrite and of course an oath breaker. All the makings of a tyrant that everyone saw coming a mile off. The blood of Theramore and all those who have suffered under his reign is on Thrall's hands just as much for oppointing an unstable, hot-headed leader like him in the first place.
    Butts.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    If only he had used his dedication for good....instead of evil.
    something a poster once said - "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"
    People like Garrosh, Kael, or Arthas, they didnt do the things they did becaise "i like being evil" part of it was because they believed it the right call
    Like Jaina told Medivh - "Arthas is only doing what he believes is right"
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  18. #18
    Taking the blood of the innocent breaks any oath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Kenny View Post
    Avocado is a tropical fruit , south seas expansion confirmed.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    something a poster once said - "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"
    People like Garrosh, Kael, or Arthas, they didnt do the things they did becaise "i like being evil" part of it was because they believed it the right call
    Like Jaina told Medivh - "Arthas is only doing what he believes is right"
    Yep, that's a very old proverb and I think it applies to Garrosh. His blind pursuit of a single goal no matter the consequence or cost is really his downfall. Doesn't help that he got quite the ego over time as well.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Taking the blood of the innocent breaks any oath.
    Yeah, not really. If I make an oath "I swear to take the blood of the innocents" I guarantee you, I didn't break shit.

    I mean really, now Garrosh is an oathbreaker? I mean the player is obviousy, because he swore an oath and goes against it, even if it is a good action. What oath did Garrosh swear to break it?

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