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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by rpdrichard View Post
    Thrall's involvement till patch 4.0 was relatively well handled, and of course his involvement was more than neccesary in cataclysm, but things begin to derail since his appeareance during patch 4.2 trailer in wich he plays no part at all in the assault to the firelands yet he gets also a questchain.

    The problem it's not him being powerful it's him nealy absorbing the plot of almost a whole last half of the expansion. The other carachters you mentioned are not that powerful and have counterweights. Malfurion has Hamuul and their power is nearly the same level. Jaina is nowhere near being the most powerful mage you forget about Khagdar, Rommath, the others members of the six and all the mages blizzard has killed since Antonidas so she can be among the top, she might be a little more powerful than some of them but not by that much; but the most important it's that neither of them is raised to a nearly god-like status and steals a boss kill from the players.
    Uh, considering Jaina just owned Aethas (one of the six), I would guesstimate she's still quite powerful...perhaps strongest living mage on Azeroth would be appropriate, as I'd think Khadgar outclasses her to, probably Rhonin and Krasus also while they were alive. But Khadgar is chilling in Outland in old expansion hell. Still, wouldn't want to go against Antonidas' hand chosen pupil. And like you said, at least they aren't kill stealers like a certain jerk ass named Tirion...

    Also Malfurion is far stronger than Hamuul, 10k+ year old Nelf druid personally trained by Cenarius? And you're saying his student is almost as powerful? >.>

    Up till 5.2, Thrall was fairly balanced in power, but since then he's pretty much Green Jesus. Up till then he always seemed more like a warrior or enhance shammy at best, since he still wore Doomhammer's armor and used the Doomhammer as well.
    Last edited by xezar; 2013-06-29 at 05:33 AM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    Blizzard should learn more from Game of Thrones, where important characters get killed regularly.

    Then we wouldn't have to worry about or put up with fanboyism over any single character >.>
    To be fair, they do that from time to time, but it's always "This guy's evil now - kill him in this new raid!"

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    Just want to make clear that I don't hate the guy, I respect him a lot and I know he has played a heavy hand with most of the Lore of all Blizzard titles. But it's hard to believe that he has not mixed any personal preference because that's kind of where you draw inspiration and creativity when writing the world story.
    It's not about mixing it, it's about you implying that there's no barrier at all. That you found it unlikely that he could like Malfurion more yet give Thrall more screen time is testament to that, despite the linking of solid evidence (albeit after the fact).

    Saying Thrall is Metzen's Mary Sue is well justified and grounded... but for many of these fantasy writers it's simply inevitable.
    Ha, no it's not, on both of these counts.

    I mean no offense, but you don't seem to understand what the term mary sue even means, which is unfortunately common... the term is used by a lot of people in a lot of different ways, the majority of which are not correct. It's not a person's favorite character nor is it entirely just an author insert. It's far more complex than that and Thrall has shown time and time again that he is not that sort of character.

    A mary sue is a character who is perfect to the point of imperfection. A mary sue does not make mistakes, or if he or she did, they never have any real consequences. A mary sue never changes or grows as a character. Sure they'll get more powerful but ultimately they don't really change. As well, any character who disagrees with a mary sue is almost instantly portrayed as a villain.

    The sole fact that Thrall made Garrosh warchief, a decision which has had MASSIVE consequences for two entire expansions should be an extremely strong hint that he's not a mary sue. Mary sues don't fuck up that badly. Ever.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Why is Jaina so powerful?

    Same question different character no real reason other than "cus shut up thats why".
    Could always try reading a book. Those are filled with all kinds of words that explain all kinds of things.
    It's like crossing an intersection. There's shit going on all over the place and you don't panic and act like an idiot then do you?

  5. #65
    Because he wields the ban hammer. Nobody can stop him now!
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DireDragoness View Post
    Because he wields the ban hammer. Nobody can stop him now!
    Yeah the ban hammer THAT COULDN'T STOP MANNORTH what a failure :P

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by xezar View Post
    Uh, considering Jaina just owned Aethas (one of the six), I would guesstimate she's still quite powerful...perhaps strongest living mage on Azeroth would be appropriate, as I'd think Khadgar outclasses her to, probably Rhonin and Krasus also while they were alive. But Khadgar is chilling in Outland in old expansion hell. Still, wouldn't want to go against Antonidas' hand chosen pupil. And like you said, at least they aren't kill stealers like a certain jerk ass named Tirion...

    Also Malfurion is far stronger than Hamuul, 10k+ year old Nelf druid personally trained by Cenarius? And you're saying his student is almost as powerful? >.>

    Up till 5.2, Thrall was fairly balanced in power, but since then he's pretty much Green Jesus. Up till then he always seemed more like a warrior or enhance shammy at best, since he still wore Doomhammer's armor and used the Doomhammer as well.
    In Tides of War, Thrall was able to hold his own for a while against a Focusing-Iris-empowered Jaina while she was trying to kill him. And she was draining the magic out of Thrall during the fight.

    Jaina "owned" Aethas because he didn't fight back at all.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy - View Post
    Yeah the ban hammer THAT COULDN'T STOP MANNORTH what a failure :P
    Pfffff You cannot ban NPCs... They don't have accounts...

  9. #69
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    While writing Thrall's story, a small strand of Metzen's world renowned magical beard, fell upon the script, this caused unforseen circumstances, the strand resonated powerfully with the page, melding itself to thrall's character, Thrall developed a mighty beard of his own, and from this day forward, Thrall become the world shaman, empowered by Metzen's essence and wielder of the fabled black beard, the elemental spirits took notice of this development, and offered Thrall tribute of pork and ale.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    A mary sue is a character who is perfect to the point of imperfection. A mary sue does not make mistakes, or if he or she did, they never have any real consequences. A mary sue never changes or grows as a character. Sure they'll get more powerful but ultimately they don't really change. As well, any character who disagrees with a mary sue is almost instantly portrayed as a villain.
    Mary Sues can have flaws, but they're either reverse-flaws (people who respond to "what are your flaws?" with "i am a perfectionist" in a job interview), are never relevant to the plot, or never affect the events of the plot (lucy's biggest flaw is that she's clumsy, but it doesn't keep her from performing that quadruple bypass!). They're all even integral parts of the Mary Sue, the first of which is a pretty straightforward guide for writing self-absorbed wankery, and the last two are great clues as to attempts to give the character 'obligatory' flaws.

    When a Mary Sue makes a mistake, it never affects them, and if it affects other people, they completely forget who it was that caused the mistake in the first place.

    Which circles about to Thrall. He isn't really affected all that much by Garrosh turning into a knobhead, though the next patch might end with anything from minor lacerations to a minor case of deadness. Fingers crossed it happens, but not expecting it. I don't know whether anyone's actually called Thrall out on his mistake in placing Garrosh on the throne; from all I've seen, nobody has, but it's always likely I've missed something.

    Alternatively it's all just bad writing, in which case the story's just dodged one bullet to hit another, possibly bigger bullet.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    I mean no offense, but you don't seem to understand what the term mary sue even means, which is unfortunately common... the term is used by a lot of people in a lot of different ways, the majority of which are not correct. It's not a person's favorite character nor is it entirely just an author insert. It's far more complex than that and Thrall has shown time and time again that he is not that sort of character.
    No offense, but you don't seem to have read any literature where a Mary Sue is used. They have some flaws, make errors in judgement, etc, specifically inserted by the author to make them a weeny bit more believable or in cases where they are needed to be brought down a notch or two. But none of those flaws stop them from having godlike powers or being the "chosen one".
    LilSaihah above me also explained it very well.

  12. #72
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    Orc Jesus is freed the slaves for our sins, therefore he is awesome?
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  13. #73
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    Thats like asking why Michael Jordan is the best Basketballplayer (at least when I followed NBA in the 90's)
    Did anyone write MJ that strong? Would MJ be a Mary Sue if it would have been a story in a book? If people only would google that term to understand what it means, it would not hurt so much to read some of the arguements.

    Next thing we read is that Ed Stark is a marry sue...
    Last edited by mmoc95d897233e; 2013-06-29 at 07:34 AM.

  14. #74
    I don't like Thrall but calling him mary sue is a bit unfair because judging by feats Malfurion is far more powerful than him. Mal has showed a lot more of ridiculuos power but the point is we almost never see them in game. They are mostly told through books while Thrall have gotten so much screentime in game.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    I wonder why thrall is the prime shaman even though there is nothing to give its powers. It's almost like he was chosen by the elements for some reason.
    Orcs have turned their backs to shamanism.
    Thrall did not even get a huge shaman training. Was he born with it? Was he destined to be?
    Yes he was chosen. Yes the orcs turned their backs on shamanism (not entirely knowingly though), Thrall was the first orc to become a shaman in some rough 30 years. Yes he got A LOT of training, both in game and off game. And yes he was destined to be it - come now, this is all textbook stuff, hardly well kept secrets.

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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    I don't like Thrall but calling him mary sue is a bit unfair because judging by feats Malfurion is far more powerful than him. Mal has showed a lot more of ridiculuos power but the point is we almost never see them in game. They are mostly told through books while Thrall have gotten so much screentime in game.
    Power isn't the only measure of a character's marysueishness(the hell is this word). A Mary Sue is more determined by their position in the plot and how much their special position as author favorite allows them to avoid logical consequence. A character can be powerful without being a Mary Sue; the list of people calling Archimonde, Yoggy or Sargeras Mary Sues is quite short.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    9 times out of 10, those that say it also say they can't be bothered to read the novels to find how the lore works,
    That is blizzard's fault.

    Blizzard needs to do better story telling in World Of Warcraft and not expect people to go out and buy each book and read it. the story telling in WOW is bad I don't care how many quests you read and how many cutscenes you see the story telling in WOW is bad and needs to be done a lot better. But there is the problem if blizzard dose WAY better story telling in WOW then that means less book's will sell.

    /My 2 cents.

    Ontopic: Thrall is so powerful because he is WOW's version of Goku/Ichigo <Insert name of main character of anything here>
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  18. #78
    Because at the end of Wrath he went to Outland to be trained by Aggra and he came out the most powerful shaman ever. That woman is good.

  19. #79
    I had nothing against Thrall till Cata. But then 4.2 came and the firelord attacked Hyjal and we guessed that was a time for druids to shine. Wrong the trailer showed us the great and powerful Thrall and his fears for "his people" WHAT? Other than that, do you remember one of the main features of that patch? "Elemental bonds questline" which was just attending Thrall's weeding. Come on. I had nothing against him but when I have to attend some random (yes, in cata for Alliance characters Thrall was pretty random since just a minute ago he was horde's warchief) character wedding... Contrary to what you may think, adding personal stuff for Thrall was not a good idea, we already had a ton of him, basically everywhere.

    Also none of characters you mentioned had that personal quests. I don't remember us having a tea party with Jaina, gathering stone for Varian's statue of himself or attending Malfurion's wedding (and yea I would like to see that one in game not in yet another book).

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Because at the end of Wrath he went to Outland to be trained by Aggra and he came out the most powerful shaman ever. That woman is good.
    So getting laid made him the most powerful shaman ever?

    What? I'm just asking a question!

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